Juicing journey
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Breeticus87 wrote: »Here is the big problem with a juicing fast. It really is only for those people who are so unhealthy that if they dont lose a lot of weight in a fairly quick amount of time they are going to be in danger. What is so bad about a juicing fast is you will lose a lot of weight fast, but you can't remain on it forever and be healthy. That being said, when your body goes into something that shocks it, such as low calories, no solid foods to break down, not enough daily vitamins and minerals, it goes into sort of a fail safe. We like to think that, "Hey I can just eat cabbage soup for a month, then I will lose all of this weight and I will look great, and I can go back to eating however I want" This is so incorrect it hurts me a little bit. Three major factors here: Number one when the body is not getting the nutrients it needs you start to crave, and I don't mean crave like normal cravings like "I've been so good, and I am just craving a piece of cake right now" no its nothing like that, more like how a zombie needs brains kinda craving. I once heard of a guy who was extremely iron deficient and his body actually made him crave clay... ya you read that right, he wanted to eat clay. So there is number one, your body will physically be in pain if you dont get the nutrients and you will get wild cravings. Number two, when you aren't getting enough of the right nutrition in your body it decides to go into a savings mode. This is very similar to bears hibernating. They eat a lot and fatten up because they will be nesting all winter. Obviously we all went to school and we know what happens there. The bears metabolism slows way down, and they become almost dormant sleeping most of their days, and barely moving at all except maybe to feed their young. Our bodies are capable of doing the same thing, when we aren't getting the foods we need our metabolism slows down to protect us from starving to death. The result is not a lot of blood flow to the brain, and what little food you do put in your body will be partially stored into fat for reserves because your body doesn't communicate with your brain as well as you might think. Your body is convinced you have no food, so its trying to protect you, and when you do start to eat healthy again, your body will take a while to switch back into full form, so all of that will be wasted, because things that should be healthy and actually help you lose weight will make you gain weight because your body will put a portion away as body fat. Third and finally, I know I am preaching and im sorry, I just want to help, but making that sort of decision puts a lot of strain on your body. Many of your organs will suffer from this. You look young so you probably wont feel it as much as some people a little older than you, but its going to stress your heart, your liver, your digestive system, your brain, and your kidneys probably as well because since its juice, your kidneys will now not only be filtering your liquids, but now will help filter your meals too. Worst of all once they get used to this new life style in a month you will have to return to solid foods, and that's even worse. Now these organs have been taking it easy, all of your food has been coming through like a moving assembly line and they haven't had to do much work to help you pass it. All of a sudden they have to work harder than they have ever had to work. It is like going back to school after summer vacation, it is a little hard to get back into it at first, but luckily most teachers take it easy on kids for the first few weeks until they get used to their new schedules. Your body won't do that, it will try to jump right back in and work as hard as it always has. This is a very dangerous transition, it could cause heart attacks, strokes, constipation, it could even make you more likely to get an external sickness as well like the flu, or a common cold, or anything, because your immune system runs and becomes strong off of the foods you eat, and the energy it provides, and your body will have a hard time processing that energy during the transition period... Anyways I have pretty much written a novel here, and I sincerely hope you read it all, I am not a professional, but I have done a lot of studying on this so I know what I am talking about, just read my profile and you will see I take nutrition very seriously. I believe in living healthy first, and losing weight second. If you read this far, thanks for sticking with me
Woah
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I forgot to add that I also have been over shooting my calories everyday and trying my hardest to meet all my nutritional goals. Some days I will go over my calories by as much as 300-400, but I also work out for an hour or two a day. The results are insane. I weigh 255 lbs, and with what I am doing currently MFP is saying that in 5 weeks I will weight 236lbs. That is a 19 lb loss in just a little over a month. At first I thought that wasnt good because you shouldnt lose weight that fast, however MFP has built in warning signs, so if it were unhealthy it would have flagged it. 20 lbs in a month is insane, and I am doing it the right way. Not saying it will work for you that way, but if I were you, and losing a lot of weight or living a healthier lifestyle is what you want, I think this is the way to go.0
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Breeticus87 wrote: »Number two, when you aren't getting enough of the right nutrition in your body it decides to go into a savings mode. This is very similar to bears hibernating. They eat a lot and fatten up because they will be nesting all winter. Obviously we all went to school and we know what happens there. The bears metabolism slows way down, and they become almost dormant sleeping most of their days, and barely moving at all except maybe to feed their young. Our bodies are capable of doing the same thing, when we aren't getting the foods we need our metabolism slows down to protect us from starving to death. The result is not a lot of blood flow to the brain, and what little food you do put in your body will be partially stored into fat for reserves because your body doesn't communicate with your brain as well as you might think. Your body is convinced you have no food, so its trying to protect you, and when you do start to eat healthy again, your body will take a while to switch back into full form, so all of that will be wasted, because things that should be healthy and actually help you lose weight will make you gain weight because your body will put a portion away as body fat.
It's a shame that starvation mode doesn't exist.
Bears get fat because they eat a lot. When they're hibernating and not eating much they don't stay fat. (I guess, I'm not 100% on the lifestyles of bears, they aren't common in Australia except at the zoo)
Not to mention humans don't hibernate. This is all very, very wrong.5 -
Starvation Mode Basics:
"Your body is equipped with its own starvation defense mechanism, which has evolved over millions of years to protect you during times when food was scarce -- a problem most people don't have today. When you take in too few calories to support activity and normal physiological functioning, your body adapts by reducing the amount of energy it uses to accomplish tasks. Your body may also turn to lean muscle mass for energy in order to conserve its valuable fat stores, just in case it doesn't receive more food anytime soon." (Pulled from Live Strong)... From me if the body is reducing the amount of energy it needs to function then it is reducing the amount of calories it needs to operate so therefore if you meet the new calorie goal which is significantly less it will be conserved as body fat. "Restricting calories during weight loss lowers metabolism1 because the body becomes more efficient, requiring fewer calories to perform the necessary daily functions for survival. Consequently, this can slow (but not stop) the anticipated rate of weight loss." (From Weight Watchers) I never said she would gain weight in the starvation period, I said she would gain weight when she returns to a normal habit of eating because the metabolism is slowed. "“Starvation mode” is the theory that when you cut calories too low, your body thinks that it’s starving and responds by hanging onto any calories it gets instead of burning them. The result: You gain pounds, rather than lose 'em. But is this line of thinking legit—or just a way to keep people from taking drastic measures to lose weight?" (From Women Health) Now they are saying they arent sure if its a myth or not, and I would say the gain pounds part is wrong until you return to a healthy style of eating, but the rest is legit. "Starvation response in animals is a set of adaptive biochemical and physiological changes that reduce metabolism in response to a lack of food.[1]
Equivalent or closely related terms include famine response, starvation mode, famine mode, starvation resistance, starvation tolerance, adapted starvation, adaptive thermogenesis, fat adaptation, and metabolic adaptation." "Starvation mode is a state in which the body is responding to prolonged periods of low energy intake levels. During short periods of energy abstinence, the human body will burn primarily free fatty acids from body fat stores, along with small amounts of muscle tissue to provide required glucose for the brain. After prolonged periods of starvation the body has depleted its body fat and begins to burn primarily lean tissue and muscle as a fuel source.
Ordinarily, the body responds to reduced energy intake by burning fat reserves and consuming muscle and other tissues. Specifically, the body burns fat after first exhausting the contents of the digestive tract along with glycogen reserves stored in liver cells.[2] After prolonged periods of starvation, the body will utilize the proteins within muscle tissue as a fuel source. People who practice fasting on a regular basis, such as those adhering to energy restricted diets, can prime their bodies to abstain from food while reducing the amount of muscle burned.[3]" (From Wikipedia) According to the rest of the entry 3 days is considered a short period, anything longer is a prolonged period in which a Starvation Response will occur. Now maybe I didnt get super scientific over there and you are just trying to troll me, but all of this seems like pretty damning evidence to a metabolic change due to malnutrition.0 -
@Breeticus87 your body doesn't start storing fat.
Your bmr lowers when you lose weight, because there is less body to sustain. Your "maintenance" is naturally lower than when you were heavier.
Your metabolism may also lower in response to extended periods of low calories. So again, your maintenance is lower.
CICO still applies. Your body doesn't just start storing fat - unless you're giving it too many calories.9 -
Breeticus87 wrote: »Here is the big problem with a juicing fast. It really is only for those people who are so unhealthy that if they dont lose a lot of weight in a fairly quick amount of time they are going to be in danger. What is so bad about a juicing fast is you will lose a lot of weight fast, but you can't remain on it forever and be healthy. That being said, when your body goes into something that shocks it, such as low calories, no solid foods to break down, not enough daily vitamins and minerals, it goes into sort of a fail safe. We like to think that, "Hey I can just eat cabbage soup for a month, then I will lose all of this weight and I will look great, and I can go back to eating however I want" This is so incorrect it hurts me a little bit. Three major factors here: Number one when the body is not getting the nutrients it needs you start to crave, and I don't mean crave like normal cravings like "I've been so good, and I am just craving a piece of cake right now" no its nothing like that, more like how a zombie needs brains kinda craving. I once heard of a guy who was extremely iron deficient and his body actually made him crave clay... ya you read that right, he wanted to eat clay. So there is number one, your body will physically be in pain if you dont get the nutrients and you will get wild cravings. Number two, when you aren't getting enough of the right nutrition in your body it decides to go into a savings mode. This is very similar to bears hibernating. They eat a lot and fatten up because they will be nesting all winter. Obviously we all went to school and we know what happens there. The bears metabolism slows way down, and they become almost dormant sleeping most of their days, and barely moving at all except maybe to feed their young. Our bodies are capable of doing the same thing, when we aren't getting the foods we need our metabolism slows down to protect us from starving to death. The result is not a lot of blood flow to the brain, and what little food you do put in your body will be partially stored into fat for reserves because your body doesn't communicate with your brain as well as you might think. Your body is convinced you have no food, so its trying to protect you, and when you do start to eat healthy again, your body will take a while to switch back into full form, so all of that will be wasted, because things that should be healthy and actually help you lose weight will make you gain weight because your body will put a portion away as body fat. Third and finally, I know I am preaching and im sorry, I just want to help, but making that sort of decision puts a lot of strain on your body. Many of your organs will suffer from this. You look young so you probably wont feel it as much as some people a little older than you, but its going to stress your heart, your liver, your digestive system, your brain, and your kidneys probably as well because since its juice, your kidneys will now not only be filtering your liquids, but now will help filter your meals too. Worst of all once they get used to this new life style in a month you will have to return to solid foods, and that's even worse. Now these organs have been taking it easy, all of your food has been coming through like a moving assembly line and they haven't had to do much work to help you pass it. All of a sudden they have to work harder than they have ever had to work. It is like going back to school after summer vacation, it is a little hard to get back into it at first, but luckily most teachers take it easy on kids for the first few weeks until they get used to their new schedules. Your body won't do that, it will try to jump right back in and work as hard as it always has. This is a very dangerous transition, it could cause heart attacks, strokes, constipation, it could even make you more likely to get an external sickness as well like the flu, or a common cold, or anything, because your immune system runs and becomes strong off of the foods you eat, and the energy it provides, and your body will have a hard time processing that energy during the transition period... Anyways I have pretty much written a novel here, and I sincerely hope you read it all, I am not a professional, but I have done a lot of studying on this so I know what I am talking about, just read my profile and you will see I take nutrition very seriously. I believe in living healthy first, and losing weight second. If you read this far, thanks for sticking with me
And now I feel like a failure.9 -
Yes I agree, and I admit I was wrong about that, but for an understandable reason. Metabolic rate slows I get it, but also am I not somewhat correct? If the amount of calories needed is lowered to prevent starvation would the body not start to store fat when returning to a normal diet? Its not like it reacts that fast. Returning to a normal diet the body will have to adjust, and during that period when the metabolism is trying to speed itself back up to reach a normal level the excess calories will be stored as body fat, thats basic biology there. If the body only needs X amount of calories because the metabolism is slowed if you go over those calories returning to a normal diet the extra calories will be stored as fat... I dont understand why everyone thinks I am an idiot here, its happened to multiple people. Now I will agree that the way I thought and that most people thought it happened is not correct, but the results are still the same.0
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Unless someone is planning on eating that low calorie diet forever, and make it a lifestyle, but thats called anorexia and is very unhealthy.0
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Breeticus87 wrote: »Unless someone is planning on eating that low calorie diet forever, and make it a lifestyle, but thats called anorexia and is very unhealthy.
Why do so many people gain the weight back after any diet? Plus some.... Because their new maintenance is lower. Because they are lighter. But most go from diet to "normal" eating, disregarding that they can't eat that way anymore. Those that maintain realise there is a new maintenance and stick to it. Thats normal.
(but, just like your body can adapt to lower calories, it can also go the other way.... Reverse diets can deal with this.)
But the body doesn't hold on to body fat when it's being "starved" . If it did there wouldn't be people dying from anorexia.7 -
What I am saying is that it will only take the amount of calories it needs to function and store the rest as body fat. If while in this metabolic state where the body is functioning fine on lower calories you start to eat more calories it will take a while to adjust. Where are you getting your facts from? I am really not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but I know that metabolism works just like gaining fat works, because the two are kinda one in the same. No exercise and unhealthy food equals poor metabolism, and as the old saying goes, you didnt gain the weight over night you cant expect to lose it over night, so to me common sense would dictate that your metabolism wouldnt return to normal over night when you return to a normal diet
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Breeticus87 wrote: »What I am saying is that it will only take the amount of calories it needs to function and store the rest as body fat. If while in this metabolic state where the body is functioning fine on lower calories you start to eat more calories it will take a while to adjust. Where are you getting your facts from? I am really not trying to be disrespectful or anything, but I know that metabolism works just like gaining fat works, because the two are kinda one in the same. No exercise and unhealthy food equals poor metabolism, and as the old saying goes, you didnt gain the weight over night you cant expect to lose it over night, so to me common sense would dictate that your metabolism wouldnt return to normal over night when you return to a normal diet
Thats how anyone puts on weight. By eating too much. I don't get your point.
Starvation mode - putting on weight from eating too little - does not exist.1 -
I didnt say you put it on while eating too little, i said you put it on when you return to a normal diet because your body has adjusted to lower calories0
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Breeticus87 wrote: »I didnt say you put it on while eating too little, i said you put it on when you return to a normal diet because your body has adjusted to lower calories
Or.... It just needs less calories because you have less body to sustain.
Thats why so many people put on weight after they "diet". It's normal. It's why you need to go to maintenance properly.
That has nothing to do with starvation mode.2 -
I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.0
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Are you reading websites and magazine, or peer reviewed journals and studies?6
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Breeticus87 wrote: »I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/3 -
Yokamoccha wrote: »Hello everyone!
I just started my juicing journey 04/10/17.
I am making the recipes from justonjuice.com
You can drink anywhere from 4-6 juices 18-20oz each. Today I only had 4 juices in total. 2 morning glories, 1 mean green and 1 sunset passion. If you're juicing join me in this journey!
I am doing the juice fast for 26 days.
Hi there, it is nice to see someone else in a juice fasting journey.I'll share with you my experience so far. I started my journey in February 8, so I'm day 61. First of all stress and depression have banished, I lost weight I feel physically good even tho I'm still far from my goals. I sleep like a baby. I noticed so many negative comments about this.
I would say don't let people that has probably never tried Juice fasting discourage you from reaching your goal. If you worry about protein just add more kale or broccoli to your juice. Don't let people discourage you from your goal. if you eat too little calories your body will let you know. Just drink more juice every time you feel hungry. I would recommend you to stick to just juice until you are done with your goal but it is up to you whatever you want to do. By the way this site calculates your juice nutrients so you know what you are getting on each juice. I found it really helpful. https://juicerecipes.com/build/
I usually get around 45g protein from my juice a day
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I have consulted a doctor on the issue. Normally I am not one to talk about websites, but it just seems that after so much that says that a metabolic change does occur, as to not seeing a single article that says that there is no metabolic change due to malnutrition, it is hard to believe that so many people are wrong. I seriously just want to see one of these journals, or something referring to these studies. I dont know, I mean its like after all this time we have evidence that smoking can lead to lung cancer and Emphysema. Then one day someone tells me that there is no links to them at all, so I say, wow thats completely opposite of popular belief, I would like to see how you came to that conclusion... Oh well you can't, they are in top secret peer reviewed journals, and secret studies that you dont have access to. Its hard to form or change my opinion when all i have to go on is something as flimsy as a person that got their information from another person with no concrete evidence that I can see myself. How many times in your life have you heard something you werent sure about and you ask "Where did you hear that from?" and the person responds with some guy that knows a guy said that guy said so. Its hard to place belief in that.
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Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Breeticus87 wrote: »I just dont understand why all of these sites would say that there is a definite metabolic change when the body doesnt have enough calories if its not true. I mean like I said the fat preservation is a myth, you were right, i humbly accept I couldnt have been more wrong about that, there is a lot of evidence pointing towards a metabolic change where the metabolism slows in order to protect the body from starvation. I just wish I knew where you were getting your information, and I know over text that comes off as a little snarky, but I am really not trying to be snarky, I just wanna know where you are getting that info, because I look up nutrition all the time. I have probably been to over 100 sites, thumbed through probably at least 20 or more magazines, consulted with my doctor about nutrition. I have a general interest in the subject, so if you could show me where you are getting this from I would love to read it, because it might just change my views on what I believe is correct.
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/
@Breeticus87 I highly recommend you read the above link 3 -
Thank you Christine, this is what I have been trying to say. I never said that not eating will cause you to NOT lose weight. What I have been saying over the posts is that since your metabolism drops, it would be silly not to think that when you go back to eating normally, you will gain weight back fairly quickly due to the slower metabolism. What everyone is telling me is that no it wont because either A. This doesnt exist or B. The body will adjust fast enough that no significant weight will be gained from going back to eating normally. I disagree because metabolism doesnt work that way, it doesnt just shift from slow to fast over night. It's gradual. You would literally have to starve yourself for a very long time to the point that it could kill you in order to lose a significant amount of weight. So what I am saying is you may lose 10-20 lbs pretty quick maybe 3 weeks eating that way, but you probably will gain at least 10 back before your metabolism returns once you go back to eating a normal healthy diet.0
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