Vegan and fat
Replies
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cushman5279 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cushman5279 wrote: »I calculated my macros on IIFYM and then manually put them here on MFP. I did a vegan challenge for 30 days and avoided all processed vegan foods and vegan replacements foods. It was wonderful and I definitely lost weight but ended up with severe anemia by the end. Being carb heavy is absolutely fine... carbs don't make you fat, eating too much food does. Just make sure your carbs are whole foods
Not discouraging anyone from eating whole foods (I eat some myself), but it's totally possible to lose weight and meet nutritional needs as a vegan while also including some non-whole foods in the diet.
Of course it is! Hell, you could lose weight eating Twinkies and Cheerios all day long as long as you're burning more than you're eating.
I was just mentioning the whole foods thing because there are so many Vegan replacements that are just awful and full of chemicals!! I know that a lot of new Vegans tend to rely on these types of foods so they're not really meeting their nutrient requirements on a reduced calorie Vegan diet.
There is nothing inherently wrong with chemicals. They are found in all foods, including whole foods. Twinkies and Cheerios aren't vegan, so I'm not sure why you're bringing them up in this context (and notice that I specifically called out meetings one's nutritional needs, so this is kind of a strawman to act like I'm talking about eating just two foods all day long).
There is nothing about eating vegan replacements that means one won't meet one's nutritional needs. In fact, sometimes these products actually help people meet their needs. I use plant milks to help meet my needs for calcium, protein (in soy milk, at least), and vitamin D. I eat nutritional yeast to help meet my needs for B12. I eat faux meat made from wheat gluten and hemp protein powder to help meet my need for protein. I could meet these needs without processed foods, sure. But why eliminate something tasty that helps me meet my nutritional needs and fits within my calorie goals?
It's equally possible for someone eating a diet excluding non-whole foods to fail to meet their nutritional needs -- things like iron, vitamin D, vitamin B12, and protein can sometimes be a struggle if one is eliminating processed foods from the diet. Not always, it's certainly possible to meet one's needs.
Why not just encourage vegans to focus on meeting their nutritional needs instead of arbitrarily excluding non-whole foods from the diet?1 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »It's been 4 months since i decided to go full vegan (because a lot of reasons). I have already lost 30 pounds since then. But, I got some concerns about this calorie counting and veganism.
A lot of vegan gurus says that you dont need calories counting.
Jeje! HONESTLY! In my experience, veganism has "junk food" too! I have this sweet tooth, so yes, I dont eat animal products but still Im struggling with cookies and empty carbs. That's why I think that I need to count calories because:
1. I need to make sure that Im getting all the calories and nutrients that I need.
2. Vegan Junk food makes me fat anyways! And prevents me from losing weight
Eh... Who are these vegan gurus? Was there an election? I never received a ballot slip...
Anyway, back to the thread. Do vegans need to calorie count, and why would someone say they didn't?
Step back from veganism for a minute. Does everyone on the standard American diet need to count calories? Obviously, the answer is no. There are plenty of people who stay at their happy healthy weight without calorie counting. For example, some of them are simply so active they can eat whatever they like, so their calories in=calories out; and some of them eat everything in appropriate moderation, which means calories in=calories out. There are even people who successfully resolve unwelcome weight gain without calorie counting, simply by making lifestyle changes, like eating everything in moderation from then on.
This is relevant, because as a vegan, moderation is somewhat forced on you. Let's consider ice-cream. There are two shops in my town that each sell five varieties of dairy-free vegan ice-cream. To me, used to there being only one brand of dairy-free vanilla, this is a magnificent range. To my husband who is a vegetarian, five varieties of ice-cream is the bare minimum that he would expect of a tiny corner shop, and in a supermarket he expects to see an entire aisle of choices.
So, with that in mind, if you challenged a vegetarian/someone on the standard American diet and a vegan to eat a bowl of ice-cream/dairy-free ice-cream (as appropriate) every night for as long as they could stand it, which one would get sick of ice-cream first? Generally the vegan.
Similarly, someone without dietary restrictions can go way over their calories by going to McDonalds every day for a week without getting bored. If you're a vegan however, it's basically just the fries and the garden salad.
So, statistically, at the population-level, I expect that a higher proportion of vegans will find they don't need to calorie count, and many people report that going vegan helped them lose weight without calorie counting.
This is the origin of propaganda like "vegans don't need to calorie count".
However, it's propaganda. It's not true that no vegan ever needs to calorie count, and it's inaccurate for anyone to declare that veganism entirely eliminates any need for it.
It has always been possible to eat too much as a vegan- simply eating too big portions will do it. Now, of course, it's getting easier to be an overweight vegan all the time, as manufacturers spot the gap in the market for dairy-free, egg-free confectionery.
Vegan gurus like Freelee the banana girl (or today gofreeyourself) Fullyrawkristina, heck there is one other guy called Durianrider who promotes eating raw sugar and drinking sprite for weightloss. There is "That vegan couple" "Bananiac" etc all are for HCLF,30 bananas a day diet. Lots of people like unnatural vegan have critisized them for their *kitten*, but a lot of newly vegans (including me in the past) have stumbled upon them and believed their crap.0 -
Im doing the vegan thing for 2 more weeks. Did 40 days of it and realized how much MORE carbs i was eating..I monitored all my macros balanced everything, thats when i started shedding fat.0
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Ah. Them. Of course it's them. I am soooooooo glad to have been vegan before the internet... Durianrider is Freelee's ex-boyfriend, by the way.Windrunner666 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »It's been 4 months since i decided to go full vegan (because a lot of reasons). I have already lost 30 pounds since then. But, I got some concerns about this calorie counting and veganism.
A lot of vegan gurus says that you dont need calories counting.
Jeje! HONESTLY! In my experience, veganism has "junk food" too! I have this sweet tooth, so yes, I dont eat animal products but still Im struggling with cookies and empty carbs. That's why I think that I need to count calories because:
1. I need to make sure that Im getting all the calories and nutrients that I need.
2. Vegan Junk food makes me fat anyways! And prevents me from losing weight
Eh... Who are these vegan gurus? Was there an election? I never received a ballot slip...
Anyway, back to the thread. Do vegans need to calorie count, and why would someone say they didn't?
Step back from veganism for a minute. Does everyone on the standard American diet need to count calories? Obviously, the answer is no. There are plenty of people who stay at their happy healthy weight without calorie counting. For example, some of them are simply so active they can eat whatever they like, so their calories in=calories out; and some of them eat everything in appropriate moderation, which means calories in=calories out. There are even people who successfully resolve unwelcome weight gain without calorie counting, simply by making lifestyle changes, like eating everything in moderation from then on.
This is relevant, because as a vegan, moderation is somewhat forced on you. Let's consider ice-cream. There are two shops in my town that each sell five varieties of dairy-free vegan ice-cream. To me, used to there being only one brand of dairy-free vanilla, this is a magnificent range. To my husband who is a vegetarian, five varieties of ice-cream is the bare minimum that he would expect of a tiny corner shop, and in a supermarket he expects to see an entire aisle of choices.
So, with that in mind, if you challenged a vegetarian/someone on the standard American diet and a vegan to eat a bowl of ice-cream/dairy-free ice-cream (as appropriate) every night for as long as they could stand it, which one would get sick of ice-cream first? Generally the vegan.
Similarly, someone without dietary restrictions can go way over their calories by going to McDonalds every day for a week without getting bored. If you're a vegan however, it's basically just the fries and the garden salad.
So, statistically, at the population-level, I expect that a higher proportion of vegans will find they don't need to calorie count, and many people report that going vegan helped them lose weight without calorie counting.
This is the origin of propaganda like "vegans don't need to calorie count".
However, it's propaganda. It's not true that no vegan ever needs to calorie count, and it's inaccurate for anyone to declare that veganism entirely eliminates any need for it.
It has always been possible to eat too much as a vegan- simply eating too big portions will do it. Now, of course, it's getting easier to be an overweight vegan all the time, as manufacturers spot the gap in the market for dairy-free, egg-free confectionery.
Vegan gurus like Freelee the banana girl (or today gofreeyourself) Fullyrawkristina, heck there is one other guy called Durianrider who promotes eating raw sugar and drinking sprite for weightloss. There is "That vegan couple" "Bananiac" etc all are for HCLF,30 bananas a day diet. Lots of people like unnatural vegan have critisized them for their *kitten*, but a lot of newly vegans (including me in the past) have stumbled upon them and believed their crap.
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I've been vegan for 12 years and started calorie counting in Jan. It depends on what your goals are but you can obviously tweak the amount of carbs - I do 35/35/30 p/c/f, initially I was target 40% protein but found I was skipping fruit which seemed silly. Bottom line is, and it sounds like you know this already, it matters just as much for vegans as anyone else. French fries - vegan! Oreos - vegan! Dark chocolate - vegan!
If you read through the many threads you'll see many people keep their carbs much higher than this and still lose successfully so do whatever works for you body and just make sure you leave room for a reasonable amount of protein and fat while staying under your calorie goal.0 -
I kind of find it bewildering how veganism has become about all this Freelee and Durianrider and co crap (I am so embarassed that they are Australian and also I can't understand how people watch these two and decided to take advice from them, they are clearly unhinged and just making stuff up as they go along). Veganism has its foundations in recognising animals as beings that experience pain and suffering and deserve respect and that not consuming or wearing animals or animal products is an ethical stance, not a health one.
I get that people might do it for perceived health or weight loss benefits but it could have the opposite effect if research is not done, especially things like B12 deficiencies.
To the OP, well done, sounds like you are feeling great, you certainly look great. If you are worried about fats and don't necessarily want to cook with olive oil etc you could try flaxseed oil, I use it in capsule form but it also just comes just as a liquid. Has plenty of omegas in it too.2 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Ah. Them. Of course it's them. I am soooooooo glad to have been vegan before the internet... Durianrider is Freelee's ex-boyfriend, by the way.Windrunner666 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »It's been 4 months since i decided to go full vegan (because a lot of reasons). I have already lost 30 pounds since then. But, I got some concerns about this calorie counting and veganism.
A lot of vegan gurus says that you dont need calories counting.
Jeje! HONESTLY! In my experience, veganism has "junk food" too! I have this sweet tooth, so yes, I dont eat animal products but still Im struggling with cookies and empty carbs. That's why I think that I need to count calories because:
1. I need to make sure that Im getting all the calories and nutrients that I need.
2. Vegan Junk food makes me fat anyways! And prevents me from losing weight
Eh... Who are these vegan gurus? Was there an election? I never received a ballot slip...
Anyway, back to the thread. Do vegans need to calorie count, and why would someone say they didn't?
Step back from veganism for a minute. Does everyone on the standard American diet need to count calories? Obviously, the answer is no. There are plenty of people who stay at their happy healthy weight without calorie counting. For example, some of them are simply so active they can eat whatever they like, so their calories in=calories out; and some of them eat everything in appropriate moderation, which means calories in=calories out. There are even people who successfully resolve unwelcome weight gain without calorie counting, simply by making lifestyle changes, like eating everything in moderation from then on.
This is relevant, because as a vegan, moderation is somewhat forced on you. Let's consider ice-cream. There are two shops in my town that each sell five varieties of dairy-free vegan ice-cream. To me, used to there being only one brand of dairy-free vanilla, this is a magnificent range. To my husband who is a vegetarian, five varieties of ice-cream is the bare minimum that he would expect of a tiny corner shop, and in a supermarket he expects to see an entire aisle of choices.
So, with that in mind, if you challenged a vegetarian/someone on the standard American diet and a vegan to eat a bowl of ice-cream/dairy-free ice-cream (as appropriate) every night for as long as they could stand it, which one would get sick of ice-cream first? Generally the vegan.
Similarly, someone without dietary restrictions can go way over their calories by going to McDonalds every day for a week without getting bored. If you're a vegan however, it's basically just the fries and the garden salad.
So, statistically, at the population-level, I expect that a higher proportion of vegans will find they don't need to calorie count, and many people report that going vegan helped them lose weight without calorie counting.
This is the origin of propaganda like "vegans don't need to calorie count".
However, it's propaganda. It's not true that no vegan ever needs to calorie count, and it's inaccurate for anyone to declare that veganism entirely eliminates any need for it.
It has always been possible to eat too much as a vegan- simply eating too big portions will do it. Now, of course, it's getting easier to be an overweight vegan all the time, as manufacturers spot the gap in the market for dairy-free, egg-free confectionery.
Vegan gurus like Freelee the banana girl (or today gofreeyourself) Fullyrawkristina, heck there is one other guy called Durianrider who promotes eating raw sugar and drinking sprite for weightloss. There is "That vegan couple" "Bananiac" etc all are for HCLF,30 bananas a day diet. Lots of people like unnatural vegan have critisized them for their *kitten*, but a lot of newly vegans (including me in the past) have stumbled upon them and believed their crap.
They are the ones that everyone stumbles upon at least once. Freelee is selling veganism as a weightloss plan, a "lifestyle for life" and recommends eating 3000 cals per, tell me who wouldn't want to believe that?
Many people end up believing them, at least partially especially if you used to yo-yo diet for a long time.
They're crap and should be called out for intentionally misleading people.1 -
I believe you already have it figured out correctly in that you absolutely can overeat calories on a vegan diet and that counting calories is not a bad idea if you feel you need to. I'm just passing through to say that I love your dogs!1
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Windrunner666 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
Ah. Them. Of course it's them. I am soooooooo glad to have been vegan before the internet... Durianrider is Freelee's ex-boyfriend, by the way.Windrunner666 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »It's been 4 months since i decided to go full vegan (because a lot of reasons). I have already lost 30 pounds since then. But, I got some concerns about this calorie counting and veganism.
A lot of vegan gurus says that you dont need calories counting.
Jeje! HONESTLY! In my experience, veganism has "junk food" too! I have this sweet tooth, so yes, I dont eat animal products but still Im struggling with cookies and empty carbs. That's why I think that I need to count calories because:
1. I need to make sure that Im getting all the calories and nutrients that I need.
2. Vegan Junk food makes me fat anyways! And prevents me from losing weight
Eh... Who are these vegan gurus? Was there an election? I never received a ballot slip...
Anyway, back to the thread. Do vegans need to calorie count, and why would someone say they didn't?
Step back from veganism for a minute. Does everyone on the standard American diet need to count calories? Obviously, the answer is no. There are plenty of people who stay at their happy healthy weight without calorie counting. For example, some of them are simply so active they can eat whatever they like, so their calories in=calories out; and some of them eat everything in appropriate moderation, which means calories in=calories out. There are even people who successfully resolve unwelcome weight gain without calorie counting, simply by making lifestyle changes, like eating everything in moderation from then on.
This is relevant, because as a vegan, moderation is somewhat forced on you. Let's consider ice-cream. There are two shops in my town that each sell five varieties of dairy-free vegan ice-cream. To me, used to there being only one brand of dairy-free vanilla, this is a magnificent range. To my husband who is a vegetarian, five varieties of ice-cream is the bare minimum that he would expect of a tiny corner shop, and in a supermarket he expects to see an entire aisle of choices.
So, with that in mind, if you challenged a vegetarian/someone on the standard American diet and a vegan to eat a bowl of ice-cream/dairy-free ice-cream (as appropriate) every night for as long as they could stand it, which one would get sick of ice-cream first? Generally the vegan.
Similarly, someone without dietary restrictions can go way over their calories by going to McDonalds every day for a week without getting bored. If you're a vegan however, it's basically just the fries and the garden salad.
So, statistically, at the population-level, I expect that a higher proportion of vegans will find they don't need to calorie count, and many people report that going vegan helped them lose weight without calorie counting.
This is the origin of propaganda like "vegans don't need to calorie count".
However, it's propaganda. It's not true that no vegan ever needs to calorie count, and it's inaccurate for anyone to declare that veganism entirely eliminates any need for it.
It has always been possible to eat too much as a vegan- simply eating too big portions will do it. Now, of course, it's getting easier to be an overweight vegan all the time, as manufacturers spot the gap in the market for dairy-free, egg-free confectionery.
Vegan gurus like Freelee the banana girl (or today gofreeyourself) Fullyrawkristina, heck there is one other guy called Durianrider who promotes eating raw sugar and drinking sprite for weightloss. There is "That vegan couple" "Bananiac" etc all are for HCLF,30 bananas a day diet. Lots of people like unnatural vegan have critisized them for their *kitten*, but a lot of newly vegans (including me in the past) have stumbled upon them and believed their crap.
They are the ones that everyone stumbles upon at least once. Freelee is selling veganism as a weightloss plan, a "lifestyle for life" and recommends eating 3000 cals per, tell me who wouldn't want to believe that?
Many people end up believing them, at least partially especially if you used to yo-yo diet for a long time.
They're crap and should be called out for intentionally misleading people.
A couple of years ago they had a site and I had joined, doing a "Raw till 4" diet sort of. However they would recommend 2500-3000 calories for a woman... that doesn't freaking workout except the walking. I was a student and yes I wasn't an adult but didn't hide it from them. I couldn't eat more than 1800 calories of this diet and I started getting weight again as it was in the middle of my weight loss journey. I wrote to them about all this and they kicked me out hahaha! Oh I also told them that when I was eating a vegetarian or "omnivorous" diet I was able to lose weight and it wasn't what made me fat. They would NOT accept it.
As for the vegan weight gain, I would eat less sweet fruit, breads and nut butters. The nut butters and seed spreads (tahini) are so full of fats and calories. I would only have them if they fit my calorie intake for the day. Soya chunks and mince are an amazing low-cal protein source. To this day, if I have pasta "bolognese", I make my sauce with soya mince. Soya chunks are great in a tortilla or with sweet potato or just a salad when you want to cut carbs.
Oh and one thing that you should avoid as a vegan: don't make cookies and vegan sweets when you want to lose weight! Just because they're vegan it doesn't mean they're low-cal. I once made these cookies and were like 150 Kcal per cookie! They were so delicious, you couldn't just have one. It's better to stick to fresh fruits and vegan yogurts for sweet meals or snacks.
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