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So what's worse: being a smoker or being overweight/obese?
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Can we agree that we're really comparing morbid obesity and habitual (heavy? More than social anyway) smoking here?
As in your example, I am still classified as obese at 5'4 and 178 pounds but am far from having the issues described in this thread (limited mobility, skin infections, joint problems). Is it a healthy weight for me? No! But I'm not riding the motorized cart around Walmart either.
Iirc, he was referring to people over 70 who are also obese.
If you already knew that, ignore me.
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Iirc, he was referring to people over 70 who are also obese.
If you already knew that, ignore me.
Quite possibly I missed that! Definitely not 70 yet
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3rdof7sisters wrote: »
Seriously? There is no benefit to smoking. NONE.
Plus you are putting others around you at risk because of your habit.
I'm sorry but this is simply not true. You don't have to look far to find studies showing that there are several benefits to smoking, mainly related to mental health issues and weight control, it's just that consensus is that these benefits are outstripped by the risks. More risky than beneficial does not mean completely unbeneficial.
FWIW, I am not a smoker so, no, I'm not just defending my bad habit.
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You're one of the fortunate ones. There have been lots and lots of clients I've consultated who were considered obese on the BMI scale that have dealt with joint issues, mobility issues, sleep apnea issues, osteoarthritis, etc.
Can we agree that we're really comparing morbid obesity and habitual (heavy? More than social anyway) smoking here?
As in your example, I am still classified as obese at 5'4 and 178 pounds but am far from having the issues described in this thread (limited mobility, skin infections, joint problems). Is it a healthy weight for me? No! But I'm not riding the motorized cart around Walmart either.
One doesn't have to be 100lbs overweight to sit on a motorized cart. Nor do they to not have the ability to climb stairs without difficulty.
It will vary from person to person, what issues they deal with when obese.
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I guess the value would depend on whom it affects. People dying close to you suffering from one or the other may have them leaning more to that side.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yep to this. I'd say obesity is the bigger threat, but that's because I've lost one (obese) grandfather from complications to type 2 diabetes, which was caused by his weight, and I'm currently watching my (obese) grandmother slowly and painfully lose her own battle with type 2 (she's had cancer three times, but it's her obesity caused diabetes that will kill her). However, I don't know anyone who's died from complications to smoking.0 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »
I'm sorry but this is simply not true. You don't have to look far to find studies showing that there are several benefits to smoking, mainly related to mental health issues and weight control, it's just that consensus is that these benefits are outstripped by the risks. More risky than beneficial does not mean completely unbeneficial.
FWIW, I am not a smoker so, no, I'm not just defending my bad habit.
And, as mentioned earlier in this thread, smoking does offer protection against ulcerative colitis which is an autoimmune inflammatory bowel disorder. I developed it when I stopped smoking and the medications I have to take to control it are pretty damaging (though not as damaging as smoking,as far as I'm aware)1 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »
I'm sorry but this is simply not true. You don't have to look far to find studies showing that there are several benefits to smoking, mainly related to mental health issues and weight control, it's just that consensus is that these benefits are outstripped by the risks. More risky than beneficial does not mean completely unbeneficial.
FWIW, I am not a smoker so, no, I'm not just defending my bad habit.
You don't have to look far to find tons of industry-sponsored research on just about anything on the Internet. If it has the potential to sell something, it has research sponsors. Follow the money. Just sayin'.0 -
But I don't think what they are saying is incorrect.
You don't have to look far to find tons of industry-sponsored research on just about anything on the Internet. If it has the potential to sell something, it has research sponsors. Follow the money. Just sayin'.
Amphetamines help to speed up your metabolism, heart rate and help to reduce hunger, all benefits to weight loss desired. That's not disputed by hardly any organization of science. But as stated the benefits don't outweigh the risks of what it can do to harm someone.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Clearly, the answer is that aspartame is worst.10
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Quit smoking first. Then, deal with the overweight.0
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Your use of statistics is flawed. If smoking deaths fall below obesity deaths, it's not because smoking is less dangerous but fewer people are smoking in the modern era than are fat in the modern era. You have to look at smoking morbidity/#smokers and obesity morbidity/#obese if you want to compare morbidity or mortality rates between smokers and obese people.
You can't look at smoking morbidity/total population vs. obesity morbidity/total population because the prevalence of each condition in the population differs.
As others have observed, smokers behavior impacts not only their own health but of everyone around them (I hate the way they linger in doorways where smoking indoors is prohibited; when I exit a building I can get blindsided by their leavings and have an asthma attack).2 -
Is this an actual debate?! Like 'would you rather die from...'??!!
I'd say consider both of those things depends on ourselves, one should focus on avoiding both. (Coming from an ex-obese, ex-smoker who plans on living forever!) 3 -
Allterrain_Lady wrote: »Is this an actual debate?! Like 'would you rather die from...'??!!
I'd say consider both of those things depends on ourselves, one should focus on avoiding both. (Coming from an ex-obese, ex-smoker who plans on living forever!)
This is good advice because on a personal level either may kill you, whether or not one kills more or less won't matter then.
But this is the debate forum.
I don't know the statistics but on a personal level I know far more people who have died prematurely from smoking related illness than obesity. I have 5 living aunts who are all in their 70's or 80's and all have been obese for as long as I can remember. Tomorrow one of them will bury her granddaughter who at age 38 died from cancer that began in her lungs. She was a smoker.0 -
Allterrain_Lady wrote: »Is this an actual debate?! Like 'would you rather die from...'??!!
I'd say consider both of those things depends on ourselves, one should focus on avoiding both. (Coming from an ex-obese, ex-smoker who plans on living forever!)
I don't think it's a debate in terms of should you do one or the other...it's an interesting statistical discussion of what is worse for your health, though I think the statistics are a bit skewed because we're comparing total population and the statistics don't seem to take into account that smoking is on the decline and obesity is on the rise....still, it's interesting and nobody is suggesting that either is healthy for you.3 -
Well, there's not a blanket answer as time spent / how much smoking , and time spent/ how much obese are going to affect the outcomes of either. If both are even (smoking for a lifetime or obesity for a lifetime) I think smoking is more likely to have concrete negative outcome (COPD, cardiac disease) than obesity.0
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Not gonna try to convince you. I'm just going off the statistics. And in the US we have a much bigger issue with weight correlated deaths than lung cancer. Again, not condoning smoking, but it's odd to see that something that everyone thinks is really bad, isn't killing us off as much as weight related issues. Again, those are the stats, not my opinion.
I have had several relatives smoke throughout their life and not die from lung cancer, my grandmother being one of them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
True, true. However the % of Obese Americans is sharply higher than the % of smokers (in today's society) and have to take that into account. It takes years of smoking for it to kill you, and in that time the obesity rate has skyrocketed, while the % of Americans who smoke is going in the opposite direction.1 -
@ninerbuff re: medical marijuana ...
I appreciate the anecdotal evidence regarding benefits for some patient cohorts.
I support research into canabinoids and medicine such as looking further into anti epileptic properties, analgesia ect
However, there is proven links between first episode psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental disorders and that in my opinion should not be brushed over.
I think many people need to Google 'marijuana and schizophrenia' as well as 'medical marijuana' for a balanced picture.
Can you provide a source for these links? Just right off the top of my head my immediate thought is that of course there's some correlation between marijuana use and onset of Schizophrenia...first symptoms of schizophrenia are typical in the late teens early 20's, which is the same typical time of first or heavy marijuana use...0 -
mommarnurse wrote: »
Can you provide a source for these links? Just right off the top of my head my immediate thought is that of course there's some correlation between marijuana use and onset of Schizophrenia...first symptoms of schizophrenia are typical in the late teens early 20's, which is the same typical time of first or heavy marijuana use...
I did provide a link in one of my previous posts if you scroll back to the UK college of psychiatry stance on this issue,
ETA: here is the link I posted a few pages back
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx?theme=mobile
If you are interested in further research on this topic I suggest access psychiatric journal articles directly though, which may be more easily accessible via a hospital or univesity research library.
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Smoking smoking smoking - is orse, I wasn't overweight at all and quite fit but a smoker.... after few years I started to have some serious health issues due to my smoking ... I stopped it and became soooo healthier and happier (and richer and you smell nicer too) ... I have been smoke free for 7 years and I d rather put on weight than smoking again...
That guy is cocky and if he does not watched out he might learnt the hard way....0 -
CarShelley wrote: »Smoking smoking smoking - is orse, I wasn't overweight at all and quite fit but a smoker.... after few years I started to have some serious health issues due to my smoking ... I stopped it and became soooo healthier and happier (and richer and you smell nicer too) ... I have been smoke free for 7 years and I d rather put on weight than smoking again...
That guy is cocky and if he does not watched out he might learnt the hard way....
Has anyone disputed that smoking is worse than not smoking or that obesity is worse than maintaining a healthy BMI? The question is whether smoking is the same, better or worse than obesity; you have not addressed that at all in your comment. You suppose it is worse to smoke than to be obese and likely receive a fair bit of reinforcement in your environment for this position because smoking is so demonized that many believe there is utterly no benefit to it whatsoever but there's no way you can really be certain based on your anecdotal experience, having never been obese. Who's to say how your health would have compared if you had been obese instead of a smoker or, worst case scenario, obese and a smoker? This discussion was intended to be based on science not feelings, opinions and suppositions.
Good for you for quitting smoking though. It's not my intent to diminish that in any way and you are most certainly better off for having done so 0 -
I saw two different people in my family (my dad and mother-in-law) die from lung cancer both smoked and one was overweight and the other was not.0
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Some more anecdotal evidence here, I went to my GP as I was being treated for another condition. At the time i was obese and smoking around 10-20 cigarettes per day. In order to help my other condition he told me i needed to lose weight but that as smoking is ultimately more harmful to me at that time, i should quit smoking first then tackle my weight problem. If I were morbidly obese or SUPER-morbidly obese he might have said otherwise i dont know? Dont forget cigarettes increase cholesterol as well, so smoking will be much more harmful to an obese person.0
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So both sets of my grandparents smoked from the time they were probably 13 until their deaths. They all died from old age or diseases not related to their smoking. They all rolled their own cigarettes. I firmly believe it's the chemicals in the filters that make them worse for you rather than just smoking the tobacco. As someone that smoked for a while and has been smoke free for almost two years now ( yay!) I think they are both bad for you, but that obesity will probably get you sooner rather than later like lung cancer, emphysema , etc.1
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VictoriaHazelwood wrote: »So both sets of my grandparents smoked from the time they were probably 13 until their deaths. They all died from old age or diseases not related to their smoking. They all rolled their own cigarettes. I firmly believe it's the chemicals in the filters that make them worse for you rather than just smoking the tobacco. As someone that smoked for a while and has been smoke free for almost two years now ( yay!) I think they are both bad for you, but that obesity will probably get you sooner rather than later like lung cancer, emphysema , etc.
If you read the journals of Lewis and Clark you will discover that even during their time, the bad health effects of tobacco were common knowledge, and the addictive nature of tobacco openly known, but the enjoyment of the habit outweighed all logic for many.2 -
My dad has adult onset diabetes and COPD. He got his diet under control and quit smoking years ago. The COPD will kill him.
When I lost significant weight I re-ran my risk factors in to a mortality algorithm and my improved weight added a decade to my life expectancy; a pleasant surprise. I'm a lifetime non-smoker and at this late date I don't intend to turn myself in to an n=1 trial. I'll skip the smoking.
I think another worthwhile question is whether quitting smoking, losing significant weight, or good dental hygiene improves your quality of life more.
Smokers take more regular work breaks.
Too much weight takes a toll on all the joints. Losing mobility is truly miserable.
Bad teeth, well, can be a one way ticket to a heart attack.
Apparently the bad teeth = heart attack thing has been disproven.0 -
I don't really know which is worse but I do know that the weight loss clinic I go to - the eventual goal of which is bariatric surgery - will not take anyone who smokes. Period.1
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Both are bad. I work in a vascular surgeon's office and see the effects of smoking on a daily basis. Lots of people having strokes due to carotid artery stenosis and can barely walk due to blockage in their legs which can also lead to amputation.0
This discussion has been closed.
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