Lose weight while building muscle?

Megan_V415

I wasn't really sure which forum to ask this in as it is kind of a two category question.

I'm ashamed to say that I used to be a fairly 145 lbs and with my crazy school schedule and working full time I fell off that wagon pretty fast and I am now up to 170 lbs and not very fit. I work an IT-Networking job so I sit/stand at my desk while at work and I have 17 credits this semester. My time during the week is extremely limited (however after this semester will have plenty of time during my last two semesters), I have time for a workout once and a while during the week if one of my classes gets done early otherwise I have to go straight to work after class and I have all the time in the world on the weekend. I'm not as concerned about seeing my numbers drop quickly as I am about trying to get fit and build muscle. It it possible for me to gain muscle while losing weight?

When using calculators it says my maintenance calories are about 1672 a day.

If I want to build muscle should I just keep that 1672 calories, workout, and increase protein intake? I know that I probably consumed more than that a day. I just hopped back on dieting a week ago and at 1200 calories a day with no exercise I have lost about 5 lbs. I realize you have to eat more to gain muscle mass but I know I need to cut down weight as well so I'm not sure how to go about incorporating both.

So I guess I am wondering how I should base my calories and how many times/hours I have to get myself to the gym for weight training in a week to lose fat and gain muscle?

psuLemon

Can you build muscle in a deficit, yes.... but not a lot of muscle and it definitely requires dedication passed working out once and awhile. More likely, you have the ability to sustain muscle if you are doing some resistance training and eating adequate protein (~120g for you). I'd probably start you at 1300 calories and work on weight loss. If you can consistently exercise, i'd probably increase calories slightly.

I would try to get to the gym at least 3x a week for resistance training. A 3 day full body routine would be ideal. You can start with a body weight or free weight program depending on your personal preference and your goals for your body.

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

deannalfisher

maybe look at the recomp thread as well - eating at maintainance/close to and strength training

psuLemon

deannalfisher wrote: »

maybe look at the recomp thread as well - eating at maintainance/close to and strength training

At 170 lbs, I recomp is probably not the best ideal, especially after gaining 25 lbs.

deannalfisher

I'm basing on my experience with my RD - they put me on what they refer to as performance macros - it is slightly under maintenance and I'm down 10lbs - maybe recomp was the wrong word to use

richardgavel

Recomposition only makes sense when you're already at Target weight. I'd focus on weight loss combined with maintaining lean mass, not adding more. You'll see results more quickly. Once at lower weight then look into recomposition

psuLemon

deannalfisher wrote: »

I'm basing on my experience with my RD - they put me on what they refer to as performance macros - it is slightly under maintenance and I'm down 10lbs - maybe recomp was the wrong word to use

Yea, that would still be a cut. I suspect they are minimizing your deficit to optimize your performance gains and modifying macros to support things like recovery and energy levels.

deannalfisher

psuLemon wrote: »

deannalfisher wrote: »

I'm basing on my experience with my RD - they put me on what they refer to as performance macros - it is slightly under maintenance and I'm down 10lbs - maybe recomp was the wrong word to use

Yea, that would still be a cut. I suspect they are minimizing your deficit to optimize your performance gains and modifying macros to support things like recovery and energy levels.

possibly - its a very minor one (I avg close to 2250 a day - but on a cycle) and down 10lbs

yondaime8

In this video Jeff Cavaliere goes into details about building muscle and losing weight.
https://youtu.be/Bz3AG-oCXTE

Basically, losing weight is a direct result of a calorie deficit. Building muscle on the other hand isn't necessarily related to an excess of calories. What is to be considered is the Postive Nitrogen Balance.

JeromeBarry1

@yondaime8 , that video is accurate in every detail.

TheRambler

@yondaime8 , that was a great video. I would love to read up on more detail. I cannot imagine a diet of only protein shakes, though. It's a bit extreme.

Jockamo319

I started out in a similar situation -- more than 30 lbs overweight with muscles atrophied from inactivity. I'm eating at 10% below maintenance (paying attention to macros and hitting about 30% protein), with a lifting program that's reasonable enough that I can stick with it. I'm still making strength gains while slowly losing weight. After just a few months, the results are very noticeable in the mirror. I may or may not actually be gaining muscle mass while losing weight, but honestly I could care less. It looks like I am, and I feel a hundred percent better.

hanibunni

I'm lifting 3x per week, and doing light cardio (walking etc) 2x per week. I have been steadily gaining strength and also losing between .5kg to 1kg each week. Last week I added an additional 10kg onto my squats/deadlifts while eating around 1600 calories per day. My macros are 35/30/35.

LonsyBoy

I ended up dropping fat and adding muscle at the exact same time, even on lower than normal calories

richardgavel

LonsyBoy wrote: »

I ended up dropping fat and adding muscle at the exact same time, even on lower than normal calories

By what measurements do you know you achieved both fat loss and muscle gain simultaneously?

ndj1979

TheRambler wrote: »

@yondaime8 , that was a great video. I would love to read up on more detail. I cannot imagine a diet of only protein shakes, though. It's a bit extreme.

that video is a load of BS...

yondaime8

ndj1979 wrote: »

that video is a load of BS...

Care to expand about that? I mean Jeff is a certified famous trainer with masters degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine, I've been following his channel for long and have been able to get really good results.

ndj1979

yondaime8 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

that video is a load of BS...

Care to expand about that? I mean Jeff is a certified famous trainer with masters degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine, I've been following his channel for long and have been able to get really good results.

if you want to build appreciable mass you need a surplus of calories. nitrogen balance and other woo woo bro science terms have nothing to do with it...and I love how he says you need the right protein and need to supplement and then a website for a supplement magically pops up...

TR0berts

yondaime8 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

that video is a load of BS...

Care to expand about that? I mean Jeff is a certified famous trainer with masters degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine, I've been following his channel for long and have been able to get really good results.

The "study" he talked about - according to the video, and exactly what he said - had all 27% BF guys.

That's very overweight - almost definitely obese guys. There was no mention of how much they had trained previously. So, that right there are 2 red flags. Probably new to training and quite overweight. Yes, those are the types of people that are more likely to put on muscle while cutting.

Red Flag #3: How big a cut did each group do? That matters.

Red Flag #4: The ones that didn't put on any LBM didn't train and didn't take in extra protein. No *kitten*. The ones that did put on some LBM trained and (apparently) consumed more protein.

Red Flag #5: He kept talking about lean muscle mass. I truly question if it was LMM, or LBM - there's a considerable difference. I'd be willing to bet it was a little LMM, but more LBM. I also question if he knows (or tells his audience) the difference between LMM and LBM.

Yellow Flag #1: He thinks training for over 1 hour is overtraining? It sometimes takes an hour just for warmups on squat day. It also matters how much rest you're taking. I can only guess that this guy is weak AF.

Yellow Flag #2: Someone supposedly as knowledgeable as he shouldn't have any real issues getting adequate nutrition without supplementing, yet he says that he can't because he's on the go too much, blahblahblah.


It feels like there was another thing(s) that bothered me, but I can't remember it and I'm not planning on watching that silliness again.

ndj1979

TR0berts wrote: »

yondaime8 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

that video is a load of BS...

Care to expand about that? I mean Jeff is a certified famous trainer with masters degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine, I've been following his channel for long and have been able to get really good results.

The "study" he talked about - according to the video, and exactly what he said - had all 27% BF guys.

That's very overweight - almost definitely obese guys. There was no mention of how much they had trained previously. So, that right there are 2 red flags. Probably new to training and quite overweight. Yes, those are the types of people that are more likely to put on muscle while cutting.

Red Flag #3: How big a cut did each group do? That matters.

Red Flag #4: The ones that didn't put on any LBM didn't train and didn't take in extra protein. No *kitten*. The ones that did put on some LBM trained and (apparently) consumed more protein.

Red Flag #5: He kept talking about lean muscle mass. I truly question if it was LMM, or LBM - there's a considerable difference. I'd be willing to bet it was a little LMM, but more LBM. I also question if he knows (or tells his audience) the difference between LMM and LBM.

Yellow Flag #1: He thinks training for over 1 hour is overtraining? It sometimes takes an hour just for warmups on squat day. It also matters how much rest you're taking. I can only guess that this guy is weak AF.

Yellow Flag #2: Someone supposedly as knowledgeable as he shouldn't have any real issues getting adequate nutrition without supplementing, yet he says that he can't because he's on the go too much, blahblahblah.


It feels like there was another thing(s) that bothered me, but I can't remember it and I'm not planning on watching that silliness again.

you have more patience than I do ..I got to the supplement part where a website for supplements pop up and that was it for me.

psuLemon

yondaime8 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

that video is a load of BS...

Care to expand about that? I mean Jeff is a certified famous trainer with masters degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine, I've been following his channel for long and have been able to get really good results.

I like a lot of his stretching and many of his videos on form, but he tries to sell his supps too much and pulls the same crap of other parts of industry (i.e., his creatine supplement).

LonsyBoy

richardgavel wrote: »

LonsyBoy wrote: »

I ended up dropping fat and adding muscle at the exact same time, even on lower than normal calories

By what measurements do you know you achieved both fat loss and muscle gain simultaneously?

- 45kg reduction on the scales
- Waist line down from 120cm to 90cm (101cm hip bones)
- 20" Arms
- 32" Quads
- 21" Calves
+ Dexta Scans

but you know the usual veins showing and fat dissapearing is a better indication of fat loss and muscle increase

LonsyBoy

Fat is a muscle energy source so larger guys will make better muscle gains from it even with a lower calorie intake, the only supplements that work are not to be mentioned either

trigden1991

LonsyBoy wrote: »

Fat is a muscle energy source so larger guys will make better muscle gains from it even with a lower calorie intake, the only supplements that work are not to be mentioned either

We get it; you take PED's. Feel free to mention it in even more threads if you feel the need to.

ndj1979

LonsyBoy wrote: »

Fat is a muscle energy source so larger guys will make better muscle gains from it even with a lower calorie intake, the only supplements that work are not to be mentioned either

thanks, but I don't want man boobs or testicular shrinkage...

Gallowmere1984

ndj1979 wrote: »

LonsyBoy wrote: »

Fat is a muscle energy source so larger guys will make better muscle gains from it even with a lower calorie intake, the only supplements that work are not to be mentioned either

thanks, but I don't want man boobs or testicular shrinkage...

As with most any other drug/hormone, you usually only see the nastier sides with excessive use, improper dosage, or not following proper protocol for end of use. Of course, there are some people who just get outright screwed in the genetic lotto and react poorly straight out of the gate. However, considering the number of people that have been on gear, if the sides were a given, we'd see them a lot more.

yondaime8

i dunno about you guys, but I started my fat losing journey a few months back, been losing fat and gaining muscle ever since.
I used no supplement, just counted my calories and specifically designed my macronutrients composition to have 40% protein.
this is before:

this is now:

those pictures are 7 months apart btw.
Of course, I still got plenty of fat to lose and plenty of muscle to gain
EDIT:
I recently purchased one of those connected balances that give you an idea of your body composition:
here's the fat mass % evolution:

and this is the muscle mass %:

psuLemon

yondaime8 wrote: »

i dunno about you guys, but I started my fat losing journey a few months back, been losing fat and gaining muscle ever since.
I used no supplement, just counted my calories and specifically designed my macronutrients composition to have 40% protein.
this is before:

this is now:

those pictures are 7 months apart btw.
Of course, I still got plenty of fat to lose and plenty of muscle to gain
EDIT:
I recently purchased one of those connected balances that give you an idea of your body composition:
here's the fat mass % evolution:

and this is the muscle mass %:

While your results are nice, those bioimpadence machines can be very inaccurate and not a true depiction if you actually gained muscle. Also, take into consideration those tools measure lean body mass, not muscle. LBM is everything besides fat.

Ultimately, doesn't really matter if you like your results.

yondaime8

psuLemon wrote: »

While your results are nice, those bioimpadence machines can be very inaccurate and not a true depiction if you actually gained muscle. Also, take into consideration those tools measure lean body mass, not muscle. LBM is everything besides fat.

Ultimately, doesn't really matter if you like your results.

Actually it delivers 4 different percentages every time: fat, muscle, lean mass and bone mass. But I agree, I don't take the results as sacred or absolutely accurate, I only use them as trend indication.
Ultimately, my point is, gaining muscle while losing fat is possible, given proper nutrition and workout, it's not sufficient to work hard, but you also need to work smart

ndj1979

yondaime8 wrote: »

i dunno about you guys, but I started my fat losing journey a few months back, been losing fat and gaining muscle ever since.
I used no supplement, just counted my calories and specifically designed my macronutrients composition to have 40% protein.
this is before:

this is now:

those pictures are 7 months apart btw.
Of course, I still got plenty of fat to lose and plenty of muscle to gain
EDIT:
I recently purchased one of those connected balances that give you an idea of your body composition:
here's the fat mass % evolution:

and this is the muscle mass %:

you lost body fat which allowed existing muscle to show more + newbie gains, which no one is saying is not possible. What we are saying is that in the long term you cannot lose body fat and put on new mass in a calorie deficit..

yondaime8

ndj1979 wrote: »

you lost body fat which allowed existing muscle to show more + newbie gains, which no one is saying is not possible. What we are saying is that in the long term you cannot lose body fat and put on new mass in a calorie deficit..

So true! However I doubt OP is asking about the latter