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Adrenal Fatigue?
Replies
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If no society of endocrinology agrees this is real, and medical specialties claiming it aren't recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties and Association of American Medical Colleges, then I'm skeptical.
I'm confident to set a challenge to anyone who has poor health, at least gives this a go. Look into Functional Medicine. You have nothing to loose but your poor health.
^^ You actually run the risk that this "functional medic" believes in corticosteroid treatment and you end up with a whole other can of worms from corticosteroid treatment. I'd rather take the fatigue than the other disorders that come with corticosteroids.
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"Adrenal fatigue" is a hoax created by quacks/crackpots (naturopaths, "alternative medicine" practitioners, etc.). The term was coined in 1988 by a chiropractor, but there is no scientific evidence supporting it, nor is it recognized as a valid diagnosis by the medical community. This is supported by the systematic review linked in the OP. Adrenal fatigue is as bogus as "leaky gut syndrome", which is another imaginary condition made up by alternative medicine quacks. Both of them are about as real as catching the measles from Santa Claus.
This x1000...
It's nonsense and there's no evidence to prove it. I can't stand these chiropractors and CAM quacks who present it as fact. You would probably notice how no Medical Doctors, or Medical Scientists talk about it? You know, the people with an actual education that is based upon evidence and proven science. The opposite to these pseudo-scientific hacks. They act like they know what they're talking about and their oversimplification of metabolic and physiological processes appeal to the layman. So from there they can sell their stupid supplement or diet. People look for easy answers to complicated questions. They take advantage of that.1 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »The bolded, exactly, is me with depression. It is not just feeling sad.
But I am very glad that you have found something that has helped.
Are you taking ashwagandha? I took it for awhile and *think* it helped, but there really was no way to measure it. I rely 100% on lifestyle changes now.
I'm happy to hear that you have resolved your depression with lifestyle changes. One of the supplements I take for Adrenal health does contain Ashwagandha in addition to other things.0 -
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VintageFeline wrote: »Out of interest, what supplements were recommended?
A specific supplement for Adrenal Health that I wasn't able to find right away, so I tried a few and found that Adrenal Health by Emerald Laboratories had the most positive impact on the way I felt. As symptoms improved, I have added Magnesium and Vitamin D to get to a place where I feel I'm at optimum health as long as I pay attention to my body.1 -
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ketomaniac wrote: »I think what people refer to as "Adrenal Fatigue" is the over-activation of our Fight or Flight response, which then leads Chronic Systemic Inflammation in the body. This is usually a result of poor adaptation to environmental stressors and malnutrition.
Can you tell me how "Chronic Systemic Inflammation in the body" is diagnosed please?
There are plenty of inflammatory markers that can be tested for - which ones are raised in this condition?
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ketomaniac wrote: »ketomaniac wrote: »I think what people refer to as "Adrenal Fatigue" is the over-activation of our Fight or Flight response, which then leads Chronic Systemic Inflammation in the body. This is usually a result of poor adaptation to environmental stressors and malnutrition.
Can you tell me how "Chronic Systemic Inflammation in the body" is diagnosed please?
There are plenty of inflammatory markers that can be tested for - which ones are raised in this condition?
I was hypothizing that the over activation of the adrenals may lead to hypocortisolism which will in turn will lead to autoimmunity
So an unproven hypothesis then. OK.
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VintageFeline wrote: »Out of interest, what supplements were recommended?
A specific supplement for Adrenal Health that I wasn't able to find right away, so I tried a few and found that Adrenal Health by Emerald Laboratories had the most positive impact on the way I felt. As symptoms improved, I have added Magnesium and Vitamin D to get to a place where I feel I'm at optimum health as long as I pay attention to my body.
I just looked this up. Basically a B vitamins supplement. Plus your vitamin D. Both things people are commonly lacking and nothing to do with the fictitious adrenal fatigue. Not to mention hideously expensive from what I can tell. You could buy the same thing a lot cheaper and not go to a chiropractor who knows nothing about endocrinology.6 -
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I have suppressed adrenals (adrenal insufficiency) due to long term use of prednisolone.That is a thing.
I've seen a lot of stuff about adrenal fatigue but any search I do just seems to throw up the usual suspects. So I'm reserving judgement.0 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »I have suppressed adrenals (adrenal insufficiency) due to long term use of prednisolone.That is a thing.
I've seen a lot of stuff about adrenal fatigue but any search I do just seems to throw up the usual suspects. So I'm reserving judgement.
That stinks. Do you now have to take prednisone /prednisolone forever?1 -
It's the kind of nebulous complaints that we used to get from fibromyalgia patients when phycians were still trying to determine if it was a physical or psychological problem, or perhaps symptoms of a different disease entirely.
Obviously fibromyalgia turned out to be real, but many of the patients that thought they had it, didn't. In a funny twist, there were a number of patients that had been diagnosed with atypical lupus that actually had fibromyalgia.
That said, I'm pretty certain adrenal fatigue is either a load or misdiagnosis of other actual syndromes. Transcriptomics is very capable of detecting the existence of a syndrome like this is supposed to be. Where is the study? All it would take is a blood draw from a good number of supposed affecteds, run microarray or RNAseq and compare expression patterns to healthy. If it is a thing, there should be a detectable difference with some consistency in the affecteds given an allowance for misdiagnosis. That would be enough of a pilot test to warrant further study. But it doesnt exist, which makes me think no one with any kind of legitimacy sees any merit in it.
I'm one of those-- I was originally diagnosed with seronegative lupus. Now they've decided it's fibromyalgia. Some of my symptoms are still unexplained, so I understand the appeal of something like "adrenal fatigue." There's something really powerful about being able to name the thing that's wrong. But I have yet to see any real evidence of adrenal fatigue. I'm open to new evidence, but what's out there currently just isn't convincing. I agree with you that it might just be misdiagnosis of something else.
I hesitate to say nothing is wrong with the people who believe they have it because I remember vividly what it was like in the beginning being diagnosed with fibro and everyone rolling their eyes because that wasn't a real thing and it must be in my head.2 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »It's the kind of nebulous complaints that we used to get from fibromyalgia patients when phycians were still trying to determine if it was a physical or psychological problem, or perhaps symptoms of a different disease entirely.
Obviously fibromyalgia turned out to be real, but many of the patients that thought they had it, didn't. In a funny twist, there were a number of patients that had been diagnosed with atypical lupus that actually had fibromyalgia.
That said, I'm pretty certain adrenal fatigue is either a load or misdiagnosis of other actual syndromes. Transcriptomics is very capable of detecting the existence of a syndrome like this is supposed to be. Where is the study? All it would take is a blood draw from a good number of supposed affecteds, run microarray or RNAseq and compare expression patterns to healthy. If it is a thing, there should be a detectable difference with some consistency in the affecteds given an allowance for misdiagnosis. That would be enough of a pilot test to warrant further study. But it doesnt exist, which makes me think no one with any kind of legitimacy sees any merit in it.
I'm one of those-- I was originally diagnosed with seronegative lupus. Now they've decided it's fibromyalgia. Some of my symptoms are still unexplained, so I understand the appeal of something like "adrenal fatigue." There's something really powerful about being able to name the thing that's wrong. But I have yet to see any real evidence of adrenal fatigue. I'm open to new evidence, but what's out there currently just isn't convincing. I agree with you that it might just be misdiagnosis of something else.
I hesitate to say nothing is wrong with the people who believe they have it because I remember vividly what it was like in the beginning being diagnosed with fibro and everyone rolling their eyes because that wasn't a real thing and it must be in my head.
I appreciate that scientific medical knowledge is, thankfully, progressing all the time, and how affirming/relieving it must be to have a specific set of symptoms actually named by the medical community as a valid ailment. If for no other reasons than it gives the ailment sufferers the power of knowing that it wasn't just all in their heads, and paves the way for additional research which will hopefully lead to appropriate medications and maybe, eventually, even a cure.
My concern with "Adrenal Fatigue" is that it *does* appear to have been investigated by the scientific medical community with an eye towards perhaps legitimizing it in the same manner as fibromyalgia was, but that there appears to be no current medical basis for this claim. And in lieu of that occurring - and because of the rather vague and all-encompassing 'symptoms' - I fear that many people will self-diagnose as having it, which may either delay or prevent proper medical intervention which may have uncovered a legitimate medical reason for their symptoms.
tl;dr - The more press Adrenal Fatigue gets, the higher the possibility that people with actual medically treatable conditions (hypothyroidism immediately springs to mind) will self-diagnose as having AF and, as a result, forego proper medical testing and diagnosis, something which could prove extremely detrimental to their long-term health.
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Why does it matter what you think? Facts win - opinions are common.....
Much of science started with a thought...an opinion...even a debate.
Also...
What at one time what we thought were facts have since been proven to be different.
For example...
At one time we thought that it was "fact" that a low fat diet was optimal. We now know that to not always be the case.
"Facts" change as we learn new information. I dare say that most of that new information started with debates among scientists and researchers.
Science begins with a hypothesis. This is tested under criteria to prove or disprove the hypothesis. These tests are repeated to prove that the results are consistent and can be reproduced. The hypothesis is then amended based on analysis to provide greater accuracy.
This is the key difference in application of the scientific method and woo.
Adrenal fatigue on the other hand is a collection of non-specific symptoms - here is one example of the "symptoms":
Do you have difficulty awakening from sleep in the morning, often hitting the snooze button multiple times?
Do you need coffee to get going in the morning?
Have you recently gained weight, especially around the middle?
Do you feel like you get every cold and flu bug that is going around, that your immune system is shot?
Do you have more difficulty dealing with stress and deadline pressure than you used to?
Do you have a lack of interest in sex?
Do you frequently feel lightheaded upon standing quickly?
Do you struggle with poor memory or “brain fog”?
Do you feel especially tired in the mornings and afternoons between 3-5pm?
Do you feel the need to snack or eat frequently to maintain a normal blood sugar?
Do you crave salty foods?
Do you feel extremely tired between 7-10pm but get a second wind if you stay up later?
If you are female do you struggle with PMS: heavy bleeding, moodiness, fatigue during menstrual cycle? If you are male, do you feel like you stamina, energy and ability to maintain muscle are decreased?
Do you frequently have pain in the upper back or neck with no apparent reason?
Do you notice improvement of symptoms stress levels are lower, such as during a vacation or time away from work?
If you answer yes to 10 or more of these then you too can blame bad lifestyle choices on a non-existent condition that can't be treated with medicine, but luckily the pseudo-medicine quack community has remedies on standby...
Can I invent diseases as well? I'll call it Firstworlditis - the only cure is trading places with someone in the third world. This hard slap of reality is the only known cure for this malady.
...and no - you cannot trade places again.8 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »I have suppressed adrenals (adrenal insufficiency) due to long term use of prednisolone.That is a thing.
I've seen a lot of stuff about adrenal fatigue but any search I do just seems to throw up the usual suspects. So I'm reserving judgement.
That stinks. Do you now have to take prednisone /prednisolone forever?
Pretty much, yeah - a small dose.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »It's the kind of nebulous complaints that we used to get from fibromyalgia patients when phycians were still trying to determine if it was a physical or psychological problem, or perhaps symptoms of a different disease entirely.
Obviously fibromyalgia turned out to be real, but many of the patients that thought they had it, didn't. In a funny twist, there were a number of patients that had been diagnosed with atypical lupus that actually had fibromyalgia.
That said, I'm pretty certain adrenal fatigue is either a load or misdiagnosis of other actual syndromes. Transcriptomics is very capable of detecting the existence of a syndrome like this is supposed to be. Where is the study? All it would take is a blood draw from a good number of supposed affecteds, run microarray or RNAseq and compare expression patterns to healthy. If it is a thing, there should be a detectable difference with some consistency in the affecteds given an allowance for misdiagnosis. That would be enough of a pilot test to warrant further study. But it doesnt exist, which makes me think no one with any kind of legitimacy sees any merit in it.
I'm one of those-- I was originally diagnosed with seronegative lupus. Now they've decided it's fibromyalgia. Some of my symptoms are still unexplained, so I understand the appeal of something like "adrenal fatigue." There's something really powerful about being able to name the thing that's wrong. But I have yet to see any real evidence of adrenal fatigue. I'm open to new evidence, but what's out there currently just isn't convincing. I agree with you that it might just be misdiagnosis of something else.
I hesitate to say nothing is wrong with the people who believe they have it because I remember vividly what it was like in the beginning being diagnosed with fibro and everyone rolling their eyes because that wasn't a real thing and it must be in my head.
I appreciate that scientific medical knowledge is, thankfully, progressing all the time, and how affirming/relieving it must be to have a specific set of symptoms actually named by the medical community as a valid ailment. If for no other reasons than it gives the ailment sufferers the power of knowing that it wasn't just all in their heads, and paves the way for additional research which will hopefully lead to appropriate medications and maybe, eventually, even a cure.
My concern with "Adrenal Fatigue" is that it *does* appear to have been investigated by the scientific medical community with an eye towards perhaps legitimizing it in the same manner as fibromyalgia was, but that there appears to be no current medical basis for this claim. And in lieu of that occurring - and because of the rather vague and all-encompassing 'symptoms' - I fear that many people will self-diagnose as having it, which may either delay or prevent proper medical intervention which may have uncovered a legitimate medical reason for their symptoms.
tl;dr - The more press Adrenal Fatigue gets, the higher the possibility that people with actual medically treatable conditions (hypothyroidism immediately springs to mind) will self-diagnose as having AF and, as a result, forego proper medical testing and diagnosis, something which could prove extremely detrimental to their long-term health.
I completely agree with you. Sorry if I didn't make that clear-- it was early!
I only intended to say that I hesitate to say that nothing is wrong with those people. I just don't believe that adrenal fatigue is it. 1 -
I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.0
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »It's the kind of nebulous complaints that we used to get from fibromyalgia patients when phycians were still trying to determine if it was a physical or psychological problem, or perhaps symptoms of a different disease entirely.
Obviously fibromyalgia turned out to be real, but many of the patients that thought they had it, didn't. In a funny twist, there were a number of patients that had been diagnosed with atypical lupus that actually had fibromyalgia.
That said, I'm pretty certain adrenal fatigue is either a load or misdiagnosis of other actual syndromes. Transcriptomics is very capable of detecting the existence of a syndrome like this is supposed to be. Where is the study? All it would take is a blood draw from a good number of supposed affecteds, run microarray or RNAseq and compare expression patterns to healthy. If it is a thing, there should be a detectable difference with some consistency in the affecteds given an allowance for misdiagnosis. That would be enough of a pilot test to warrant further study. But it doesnt exist, which makes me think no one with any kind of legitimacy sees any merit in it.
I'm one of those-- I was originally diagnosed with seronegative lupus. Now they've decided it's fibromyalgia. Some of my symptoms are still unexplained, so I understand the appeal of something like "adrenal fatigue." There's something really powerful about being able to name the thing that's wrong. But I have yet to see any real evidence of adrenal fatigue. I'm open to new evidence, but what's out there currently just isn't convincing. I agree with you that it might just be misdiagnosis of something else.
I hesitate to say nothing is wrong with the people who believe they have it because I remember vividly what it was like in the beginning being diagnosed with fibro and everyone rolling their eyes because that wasn't a real thing and it must be in my head.
I appreciate that scientific medical knowledge is, thankfully, progressing all the time, and how affirming/relieving it must be to have a specific set of symptoms actually named by the medical community as a valid ailment. If for no other reasons than it gives the ailment sufferers the power of knowing that it wasn't just all in their heads, and paves the way for additional research which will hopefully lead to appropriate medications and maybe, eventually, even a cure.
My concern with "Adrenal Fatigue" is that it *does* appear to have been investigated by the scientific medical community with an eye towards perhaps legitimizing it in the same manner as fibromyalgia was, but that there appears to be no current medical basis for this claim. And in lieu of that occurring - and because of the rather vague and all-encompassing 'symptoms' - I fear that many people will self-diagnose as having it, which may either delay or prevent proper medical intervention which may have uncovered a legitimate medical reason for their symptoms.
tl;dr - The more press Adrenal Fatigue gets, the higher the possibility that people with actual medically treatable conditions (hypothyroidism immediately springs to mind) will self-diagnose as having AF and, as a result, forego proper medical testing and diagnosis, something which could prove extremely detrimental to their long-term health.
I completely agree with you. Sorry if I didn't make that clear-- it was early! I only intended to say that I hesitate to say that nothing is wrong with those people. I just don't believe that adrenal fatigue is it.
We're entirely on the same page. 0 -
I don't know a whole lot about it but I tend to err on the where there's smoke there's fire side of things. I'm open to new information.1
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Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?2 -
Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
I hate to break this to you, but there is nothing in saliva that could suggest that you have an adrenal deficiency.
I agree with @snickerscharlie that these symptoms are likely linked to the diagnosis of Hashimoto's hypothyroidism.
Note that the Board of Endocrinologists put out the following public notice in response:
“Adrenal fatigue” is not a real medical condition. There are no scientific facts to support the theory that long-term mental, emotional, or physical stress drains the adrenal glands and causes many common symptoms.1 -
My doctor advised me.snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?
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Michellelynn219 wrote: »
My doctor advised me.snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?
Is this a medical doctor? Who had you doing the saliva testing?0 -
Define "doctor." Primary care (MD)? Chiropractor? Naturopath? Endocrinologist? Other?0
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Michellelynn219 wrote: »
My doctor advised me.snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?
I was dx with Hashi's 12 years ago. I am on Compound T3/T4 meds. I fired my endo, he had no knowledge. I love my new doctor, she has Hashi's as well. Anyway, back to Adrenals...One of my main issues was broken sleep. Since I started taking DHEA, I have my sleep signal back, ie, yawning, and I sleep through the night. I was trying to find my test results but I can't. I did the hormone testing 2 years ago.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »
My doctor advised me.snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?
Is this a medical doctor? Who had you doing the saliva testing?
Primary who is a specialist in Thyroid disease. I found my doctor through Mary Shomon Author of Stop the Thyroid Madness.0 -
Michellelynn219 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »
My doctor advised me.snickerscharlie wrote: »Michellelynn219 wrote: »I did saliva testing to find out if I had adrenal fatigue. I take a low dose of DHEA. I also have Hasmoto's.
Since adrenal fatigue is not a diagnosable condition, (yes, many less-than-reputable labs will profit for 'finding' it) it appears you may have been taken advantage of.
Hashimoto's, btw, has many symptoms that are identical to adrenal fatigue. I know this, because I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's by an endocrinologist and have been taking medication for years now. I surmise that your adrenal fatigue symptoms are more likely tied into your Hashi's.
Edited to add: Who advised you to take DHEA?
Is this a medical doctor? Who had you doing the saliva testing?
Primary who is a specialist in Thyroid disease. I found my doctor through Mary Shomon Author of Stop the Thyroid Madness.
You still haven't answered the question. MD? DO? Chiropractor? After all, the person who established the College of Functional Medicine which devised these tests was a psychologist.0 -
The glands in the endocrine system communicate with each other in feed back loops. If there is insufficiency in the pituitary and or the adrenals these will drain the thyroid. Medical free access papers.0
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