Juicing journey

2

Replies

  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    What I am saying is that it will only take the amount of calories it needs to function and store the rest as body fat. If while in this metabolic state where the body is functioning fine on lower calories you start to eat more calories it will take a while to adjust. Where are you getting your facts from? I am really not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but I know that metabolism works just like gaining fat works, because the two are kinda one in the same. No exercise and unhealthy food equals poor metabolism, and as the old saying goes, you didnt gain the weight over night you cant expect to lose it over night, so to me common sense would dictate that your metabolism wouldnt return to normal over night when you return to a normal diet

    Thats how anyone puts on weight. By eating too much. I don't get your point.

    Starvation mode - putting on weight from eating too little - does not exist.
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    I didnt say you put it on while eating too little, i said you put it on when you return to a normal diet because your body has adjusted to lower calories
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    I didnt say you put it on while eating too little, i said you put it on when you return to a normal diet because your body has adjusted to lower calories

    Or.... It just needs less calories because you have less body to sustain.

    Thats why so many people put on weight after they "diet". It's normal. It's why you need to go to maintenance properly.

    That has nothing to do with starvation mode.
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.
  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,753 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.

    http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
  • silvervega
    silvervega Posts: 11 Member
    Yokamoccha wrote: »
    Hello everyone!
    I just started my juicing journey 04/10/17.
    I am making the recipes from justonjuice.com
    You can drink anywhere from 4-6 juices 18-20oz each. Today I only had 4 juices in total. 2 morning glories, 1 mean green and 1 sunset passion. If you're juicing join me in this journey!
    I am doing the juice fast for 26 days.

    Hi there, it is nice to see someone else in a juice fasting journey.I'll share with you my experience so far. I started my journey in February 8, so I'm day 61. First of all stress and depression have banished, I lost weight I feel physically good even tho I'm still far from my goals. I sleep like a baby. I noticed so many negative comments about this.
    I would say don't let people that has probably never tried Juice fasting discourage you from reaching your goal. If you worry about protein just add more kale or broccoli to your juice. Don't let people discourage you from your goal. if you eat too little calories your body will let you know. Just drink more juice every time you feel hungry. I would recommend you to stick to just juice until you are done with your goal :) but it is up to you whatever you want to do. By the way this site calculates your juice nutrients so you know what you are getting on each juice. I found it really helpful. https://juicerecipes.com/build/
    I usually get around 45g protein from my juice a day :smiley:
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    I have consulted a doctor on the issue. Normally I am not one to talk about websites, but it just seems that after so much that says that a metabolic change does occur, as to not seeing a single article that says that there is no metabolic change due to malnutrition, it is hard to believe that so many people are wrong. I seriously just want to see one of these journals, or something referring to these studies. I dont know, I mean its like after all this time we have evidence that smoking can lead to lung cancer and Emphysema. Then one day someone tells me that there is no links to them at all, so I say, wow thats completely opposite of popular belief, I would like to see how you came to that conclusion... Oh well you can't, they are in top secret peer reviewed journals, and secret studies that you dont have access to. Its hard to form or change my opinion when all i have to go on is something as flimsy as a person that got their information from another person with no concrete evidence that I can see myself. How many times in your life have you heard something you werent sure about and you ask "Where did you hear that from?" and the person responds with some guy that knows a guy said that guy said so. Its hard to place belief in that.

  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.

    http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/

    @Breeticus87 I highly recommend you read the above link :smile:
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    Thank you Christine, this is what I have been trying to say. I never said that not eating will cause you to NOT lose weight. What I have been saying over the posts is that since your metabolism drops, it would be silly not to think that when you go back to eating normally, you will gain weight back fairly quickly due to the slower metabolism. What everyone is telling me is that no it wont because either A. This doesnt exist or B. The body will adjust fast enough that no significant weight will be gained from going back to eating normally. I disagree because metabolism doesnt work that way, it doesnt just shift from slow to fast over night. It's gradual. You would literally have to starve yourself for a very long time to the point that it could kill you in order to lose a significant amount of weight. So what I am saying is you may lose 10-20 lbs pretty quick maybe 3 weeks eating that way, but you probably will gain at least 10 back before your metabolism returns once you go back to eating a normal healthy diet.
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    Thanks for the article. It was perfect.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    Thank you Christine, this is what I have been trying to say. I never said that not eating will cause you to NOT lose weight. What I have been saying over the posts is that since your metabolism drops, it would be silly not to think that when you go back to eating normally, you will gain weight back fairly quickly due to the slower metabolism. What everyone is telling me is that no it wont because either A. This doesnt exist or B. The body will adjust fast enough that no significant weight will be gained from going back to eating normally. I disagree because metabolism doesnt work that way, it doesnt just shift from slow to fast over night. It's gradual. You would literally have to starve yourself for a very long time to the point that it could kill you in order to lose a significant amount of weight. So what I am saying is you may lose 10-20 lbs pretty quick maybe 3 weeks eating that way, but you probably will gain at least 10 back before your metabolism returns once you go back to eating a normal healthy diet.

    But that's NORMAL. You are 10-20lbs lighter. Regardless of whether it took 2 weeks or 20 weeks, your maintenance calories are lower than before you lost the weight because there is less body to sustain.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    Thank you Christine, this is what I have been trying to say. I never said that not eating will cause you to NOT lose weight. What I have been saying over the posts is that since your metabolism drops, it would be silly not to think that when you go back to eating normally, you will gain weight back fairly quickly due to the slower metabolism. What everyone is telling me is that no it wont because either A. This doesnt exist or B. The body will adjust fast enough that no significant weight will be gained from going back to eating normally. I disagree because metabolism doesnt work that way, it doesnt just shift from slow to fast over night. It's gradual. You would literally have to starve yourself for a very long time to the point that it could kill you in order to lose a significant amount of weight. So what I am saying is you may lose 10-20 lbs pretty quick maybe 3 weeks eating that way, but you probably will gain at least 10 back before your metabolism returns once you go back to eating a normal healthy diet.

    Nope, you're still not getting it.

    Yes, adaptive thermogenesis is a real thing. But there are ways to minimise it - sensible deficit (like 500 cal deficit per day, though people with more to lose can sustain a 1000 cal deficit for a while because they have larger fat stores), taking regular diet breaks (this helps reset hormones that can get a bit out of whack with prolonged dieting), and 'reverse dieting' your way out of a deficit once you reach goal (aka slowly increasing your calorie intake over a few weeks until you stop losing weight). And of course if you go back to eating what you did before you will gain weight. That's how you got fat in the first place. Plus your calorie needs are lower because your body weight is lower. You simply don't need as much to fuel it.

  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    Okay after an hour I am just going to agree to disagree. All I was trying to say was that if you dont eat enough your metabolism will slow, and a normal healthy human diet is supposed to be 2000 calories a day, for a dieting person between 1500-1700 to lose weight in a healthy way, if you dip too far below that then your body will respond in a way that wont be pleasant, and eventually you will have insane cravings, and you will have to go back to eating 1500 or more, but if its used to only getting 1000-1200 its going to gain weight because its 300-500 more calories than its used to getting on a daily, I dont see how that could be wrong, but if I am an idiot, I am an idiot for that. All I wanted to do was help this girl not mess up her body by shocking its homeostasis then I got shot at from all sides. Sorry if I offended anyone or made anyone mad. That was never my intentions.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,751 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    Okay after an hour I am just going to agree to disagree. All I was trying to say was that if you dont eat enough your metabolism will slow, and a normal healthy human diet is supposed to be 2000 calories a day, for a dieting person between 1500-1700 to lose weight in a healthy way, if you dip too far below that then your body will respond in a way that wont be pleasant, and eventually you will have insane cravings, and you will have to go back to eating 1500 or more, but if its used to only getting 1000-1200 its going to gain weight because its 300-500 more calories than its used to getting on a daily, I dont see how that could be wrong, but if I am an idiot, I am an idiot for that. All I wanted to do was help this girl not mess up her body by shocking its homeostasis then I got shot at from all sides. Sorry if I offended anyone or made anyone mad. That was never my intentions.

    No.
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    I would also like to add Yoka that even though I don't agree with the juice fasting I do wish you the best of luck on your journey. I did voice a lot of things that may or may not have discouraged you and your goals, and I want you to know that all of these things are just me voicing what I believe to be true through what I know, but who is to say what is right or wrong? Today everything changes on a dime when it comes to health. Nutritionists are just doing their best to keep up with the ever changing studies. Who knows in a few months or years everything we just talked about could be obsolete because they found out both sides were incorrect. I guess what I am getting at is if your goal is to do the juicing fast, then you do it, because when I came here years ago I was in a pretty rough place. People here helped me, and guided me. Plus now that I took a step back I realize that being unsupportive of a goal is not a good way to be. Our goals are what motivate us to keep going. I hope you find everything you are looking for, but just one thing, if while on the juice fast you start to show any symptoms of starvation just maybe have a banana, or something. Its healthy, its got a lot of fiber, and of course potassium so it wont hurt your goal too much, but most importantly it has a lot of natural sugars that will help boost your energy. Goodnight everyone, have an awesome day/night!
  • ladyreva78
    ladyreva78 Posts: 4,080 Member
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    Okay after an hour I am just going to agree to disagree. All I was trying to say was that if you dont eat enough your metabolism will slow, and a normal healthy human diet is supposed to be 2000 calories a day, for a dieting person between 1500-1700 to lose weight in a healthy way, if you dip too far below that then your body will respond in a way that wont be pleasant, and eventually you will have insane cravings, and you will have to go back to eating 1500 or more, but if its used to only getting 1000-1200 its going to gain weight because its 300-500 more calories than its used to getting on a daily, I dont see how that could be wrong, but if I am an idiot, I am an idiot for that. All I wanted to do was help this girl not mess up her body by shocking its homeostasis then I got shot at from all sides. Sorry if I offended anyone or made anyone mad. That was never my intentions.

    If I eat at 2000 cals, I lose weight (and I'm female, 35, average height, lightly active).
    If my mother eats at 2000 cals, she gains weight (female, 65, short, lightly active). To lose weight, she needs to eat below 1500cals/day.

    Since neither of us fits your definition of 'normal healthy human' does that mean we're unhealthy and abnormal? Your basing your assumptions on one-size fits all averages that just don't work for everyone. The calories necessary for someone will depend heavily on size, weight and activity level, reason why that's the first question that gets asked of an OP. It's the only way to judge whether a calorie intake is appropriate or not.

    Yes, the OP was eating in an unhealthy manner (but from a follow up post, it seems she will improve that), but the calories weren't the real problem for her, it's the low protein/fat intake.
  • Breeticus87
    Breeticus87 Posts: 114 Member
    no I am not trying to accuse anyone of being normal or abnormal, I was saying thats what the FDA considers to be an average normal daily caloric intake for someone trying to maintain their current weight, of course there is no one size fits all
  • ladyreva78
    ladyreva78 Posts: 4,080 Member
    Why does the FDA recommend 2000 Calories per day?

    I'm not usually a fan of using articles as sources, but it explains the reasoning behind the 2000 calories limit pretty nicely. (Plus, I'm at work and don't have the time to go search for better sources)
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Yokamoccha wrote: »
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    Just curious, how many calories a day will you be consuming on this "juice fast"?
    Will you get enough protein and fats?
    Is there any solid food allowed at all? What is the benefit of this?

    I will be consuming around 1200-1260 calories a day. Today I missed two juices and my protein intake was 21g. As for solid food, it is allowed as long as you keep it healthy choices like salad, fruit, etc. ( I will not consuming any solids) there are A LOT of benefits, if you want to lose weight this is a way to reduce calories intake without being deprived of nutrition. You will get way more vitamins and minerals than usual and juicing helps you adopt a healthier life style. People typically juice for 1 week to cleanse. I decided to do it for a month because I seriously need to lose weight.

    You're at less than half the recommended minimum protein intake but you say this doesn't deprive you of nutrition.
  • LessCookiess
    LessCookiess Posts: 538 Member
    edited April 2017
    Why are you doing this for 26 days? Also the website has a lot of misinformation that you're trying to use to go on your "juicing journey".

    How many calories will you be intaking daily? I feel like this is a very extreme measure of trying to lose weight.

    The website states when asked about detox and juicing:

    Juicing Questions Answer – The reason for the detox is to ‘detox’ your body by drinking pure juice so your colon does not have to use energy to digest all the solid foods including raw vegetables and fruits entering your body. This allows the detox to purify your system of all those built up toxins, most of which are stored up in fat cells. It also helps to remove the build of waste and toxins in your intestines.
    :
  • LessCookiess
    LessCookiess Posts: 538 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Yokamoccha wrote: »
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    Just curious, how many calories a day will you be consuming on this "juice fast"?
    Will you get enough protein and fats?
    Is there any solid food allowed at all? What is the benefit of this?

    I will be consuming around 1200-1260 calories a day. Today I missed two juices and my protein intake was 21g. As for solid food, it is allowed as long as you keep it healthy choices like salad, fruit, etc. ( I will not consuming any solids) there are A LOT of benefits, if you want to lose weight this is a way to reduce calories intake without being deprived of nutrition. You will get way more vitamins and minerals than usual and juicing helps you adopt a healthier life style. People typically juice for 1 week to cleanse. I decided to do it for a month because I seriously need to lose weight.

    Or you can just reduce your total intake by 25%, this plan is unnecessary for health , nutrition, or weight loss.

    If your kidneys and liver work, you are already cleansing...

    I gotta agree!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Hi, Breeticus. I know you are trying to help, and I think your basic point (don't do starvation diets) was right, but I just want to try to clarify a few things.
    Breeticus87 wrote: »
    Okay after an hour I am just going to agree to disagree. All I was trying to say was that if you dont eat enough your metabolism will slow

    This is true, but it's important to understand that metabolism (as in amount you burn just by being alive) ALWAYS slows when you lose weight. Someone 100 lbs simply doesn't burn as much sitting around or doing the same activities as someone 250 lbs. That's natural. If you start at 200 and end up at 130, you will burn fewer calories and if you eat what someone would for maintenance at 200, you will gain -- no matter how you lost the weight. That's normal. Someone 130 and someone 200, neither of whom have ever dieted, will not have the same maintenance.

    On top of that, losing weight (again, no matter how) may have a depressive effect on metabolism. There's evidence of this. It seems to be much more extreme if you have an extreme or aggressive deficit (i.e., starvation diet) and if you diet without adequate protein (as that causes muscle loss). For these reasons, a moderate deficit (depending on fat you have to lose) and increasing protein is often recommended, and are things I'd recommend. This can result in someone who loses from 200 to 130 having a lower metabolism than the person who has always been 130, and require more care in choosing maintenance calories or the kinds of efforts that others have mentioned, like reverse dieting. You can also always increase overall metabolism, of course, by moving more.
    and a normal healthy human diet is supposed to be 2000 calories a day

    This is mistaken. TDEE (or maintenance) depends on size (including muscle mass) and activity level. I am a 5'3, 125 woman with about 95 lbs of muscle mass, and if I were sedentary (I'm not), my maintenance would be around 1550 calories/day. That's normal -- it's what the calculators predict for someone who hasn't lost weight.

    On the other hand, a 6'3, 200 lb guy with an active job will have maintenance above 2000 (probably way above).

    If you think about it, could it possibly make sense for the two people to have the same maintenance just because they are both healthy humans?
    for a dieting person between 1500-1700 to lose weight in a healthy way

    No, what is aggressive vs. reasonable depends on what maintenance is. For the sedentary 5'3 woman above, 1200 might be moderate and reasonable (if she really is sedentary). For the 6'3 man, 1700 would probably be an extremely aggressive deficit, much more so than 1200 for the woman in the example.

    Does that make sense?
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    Yokamoccha wrote: »
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    Just curious, how many calories a day will you be consuming on this "juice fast"?
    Will you get enough protein and fats?
    Is there any solid food allowed at all? What is the benefit of this?

    I will be consuming around 1200-1260 calories a day. Today I missed two juices and my protein intake was 21g. As for solid food, it is allowed as long as you keep it healthy choices like salad, fruit, etc. ( I will not consuming any solids) there are A LOT of benefits, if you want to lose weight this is a way to reduce calories intake without being deprived of nutrition. You will get way more vitamins and minerals than usual and juicing helps you adopt a healthier life style. People typically juice for 1 week to cleanse. I decided to do it for a month because I seriously need to lose weight.

    @Yokamoccha, you are setting yourself up.

    Doing nothing but juices will keep you in the bathroom because of diarrhea.

    When you juice only, you miss essential fiber.

    There is no reason to cleanse because your body naturally does that all by itself.

    Your plan is not sustainable at all. I suggest that you still have a juice each day, if you indeed like juice, and fill the rest of your calories with solid foods. Also, you don't have that much to lose, so your deficit does not have to be so aggressive. I suggest setting a goal to lose a pound a week.

    Here's the real kicker though: you can juice all you want, but if you don't maintain a calorie deficit while doing so it will not work, but it will work if you keep your calorie deficit.

    In other words, it's the calorie deficit that will lead to weight loss, not the juicing.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    edited April 2017
    Yokamoccha wrote: »
    I am not promoting people to join me nor am I saying to "only join me if you're doing it for 26 days only". People juice cleanse all the time from 3 days to a week to 2 weeks. I decided to do it for 26 days because it is my choice. Just like everyone has the choice to agree or disagree. Im not promising I will just consume juices for 26 days but I will try my hardest, If I see that it is not working for me I will consume healthy meals to replace some of the juices.

    This right here (in bold) is the answer.
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