Fruits = Sugar?
Replies
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »"Fruit is nature's candy" is a common saying but to then use that as the reason why you will not eat fruit makes little logical sense because it shows that you do not really understand so much about nutrition.
Then please enlighten us on how the body processes sugar in a candy bar different than sugar in fruit. I must have missed that class/study/whatever....
Did you miss the bit where fruit has a wide variety of vitamins and minerals which a candy bar doesn't? Did you miss the bit where the high fibre content of most fruit slows down the absorption of sugar into the blood stream?
Here is also an article which describes the differences in the bodies reaction to fructose from fruit in comparison to other sugars.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-fructose
I'm glad you asked.
that does not change the fact that fruit sugar = candy sugar..
way to move the goalposts to other vitamins...4 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
No, but it's what many of the elite in one of the more prominent endurance sports eat and your statement was that most endurance athletes would do better on keto than high carbohydrate. I'm still not sure what that is based on.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Nike is currently running a project to see if a group of elite runners can break the 2-hour marathon "barrier." They selected four runners for this project. I wasn't able to find diet details for all of them, but I imagine any one of them doing keto would be noteworthy enough to call out in coverage of the project. One of them, Eliud Kipchoge, has a diet in which the staples are rice and cornmeal mush.
"In an era of marginal gains, Kipchoge’s approach is distinctly low-tech. He consumes milk from cows that roam the fields near his camp and his meals center around rice or the Kenyan staple of ugali, with an occasional helping of beef."
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/the-simple-life-of-one-of-the-worlds-best-marathoners
http://www.runnersworld.com/marathon/nikes-audacious-plan-break-the-2-hour-marathon-barrier-in-2017
I'm not saying that people doing keto can't do endurance activities, but when you look at what people *actually doing endurance* tend to overwhelmingly choose, it isn't keto. And you have to figure that people in the field -- both amateur and elites -- understand how their bodies perform best.
arent they also testing a new shoe at that event for nike? to see if they can shave time off their previous times?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
No, but it's what many of the elite in one of the more prominent endurance sports eat and your statement was that most endurance athletes would do better on keto than high carbohydrate. I'm still not sure what that is based on.
The more I think about this, and analyze the sources of the information, I think I have figured out what's going on.
In various keto communities, I see a lot of correlation between people going keto, and ending up with better endurance. However, I think there's a bit of a correlation/causation problem happening here. LCHF communities are often full of people who never got too much exercise prior to losing the weight that they did on the diet. This can lead to a bunch of extrapolation that isn't really warranted. As we all know, the body gets better at doing things, the more it does them. Also, just the loss of bodyfat reduces resistance, improves metabolic function, etc.
So, one could conclude, from a very narrow view, that the diet caused this, but if they could have shed the weight via other means, we'd see the same end result. Unfortunately, there isn't even a good way to test this on an individual level, within a reasonable timeframe. Hell, I'd have to regain 90+ lbs. of fat, AND let myself get detrained for about a decade in order to be able to make a viable individual comparison between methods. Even then, the age factor would prevent it from being truly representative.8 -
Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol
Haha that would make my short legs move!!2 -
All the college athletes that I played with our knew, focused on carbs and protein. I didn't know a single LCHF... not to say there isn't some. But if they did, it was mainly in off season. Even the documented cases of LCHF athletes now, tend to carb up pre event.
I believe you. That's partially what I'm saying. Not many have tried it yet because of the high carb dogma that carbs are king. There is not enough proof out there for people to try something new.
I friend of mine from university, probably 10 years before you, was a nationally ranked cyclist. He firmly believed in carbs as king. I remember inviting him over for a steak BBQ and he declined so he could go home and eat a plate of pasta because he was racing in 2 days.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
No, but it's what many of the elite in one of the more prominent endurance sports eat and your statement was that most endurance athletes would do better on keto than high carbohydrate. I'm still not sure what that is based on.
I originally said that a large energy dip is probably due to electrolyte imbalance, and that the anecdotal evidence of (endurance) athletes who have tried keto reported a small to nonexistent dip in energy. This is from Volek after his FASTER study, when a few of the higer carb athletes switched to LCHF after seeing what the ketogenic athletes did. I guess I should have added that. Then there was a lot of responses about carbs for sports is better.
I am basing the benefits of a lCHF diet for endurance athletes on the fact that they will not bonk/hit the wall. That is a symptom of the brain starting to anticipate a glucose shortage so it provides symptoms of exhaustion, light headedness and hunger to get you to stop. That will not happen to a fat adapted athlete. Their brains have adapted to using other fuel, their glucose demands drop, and they will not hit the wall.
Of course if you are a sedentary person who decides to run 2+ hours, you are going to have a whole host of other issues that make you stop, and you will definitely be slow. A fat adapted person is not assured of speed or no injuries. They just won't hit the wall (brain glucose deprivation).0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol
LOL And life style factors.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol
LOL And life style factors.
yeah most likely0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Low carb athletes also have a huge drop out rate through failing to finish.
Extreme and regular endurance athletes also eat a whole load of carbs during competition, unless they are happy to be plodders at the back of the field.
Fuelling for sporting performance is incredibly well studied, it's no coincidence elite athletes eat a whole load of carbs.
You should actually go to an endurance event or partake in one - you can almost smell the sugar.
But you know this how?
I ran long distance until my arthritis made that impossible. My knees started to swell for weeks once I got past 30k. I studied that old science, It largely came from a high carb bias.
I know it partly because I do long distance endurance events (longest was 129 miles last year). Funny enough at all the feeding stations it was carbs/carbs/carbs.
I've also got lots of fuelling/nutrition advice from people who are cutting edge in terms of sports nutrition (British Cycling etc..)
And I'm well read on the subject.
And I've supported an elite athlete on 24hr events - it's all about the carbs despite your wishes that it was otherwise.
The competition in events like cycling is intense and every fraction of a percentage counts. The performance fuel of choice is carbs. Sure if you want to drag around at the back of the field you can fuel yourself differently, personally my ambitions are higher than that. The evidence really is unequivocal.3 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
arent they also testing a new shoe at that event for nike? to see if they can shave time off their previous times?
Off topic but yes they are. I ran with a Nike rep last night who got to test them in a race a few weeks ago. He was adamant that they make a difference. He then went on a "several mile description" of them.
Unfortunately they will be hard to find when Nike releases them to the public. My local store will only get a couple pairs.
For the Breaking 2 project the scientists at Nike are looking at every single aspect of the training including diet. They are even attaching fins on the runners to help with air flow. If there was ANY benefit to low carb they would be pushing for their athletes. They are not.3 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Low carb athletes also have a huge drop out rate through failing to finish.
Extreme and regular endurance athletes also eat a whole load of carbs during competition, unless they are happy to be plodders at the back of the field.
Fuelling for sporting performance is incredibly well studied, it's no coincidence elite athletes eat a whole load of carbs.
You should actually go to an endurance event or partake in one - you can almost smell the sugar.
But you know this how?
I ran long distance until my arthritis made that impossible. My knees started to swell for weeks once I got past 30k. I studied that old science, It largely came from a high carb bias.
I know it partly because I do long distance endurance events (longest was 129 miles last year). Funny enough at all the feeding stations it was carbs/carbs/carbs.
I've also got lots of fuelling/nutrition advice from people who are cutting edge in terms of sports nutrition (British Cycling etc..)
And I'm well read on the subject.
And I've supported an elite athlete on 24hr events - it's all about the carbs despite your wishes that it was otherwise.
The competition in events like cycling is intense and every fraction of a percentage counts. The performance fuel of choice is carbs. Sure if you want to drag around at the back of the field you can fuel yourself differently, personally my ambitions are higher than that. The evidence really is unequivocal.
Don't project. I never said I wish it was all about carbs. Of COURSE it is all carbs at the fueling stations. Almost all the athletes are sugar burners and need those carbs or they wouldn't be able to go on. That's what I've said.
The fat adapted athletes are the ones passing the fueling stations by. And yes, I realize that is the minority. That's what I've been saying. Not many do it. Yet.0 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Low carb athletes also have a huge drop out rate through failing to finish.
Extreme and regular endurance athletes also eat a whole load of carbs during competition, unless they are happy to be plodders at the back of the field.
Fuelling for sporting performance is incredibly well studied, it's no coincidence elite athletes eat a whole load of carbs.
You should actually go to an endurance event or partake in one - you can almost smell the sugar.
But you know this how?
I ran long distance until my arthritis made that impossible. My knees started to swell for weeks once I got past 30k. I studied that old science, It largely came from a high carb bias.
I know it partly because I do long distance endurance events (longest was 129 miles last year). Funny enough at all the feeding stations it was carbs/carbs/carbs.
I've also got lots of fuelling/nutrition advice from people who are cutting edge in terms of sports nutrition (British Cycling etc..)
And I'm well read on the subject.
And I've supported an elite athlete on 24hr events - it's all about the carbs despite your wishes that it was otherwise.
The competition in events like cycling is intense and every fraction of a percentage counts. The performance fuel of choice is carbs. Sure if you want to drag around at the back of the field you can fuel yourself differently, personally my ambitions are higher than that. The evidence really is unequivocal.
Don't project. I never said I wish it was all about carbs. Of COURSE it is all carbs at the fueling stations. Almost all the athletes are sugar burners and need those carbs or they wouldn't be able to go on. That's what I've said.
The fat adapted athletes are the ones passing the fueling stations by. And yes, I realize that is the minority. That's what I've been saying. Not many do it. Yet.
Only in your dreams!! They are the ones getting to the feeding station after it's closed.
Does keto mean you don't need water either by the way? Pretty tough to carry enough water for an all day event.
By the way many carb monsters also work on being fat adapted - the best of both worlds. Partly with long slow sessions, sometimes fasted. Some by having an occasional low carb training sessions. After which they immediately carb up again to replenish glycogen stores.
You may know a lot about a low carb lifestyle but I'm afraid your enthusiasm for keto is running away with you (pun intended).
3 -
This applies to me - I went on Keto 2 years for health benefits, not weight loss. Other than walking I have not exercised for 30 years. For various reasons - I started going to the gym- mainly doing weights. Despite continuing to lose weight i I built up my muscles. On the surface - keto helped with this, but maybe not. My trainer says I got a free newbie ride - generally you can't lose weight an build muscles.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
The more I think about this, and analyze the sources of the information, I think I have figured out what's going on.
In various keto communities, I see a lot of correlation between people going keto, and ending up with better endurance. However, I think there's a bit of a correlation/causation problem happening here. LCHF communities are often full of people who never got too much exercise prior to losing the weight that they did on the diet. This can lead to a bunch of extrapolation that isn't really warranted. As we all know, the body gets better at doing things, the more it does them. Also, just the loss of bodyfat reduces resistance, improves metabolic function, etc.
So, one could conclude, from a very narrow view, that the diet caused this, but if they could have shed the weight via other means, we'd see the same end result. Unfortunately, there isn't even a good way to test this on an individual level, within a reasonable timeframe. Hell, I'd have to regain 90+ lbs. of fat, AND let myself get detrained for about a decade in order to be able to make a viable individual comparison between methods. Even then, the age factor would prevent it from being truly representative.
0 -
Don't they need water? LOL Okay.
http://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/S0026-0495(15)00334-0/abstract
A glucose dependent athlete will not be able to access fat for fat oxidation like a fat adapted athlete can. Sure, they can get better at accessing fat for fuel that those who don't train, but their fat oxidation won't be the same as one who is fat adapted.
Not a benefit for some athletes though. The javelin thrower won't benefit.
0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol
What a thoroughly ignorant and daft statement!0 -
yoandry_delgado7 wrote: »Grapes
Blueberries
Mango
Strawberries
Does eating a lot fruits is bad when it comes to sugar ?
I try to stay within my sugar goal for the day but other than that you are fine.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
And I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that none of those people you've talked to are elite athletes.
Elite athletes are in the know and constantly researching how to become better at their sport. They have coaches, teams, dietitians...
If you think the reason that they're not doing keto is because they just don't know about the wonderful secret being tried by every Tom, Dick and Harry at the New Year's Resolution Gym, I've got some beachfront property in Oklahoma I'd be happy to sell you.
Yes. Um haha?
No I don't know a lot of elite athletes. Well, there was my father who played professional football, was overweight his entire life, and then died young of cancer. I don't think that diet benefited him. Sure he had some energy to play with but was he healthy?
My uncle is LCHF and placed in the master's world championships in rowing. He used to eat "normal" decided to try LCHF after I loaned him Wheat Belly a few years ago. He did more research, implemented it, and never went back.
I think most people won't try LCHF is because they don't want to stop eating carbs - mainly refined carbs. It's why I put off trying it for a year.
Most people won't try a LCHF diet because of the flawed science behind it and studies to support it are limited. They realise that there is nothing evil about carbs and that having a diet rich in complex carbs is part of a balanced and healthy diet. In fact the healthiest nations and the healthiest diets all contain grains, fruit and vegetables in high amounts. They all contain fish and poultry and plant based oils in moderate amounts. They all contain mych smaller amounts of red meat and very little sugar and processed meat. This is why the food pyramid is like it is. For most people this is a healthy way of living s proven time and again by science. When new information comes to light, the pyramid is adjusted accordingly. Not everyone will be best on the diet recommended by world health organisations because we are all different but the vast majority will, including those with insulin resistance.
The Atkins diet has been around for over 60 years. There is nothing new about it. Another 20 years is not going to change the views of the experts who research food and science. If most professional athletes have not adopted this diet for an increase in performance there is a very good reason why. That is because at this top level studies have shown that it will impede their performanxe rather than help it.
You have your be.iefs which are based on gut feel and a bit of anecdotal evidence but not science.5 -
The same science that villified egg yolks for many years0
-
Traveler120 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
It really is that simple. Athletes who switched to LCHF, while taking care of their electrolytes noticed no dip in energy, or a slight dip. Those who didn't take care of their electrolytes are often floored and quit.
I do think explosive sports, like power lifting or 100 m dash, would do well with a carb up. Extreme endurance athletes tend to do better LCHF. The vast majority of athletes in the middle could probably go either way, or mix and match (LCHF with a carb feed during competition).
Kenyans and Ethiopians would have a good laugh at this one. They've been winning marathons and dominated the sport for decades and their typical diet has been studied extensively. It's very high carb ~70%+. And that's not a special runners' diet. It's what the traditional East African diet is like.
Yeah... The traditional East African diet is hardly what most athletes eat.... I think their success may have a bit of a genetic component.
I know a teacher from africa and his kids will tell you they run fast from years of practice due to trying to outrun the lions and other wild animals lol
What a thoroughly ignorant and daft statement!
thats what they told us. Im not joking. but you take it however you want to take it. they said it in joking matter. they are good people. I didnt say it to be ignorant or daft.just sharing what a person from africa told me.2 -
The same science that villified egg yolks for many years
They are learning as they go along and with this learning comes adjustments to dietary recommendations. However it does not change the fact that current dietary recommendations are what the most recent science says is of most benefit for the majority of people. It will change as time goes on and more is known a out our bodies but the theory of LCHF and ketosis has been around long enough for these recommendations to change if there was real substance to the claims made about it. Currently is is rated as one of the unhealthiest diet plans instead. Cutting out a whole food group and almost eliminating another will do that.0 -
What other group?Lillymoo01 wrote: »
Cutting out a whole food group and almost eliminating another will do that.
0 -
What other group?Lillymoo01 wrote: »
Cutting out a whole food group and almost eliminating another will do that.
Fibre maybe?? I'm not arguing the fact, just guessing what she may have meant.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »What other group?Lillymoo01 wrote: »
Cutting out a whole food group and almost eliminating another will do that.
Fibre maybe?? I'm not arguing the fact, just guessing what she may have meant.
Ah, but many low carbers swear they're eating more veggies now on low carb than before. Which really says more about their previous food choices being bad than low carb being awesome.7 -
The fat adapted athletes are the ones passing the fueling stations by. And yes, I realize that is the minority. That's what I've been saying. Not many do it. Yet.
This needs its own thread. A recent article on athletes diet during the Tour de France states that carbs are key.0 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
And I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that none of those people you've talked to are elite athletes.
Elite athletes are in the know and constantly researching how to become better at their sport. They have coaches, teams, dietitians...
If you think the reason that they're not doing keto is because they just don't know about the wonderful secret being tried by every Tom, Dick and Harry at the New Year's Resolution Gym, I've got some beachfront property in Oklahoma I'd be happy to sell you.
Yes. Um haha?
No I don't know a lot of elite athletes. Well, there was my father who played professional football, was overweight his entire life, and then died young of cancer. I don't think that diet benefited him. Sure he had some energy to play with but was he healthy?
My uncle is LCHF and placed in the master's world championships in rowing. He used to eat "normal" decided to try LCHF after I loaned him Wheat Belly a few years ago. He did more research, implemented it, and never went back.
I think most people won't try LCHF is because they don't want to stop eating carbs - mainly refined carbs. It's why I put off trying it for a year.
Most people won't try a LCHF diet because of the flawed science behind it and studies to support it are limited. They realise that there is nothing evil about carbs and that having a diet rich in complex carbs is part of a balanced and healthy diet. In fact the healthiest nations and the healthiest diets all contain grains, fruit and vegetables in high amounts. They all contain fish and poultry and plant based oils in moderate amounts. They all contain mych smaller amounts of red meat and very little sugar and processed meat. This is why the food pyramid is like it is. For most people this is a healthy way of living s proven time and again by science. When new information comes to light, the pyramid is adjusted accordingly. Not everyone will be best on the diet recommended by world health organisations because we are all different but the vast majority will, including those with insulin resistance.
The Atkins diet has been around for over 60 years. There is nothing new about it. Another 20 years is not going to change the views of the experts who research food and science. If most professional athletes have not adopted this diet for an increase in performance there is a very good reason why. That is because at this top level studies have shown that it will impede their performanxe rather than help it.
You have your be.iefs which are based on gut feel and a bit of anecdotal evidence but not science.
But the science behind a higher carb diet has been shown to be flawed and this fact has gained acceptance. In fact the food pyramid is outdated. It was released in the 1970's and is no longer recommended by any government agencies that I know of. I do like the fact that sugar is tiny little sprinkles on top.
That pyramid had a lot of food on it. I can't imagine eating 6-11 servings of bread, cereal, rice and pasta per day, even when I followed the low fat high carb guidelines.
And no one said carbs are evil. Every once in a while someone will write that, "sugar is evil", usually as an over exaggeration of their experiences or after reading pop culture "science", but the vast majority of low carbers eat vegetables and fruits, and some include some grains. I even had a bit of curried rice yesterday. Not much, but enough to assure you that I know I was not eating pure evil. Mmmm, evil...
I based my food decisions on science, medical advice, and my personal experiences after trying it. Not a gut feeling, unless you count the fact that my gut is improved by not eating grains and sugars (at least not often or much).
Dietary needs are going to differ between people. I agree with you there. There is no one size fits all diet - including the food pyramid.1 -
.0
-
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »The fat adapted athletes are the ones passing the fueling stations by. And yes, I realize that is the minority. That's what I've been saying. Not many do it. Yet.
This needs its own thread. A recent article on athletes diet during the Tour de France states that carbs are key.
It does need its own thread. Agreed.
Or you could look at this:
Low-carb diet propelled Chris Froome to three Tour de France titles
Carbs are definitely key for those who are reliant on glucose as their main fuel. I agree with you there.0 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »I have eaten three servings of fruit, including mixes berries, apples, pears, bananas, oranges, strawberries, blueberries just about every day for the last many years, including the last 10 weeks during which I lost 13 lbs. I have no particular health problems, for which I am very grateful.
I understand the areguments behind ultra-low-carb and I have tried it. I just didn't have enough energy while on it. I typically expend 600-700kcals daily on exercise, maybe that's why.
You should still be expending the same amount of calories during exercise while low carb. Just the source changes. Fat instead of sugars/carbs.
Some low carbers notice a very slight drop in energy for a few weeks while the body is fat adapting. It's slight though. If you experienced a large dip in energy, chances are that it was an electrolyte imbalance because you did not increase sodium to make up for the water and electrolytes you were losing.
I would say it depends on the sport... because if it was that simple, you would have a lot more athletes that LCHF in season.
We need to discuss this again in 20 years once the diet is more widely known. Most people who ind out I restrict carbs instantly worry about my vitamins and my starving brain. LOL It may be used more once people get pat the old preconceptions and myths out there.
And I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that none of those people you've talked to are elite athletes.
Elite athletes are in the know and constantly researching how to become better at their sport. They have coaches, teams, dietitians...
If you think the reason that they're not doing keto is because they just don't know about the wonderful secret being tried by every Tom, Dick and Harry at the New Year's Resolution Gym, I've got some beachfront property in Oklahoma I'd be happy to sell you.
Yes. Um haha?
No I don't know a lot of elite athletes. Well, there was my father who played professional football, was overweight his entire life, and then died young of cancer. I don't think that diet benefited him. Sure he had some energy to play with but was he healthy?
My uncle is LCHF and placed in the master's world championships in rowing. He used to eat "normal" decided to try LCHF after I loaned him Wheat Belly a few years ago. He did more research, implemented it, and never went back.
I think most people won't try LCHF is because they don't want to stop eating carbs - mainly refined carbs. It's why I put off trying it for a year.
Most people won't try a LCHF diet because of the flawed science behind it and studies to support it are limited. They realise that there is nothing evil about carbs and that having a diet rich in complex carbs is part of a balanced and healthy diet. In fact the healthiest nations and the healthiest diets all contain grains, fruit and vegetables in high amounts. They all contain fish and poultry and plant based oils in moderate amounts. They all contain mych smaller amounts of red meat and very little sugar and processed meat. This is why the food pyramid is like it is. For most people this is a healthy way of living s proven time and again by science. When new information comes to light, the pyramid is adjusted accordingly. Not everyone will be best on the diet recommended by world health organisations because we are all different but the vast majority will, including those with insulin resistance.
The Atkins diet has been around for over 60 years. There is nothing new about it. Another 20 years is not going to change the views of the experts who research food and science. If most professional athletes have not adopted this diet for an increase in performance there is a very good reason why. That is because at this top level studies have shown that it will impede their performanxe rather than help it.
You have your be.iefs which are based on gut feel and a bit of anecdotal evidence but not science.
But the science behind a higher carb diet has been shown to be flawed and this fact has gained acceptance. In fact the food pyramid is outdated. It was released in the 1970's and is no longer recommended by any government agencies that I know of. I do like the fact that sugar is tiny little sprinkles on top.
That pyramid had a lot of food on it. I can't imagine eating 6-11 servings of bread, cereal, rice and pasta per day, even when I followed the low fat high carb guidelines.
And no one said carbs are evil. Every once in a while someone will write that, "sugar is evil", usually as an over exaggeration of their experiences or after reading pop culture "science", but the vast majority of low carbers eat vegetables and fruits, and some include some grains. I even had a bit of curried rice yesterday. Not much, but enough to assure you that I know I was not eating pure evil. Mmmm, evil...
I based my food decisions on science, medical advice, and my personal experiences after trying it. Not a gut feeling, unless you count the fact that my gut is improved by not eating grains and sugars (at least not often or much).
Dietary needs are going to differ between people. I agree with you there. There is no one size fits all diet - including the food pyramid.
This is the Aussie version,
1
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