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So what's worse: being a smoker or being overweight/obese?
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@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
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Instead of smoking, switch to vaping
Hubby and I switched 2 years ago and haven't had a cigarette since. The health gains have been amazing, we both have the lung function of non-smokers now and don't wheeze when we do physical exercise anymore. Nor have we had a cold in 2 years. Vaping is also fully endorsed by 2 surgeons we've spoken to and our GP. Honestly, easiest thing we've ever done. 3 -
My dad has adult onset diabetes and COPD. He got his diet under control and quit smoking years ago. The COPD will kill him.
When I lost significant weight I re-ran my risk factors in to a mortality algorithm and my improved weight added a decade to my life expectancy; a pleasant surprise. I'm a lifetime non-smoker and at this late date I don't intend to turn myself in to an n=1 trial. I'll skip the smoking.
I think another worthwhile question is whether quitting smoking, losing significant weight, or good dental hygiene improves your quality of life more.
Smokers take more regular work breaks.
Too much weight takes a toll on all the joints. Losing mobility is truly miserable.
Bad teeth, well, can be a one way ticket to a heart attack.
n=1...yes...tremendously.0 -
@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
You'd think as more and more states legalize the stuff and more people consume it, we'd see more psychosis in the world. But that doesn't appear to be happening.3 -
@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
Canabis use has continued to increase (doubled actually) however schizophrenia has not increased, it's stayed around 1%.2 -
EbonyDahlia wrote: »Instead of smoking, switch to vaping Hubby and I switched 2 years ago and haven't had a cigarette since. The health gains have been amazing, we both have the lung function of non-smokers now and don't wheeze when we do physical exercise anymore. Nor have we had a cold in 2 years. Vaping is also fully endorsed by 2 surgeons we've spoken to and our GP. Honestly, easiest thing we've ever done.
No self respecting medical professional would endorse vaping, unless as a very poor alternative to actually smoking cigs. Vaping carries with it health risks: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/health-risks-e-cigarettes-emerge11 -
Smoking contributes to more than just one kind of cancer, as well as a crap ton of other non-cancer conditions. (Just like obesity.) But, in addition to the health risks, smokers smell like *kitten* and their smoke lingers (even after they're done) and brings on coughing fits and other respiratory distress in sensitive individuals. And cigarette smoke leaves a disgusting, toxic residue wherever it settles. So glad I live in a state where you can't be up smoking in another person's face in a restaurant. Now that's foul.
Obesity is terrible for one's health, as well, and both contribute massively to overall health care costs, but at least obese persons' behaviors don't directly affect me or my health. (There's this guy at my gym who likes to have a smoke outside and then get on the treadmill and breathe really hard. Smells like he's still exhaling smoke. If he gets on a machine next to me I have to move, because it irritates my airways and the smell is nauseating. And that irritates me, since it wrecks my pace and rhythm. Never had an obese person interrupt my workout. Just sayin'.)1 -
NorthCascades wrote: »@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
You'd think as more and more states legalize the stuff and more people consume it, we'd see more psychosis in the world. But that doesn't appear to be happening.
I expect most of those users were consuming prior to legalisation so I reckon that would skew your argument a little.
You don't have to agree with my opinion - and I'm unsure why you are so sure rates of psychosis are stable, or why you think more people smoke pot now it's legal ... but if you a interested in this topic it's worth looking at links between marijuana use and first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and onset (triggering of predisposition) of other mental health conditions.
I would suggest looking at research from peer reviewed psychiatric journals rather than pro MJ sites.
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Slightly different, marijuana smoked (especially via water bong) is a common precipitant to the development of spontaneous pneumothorax in young men requiring insertion of chest drain and sometimes surgery to repair.
In the pretty small hospital I work in I see about 3-4 of these each year due to this.
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leanjogreen18 wrote: »@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
Canabis use has continued to increase (doubled actually) however schizophrenia has not increased, it's stayed around 1%.
If you look at common triggers for onset of symptoms in the literature you will find marijuana is considered I high risk for people predisposed to this kind of illness.
Obviously not everyone who had a joint will go mad, but in some people it can be catastrophic.
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NorthCascades wrote: »...Apparently obesity related illnesses have been more expensive for our health care system than smoking related ones for many years...
This may be because smoking rates are down and obesity rates are up...
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I would weigh in and say being overweight (obese) IMO, would be potentially more dangerous to your life expectancy than smoking. (Of course, there are several things which factor in..genetics, work, lifestyle, etc.)
I was both..morbidly obese and a smoker. I quit the smokes Sept 28th 2014 Cold Turkey.
March 1st 2016 I began my weight loss journey and am down 75+ pounds to date.
Of course, you can be the perfect weight and a non smoker..and get cancer, or have a heart attack as well...
No need to add more risk to your health, life is short enough as it is..
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NorthCascades wrote: »...Apparently obesity related illnesses have been more expensive for our health care system than smoking related ones for many years...
This may be because smoking rates are down and obesity rates are up...
Other factors include the need for new buildings, rooms, equipment, ambulances, beds etc to accomodate bariatric and super bariatric patients.
Obesity related complications increase length of stay for larger patients. Massive cost.
Labour wise, two nurses can turn a healthy sized person in bed, no problem. An obese patient might be a four person assist.
Etc etc. it goes on ...
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Packerjohn wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »Instead of smoking, switch to vaping Hubby and I switched 2 years ago and haven't had a cigarette since. The health gains have been amazing, we both have the lung function of non-smokers now and don't wheeze when we do physical exercise anymore. Nor have we had a cold in 2 years. Vaping is also fully endorsed by 2 surgeons we've spoken to and our GP. Honestly, easiest thing we've ever done.
No self respecting medical professional would endorse vaping, unless as a very poor alternative to actually smoking cigs. Vaping carries with it health risks: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/health-risks-e-cigarettes-emerge
Lol, that's not science. That's a pretty ignorant article. Have a look at some actual research from the UK before you comment on something you don't understand. I, on the other hand, have chosen to educate myself over the last 2 years - not just do a quick google. But good on you for trying.
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The Canadian Medical Association has come out against all inhalants. Dusting your lungs with anything more than air comes with inherent risks.5
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I would imagine it would be difficult to get a very accurate picture of which is more 'risky.' Not all smokers smoke the same amount, inhale, etc., the same way. Similarly, there's a bunch of ways to become overweight too much fried food, cake, lack of exercise, etc. At best you could compare death rates to prevalence within the population.
Aside from death, I'd also consider quality of life. Either one has a stigma, it can be difficult to play with your kids, etc.
At the end of the day, it almost doesn't matter. For me, smoking would be worse, but I'd want to get rid of either vice.3 -
Not gonna try to convince you. I'm just going off the statistics. And in the US we have a much bigger issue with weight correlated deaths than lung cancer. Again, not condoning smoking, but it's odd to see that something that everyone thinks is really bad, isn't killing us off as much as weight related issues. Again, those are the stats, not my opinion.3rdof7sisters wrote: »Well, seeing both my mother (@ age 67) and my oldest sister (@ age 54) both die from lung related issues, and both being normal weight (actually sister was underweight at time of death), I will opt for smoking being more hazardous to overall health. Meanwhile, none of my sisters or father (who are/were overweight) died from being overweight. Plus smokers put those around them at risk with second hand smoke.
Plus everyone has to eat to survive, no one has to smoke.
BTW OP, my mother (lifelong smoker) emphysema.
Sister, lifelong smoker. Breast cancer @ 36. Brain, lung, adrenal cancer @ 54 died of pneumonia ultimately and no spare fat on her to help her survive longer.
No way will you convince me smoking is better for you than being over weight.
PS OP, have you ever watched a loved one die, struggling for every breath?
I have had several relatives smoke throughout their life and not die from lung cancer, my grandmother being one of them.
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I think the problem here is a common one, you are drawing erroneous conclusions from non equivalent stats. Not everybody smokes, and the percentage is dropping. A much larger proportion are overweight or obese, and the percentage was climbing. Obesity is about 35%, overweight another 33% or thereabouts, while smoking is at about 17.8%. Therefore, off the bat, if they are both equally as dangerous, you should expect the prevalence of diseases "from being overweight" reported to be about 4x as much just by populations affected. You really can't realistically try to insist its only 2x if you only count obesity, since you cant realistically exclude overweight from obese diseases since they are the same diseases, and weight related disease is not always distinguished by amount overweight. So first, it should appear that "weight related" disease is at least 4x more prevalent than smoking related, just by population numbers, if equivalent. So I'm not sure how you come up with that.
Deaths per 100k smoking site you noted is interesting, however again skewed since a huge component here is life expectancy. Since most cancers show up later in life, the lower the life expectancy, the lower the death rate from smoking will be first off, while diabetes is onsetting earlier and earlier, factors like these should distribute diseases showing up from obesity more frequently and smoking diseases less frequently in lower life expectancy countries. Next, there is the issue of correct identification of cause and recording of manner of death, which is less standardized in countries with lower income. Even we have large problems with that here, many are noted to die of "old age" still, when there was some underlying health condition probably or even definitely causing the death. Go to Africa and is there even a doctor around before they are buried? And, if you die from alcoholism, war, malnutrition or something else AND you smoked and had a cancer from it, its going to be the other thing that killed you showing up, not the smoking that was starting to kill you.
Now prison populations by circumstance are going to be on average exercising smokers, which does drop disease rate. Also, you cant always smoke as much as you'd like to in prison, so amounts of tobacco use are probably smaller. In any case, your statement that "Death rates are higher from old age and other illnesses than lung cancer." is true of any general population, so it really can't be construed as any support of your idea either.2 -
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Of course I only have situational evidence, but from that I truly believe a general body with similar levels of stress and other surroundings, one 70+ lbs overweight who never smoked and the other a chronic smoker who exercises regularly and eats very healthy, the person who is overweight will die of their complications with obesity related disease before the smoker dies of cancer.
I had this happen in my own family with two grandmothers. The pack-a-day smoker lived to be almost 90 (with no other lung related diseases, great quality of life until being diagnosed with lung cancer), the obese grandmother didn't live much past 78. The obese grandmother's husband was thin & exercised daily though (also a non smoker), and he lived to 92.
It becomes a lot more murky when you take into consideration that most people are 40 lbs-ish overweight, and many people are "casual" smokers - like less than 6 cigarettes a week. When you compare those two camps, it's probably more likely they'll both die of other causes, not of obesity or lung related diseases simply because they're not overweight "enough" and they don't smoke "enough" for it to be detrimental.2 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
Canabis use has continued to increase (doubled actually) however schizophrenia has not increased, it's stayed around 1%.
If you look at common triggers for onset of symptoms in the literature you will find marijuana is considered I high risk for people predisposed to this kind of illness.
Obviously not everyone who had a joint will go mad, but in some people it can be catastrophic.
What is the percentage risk for those predisposed?
If you are really interested I suggest you access the psychiatric journals and look at specific studies (something I'm not going to do on your behalf lol) ...
This is from the UK royal college of psychiatrists though:
There is now sufficient evidence to show that those who use cannabis particularly at a younger age, such as around the age of 15, have a higher than average risk of developing a psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.
These studies also show that the risk is dose-related. In other words, the more cannabis someone used, the more likely they were to develop a psychotic illness. Furthermore, a study in Australia recently showed that those who used cannabis could develop the illness about 2.70 years earlier than those who did not.
Why should teenagers be particularly vulnerable to the use of cannabis? It is thought that this has something to do with brain development. The brain is still developing in the teenage years – up to the age of around 20, in fact. A massive process of ‘neural pruning’ is going on. This is rather like streamlining a tangled jumble of circuits so they can work more effectively. Any experience, or substance, that affects this process has the potential to produce long-term psychological effects.
It is also known that not everyone who uses cannabis, even at a young age, develops a psychotic illness. The available research shows that those who have a family history of a psychotic illness, or those who have certain characteristics such as schizotypal personality, or possibly have certain types of genes, may increase the risk of developing a psychotic illness following the regular use of strong cannabis.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx?theme=mobile
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