CICO, It's a math formula
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So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.10 -
cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
It's been posted several times in this very thread.9 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
Pretty ridiculous argument. Dietary advice doesn't go to courtrooms. It's not a law.
And I can guarantee you, that I have helped more people than most on this board and have done a significant amounts of one on one work with members all base done CICO as done over the law of averages. It does NOT need to be exact. It needs to be consistent, that is it.
And you know why we got fat.. it's because we ate too much fat.12 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
THE MATH FORMULA IS CICO.
If you are maintaining weight: CI = CO
If you are losing weight: CI < CO
If you are gaining weight: CI > CO
How is that not a formula?14 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
The only misleading/false statements here are yours. This is a post about the mathematics of weight loss, not a thread on Gale Hawkins' feels on weight loss, so take your armchair psychology elsewhere. You got fat because you ate too much like all the rest of us. While you continue shirking your responsibility for that, I'll be over here adjusting my energy balance and achieving my goals.31 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
Pretty ridiculous argument. Dietary advice doesn't go to courtrooms. It's not a law.
And I can guarantee you, that I have helped more people than most on this board and have done a significant amounts of one on one work with members all base done CICO as done over the law of averages. It does NOT need to be exact. It needs to be consistent, that is it.
And you know why we got fat.. it's because we ate too much fat.
um
0 -
cmriverside wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
Pretty ridiculous argument. Dietary advice doesn't go to courtrooms. It's not a law.
And I can guarantee you, that I have helped more people than most on this board and have done a significant amounts of one on one work with members all base done CICO as done over the law of averages. It does NOT need to be exact. It needs to be consistent, that is it.
And you know why we got fat.. it's because we ate too much fat.
um
Umm.. its a joke
2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
It has been posted a couple of times already. There are plenty of people who know reliably well what their CI and CO is...mine averages out to be around 2,700 - 3,000 calorie per day depending on the time of year and training schedule...it doesn't have to be some exact thing and you don't have to know every variable. If I eat around 2,500 calories per day I will lose about 1 Lb per week and did so consistently.
Not everyone has "issues" related to food or whatever that requires some deep psychological analysis to understand...for a lot of people, it's pretty straight forward. As I've mentioned here multiple times...I gained weight when I went from being a very active college student to taking a desk job...I didn't have some compulsive overeating habit...my activity level just dropped...ya know, part of that whole CO aspect of the equation.
I've maintained for 4 years as of April 15th because my calories coming in are commensurate with my calories going out...really, you are going out of your way to make something pretty simple overly complicated...10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So the whole argument is (Gale) that the prediction isn't 100%? That's your argument?
It doesn't matter. IT DOESN'T MATTER.
No that is not my argument.
My statement is starting a thread addressed to new MFP forum members that contains misleading/false statements when it comes to diet health can be harmful to new members as well a the mission goal in general.
We know CICO is not a math formula or someone would have posted it by now.
No one here even knows their own CI or CO and that does not matter when it comes to losing/maintaining/gaining weight. If CO is the same daily then we could just make a change in the calories we eat or the macro we eat since all calories are not the same when consumed a food for the human body. CO could be the variable as well.
Using an accurate set of bathroom scales is all that is needed when thinking about the concept of CICO that has no functional formula to compute.
CICO in no way teaches us how we lost our natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight that occurred before we became obese or how to fix it.
The main reason most people that lose weight will have a 100%+ regain in the following years is not due to CICO concept failure but will be due to understand WHY and HOW they had gained the weight in the first place that they just lost.
All I am saying is do not mislead new MFP forum members with misleading and false info that would never stand up in most courtrooms if challenged. There are good things that can be helpful to all members that can be shared about why we gain weight and how we can lose weight and never regain it.
Physician - heal thyself.
Your problem is one of your own making. There is no "natural ability to eat to maintain a healthy weight". This is not instinctual and a false first principle, so all reasoning you have built upon this foundation is fundamentally flawed.
Organisms eat to survive - every organism will eat to excess to ensure survival as supply is an unknown variable.
The main reason for regained weight is an independent variable. A common theme is competing priorities. Weight management is naturally going to be balanced with any number of other stressors we manage on a daily basis.
You are misleading forum members with irrelevant details and your thought process is more in line with the diet industry.18 -
This is such a fundamentally sound and scientifically proven concept that it is hard to understand why it gets so complicated in these threads. Weight loss occurs when there is a calorie deficit. Weight gain occurs when there is a calories suprlus. MyFitnessPal is a Calorie Counting website to help you calculate and track Calories In versus Calories Out (CICO). This is not complicated. There is no magical weight loss pill, Macronutrient Formula, Fad Diet Concept, Dietary Cleanse... that will impact weight loss/gain. A weight loss only occurs when there is a calorie deficit and a weight gain only occurs when there is a calorie surplus.
The ONLY thing that is complicated is that everyone is different. We are all different height, weight, age, shapes, sizes, muscular make up, activity minded people; some of which also have metabolism altering health conditions. Each of us measure, weigh, digest, metabolize and burn calories different. It can be somewhat complex and most likely impossible to contact exact calories in versus calories out; but it is not necessary to have these numbers 100% accurate. But the tools MFP and our activity monitors give us are the best we can do to estimate our individual numbers.
Ideally, once you have established enough data based on your logging experience for calories in and your activity monitoring devices for calories out, you can get a general idea of what it takes to create your own caloric deficit or surplus to meet your goals. But in its simplest form, CICO or Net Calories as a surplus will result in weight gain and as Net Calories as a deficit will cause a weight loss. That basic fundamental concept is not complicated.6 -
The human body obeys the law of energy conservation [20], which can be expressed as
(1)
where ΔU is the change in stored energy in the body, ΔQ is a change in energy input or intake, and ΔW is a change in energy output or expenditure.12 -
Just want to put this out there for some of the newbies, and others that may be a bit confused about the whole concept of "CICO"- Calories in VS Calories Out.
First, CICO is a math formula that will tell you one of three things.
If you want to lose weight, then you need to make your Calories In less than Out = calorie deficit to lose weight.
Second, if you want to maintain then you need of make your calories in = calories out = maintenance to maintain current weight.
Finally, if you want to gain, then you need to make your calories in greater than your calories out = caloric surplus.
CICO is not a way of eating, I repeat CICO is not a way of eating. If you are doing Keto, low carb, moderate protein/moderate carbs, IIFYM, etc and you are gaining, maintaining, or losing weight then you are using the fundamental principle of CICO.
CICO is not eating a diet of 100% "junk," or ignoring nutrition, or not caring about body composition, it is just a math formula that tells you to reach a goal. The formula is not perfect and it requires trial and error, but in the end it works for everyone, period.
If your goal is straight weight loss then you can just apply CICO, and eat less than you burn.
If your goal is to be more lean, or have advanced body composition goals, then you are going to need macro/micro adherence + a structured exercise regimen.
Finally, all calories are equal in that they provide the same measure of energy; however, they do not all contain the same nutritional profile.
YES!!!!
My sister in law drives me INSANE! She's so baffled that I lost 80 pounds, and keeps going from fad diet to fad diet, and with this new one she "can't wait for it to be over so I can eat good food again!"
You don't need a fad diet to lose weight, there is no magic way to lose it, like you said, it's math! Eat less and better, and exercise more and you WILL lose weight! More people need to understand this!8 -
As I stepped on the scale last night and it read 222.....20lbs down from 242lbs in 6 weeks I thought to myself, this is such a simple program The key for me has been to OVERESTIMATE the calories eaten and UNDERESTIMATE any exercise I do. "To thine on self be true" is the code to follow. I chose the most sedentary job catagory as well!. As stated here it is a simple addition & subtraction if your using the correct numbers. And by the way, not all the calories numbers are correct in the library, look at a few items and figure out the real total.
The other truth I have found that makes this program sustainable...If I want to eat more, do more exercise, walk the dogs, hit the machines at gym
Another thing I've learned is that I like to eat at night, I'm learning to skip big breakfasts and lunch to save it for dinner.... unless I know I have a big day of activity and can get away with it
And last but not least I know that when I get to 205 (target weight) I can up my calories to 2500 a day...... BEFORE any exercise.
I'm blown away at how well it has worked, just tracking calories and watching the scale.15 -
The saddest thing about this thread is that the "WHY" of obesity is being argued as if it's one single thing for every individual who has ever suffered from it.
That's really laughable.
There's a Sigma Nutrition podcast with Kevin Hall which touches on this a bit wherein he mentions that these single-cause theories are scientific in that they are hypotheses which can be tested and shown to be false (much in the way that he showed the carbohydrate/insulin theory was false). He himself believes that the likely answer to why people get fat is multi-factorial and therefor, not scientific because they cannot be tested. In other words, there's no one reason that someone will ever hang their hat on and make a lot of money from.
The mechanics (CICO) of weight management have been studied and proven over and over in metabolic ward studies.
The WHY? People who really know what they're talking about are only finding more questions than answers and more and more pieces of the puzzle. It's folly to think that there's any one answer. In fact, I think it's the height of ignorance.16 -
ironheadallen wrote: »As I stepped on the scale last night and it read 222.....20lbs down from 242lbs in 6 weeks I thought to myself, this is such a simple program The key for me has been to OVERESTIMATE the calories eaten and UNDERESTIMATE any exercise I do. "To thine on self be true" is the code to follow. I chose the most sedentary job catagory as well!. As stated here it is a simple addition & subtraction if your using the correct numbers. And by the way, not all the calories numbers are correct in the library, look at a few items and figure out the real total.
The other truth I have found that makes this program sustainable...If I want to eat more, do more exercise, walk the dogs, hit the machines at gym
Another thing I've learned is that I like to eat at night, I'm learning to skip big breakfasts and lunch to save it for dinner.... unless I know I have a big day of activity and can get away with it
And last but not least I know that when I get to 205 (target weight) I can up my calories to 2500 a day...... BEFORE any exercise.
I'm blown away at how well it has worked, just tracking calories and watching the scale.
You obviously have not figured out that you have a 'leaky gut', and your weight loss is an illusion.11 -
ironheadallen wrote: »As I stepped on the scale last night and it read 222.....20lbs down from 242lbs in 6 weeks I thought to myself, this is such a simple program The key for me has been to OVERESTIMATE the calories eaten and UNDERESTIMATE any exercise I do. "To thine on self be true" is the code to follow. I chose the most sedentary job catagory as well!. As stated here it is a simple addition & subtraction if your using the correct numbers. And by the way, not all the calories numbers are correct in the library, look at a few items and figure out the real total.
The other truth I have found that makes this program sustainable...If I want to eat more, do more exercise, walk the dogs, hit the machines at gym
Another thing I've learned is that I like to eat at night, I'm learning to skip big breakfasts and lunch to save it for dinner.... unless I know I have a big day of activity and can get away with it
And last but not least I know that when I get to 205 (target weight) I can up my calories to 2500 a day...... BEFORE any exercise.
I'm blown away at how well it has worked, just tracking calories and watching the scale.
I think many of us were (pleasantly) surprised to discover how simple it can be! Glad you've joined the ranks
All the more reason why it's so *kitten* frustrating when threads that start off so great get completely derailed and twisted by one or two particular users' personal agenda. @ironheadallen 3 -
St Francis is credited with the saying "Preach the gospel at all times and if necessary use words" That holds true for this program, our weight loss is what is important, not telling people that they should try it. AA has another good saying along those lines "Attraction rather than Promotion"....great advice6
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adipace815 wrote: »This is such a fundamentally sound and scientifically proven concept that it is hard to understand why it gets so complicated in these threads. Weight loss occurs when there is a calorie deficit. Weight gain occurs when there is a calories suprlus. MyFitnessPal is a Calorie Counting website to help you calculate and track Calories In versus Calories Out (CICO). This is not complicated. There is no magical weight loss pill, Macronutrient Formula, Fad Diet Concept, Dietary Cleanse... that will impact weight loss/gain. A weight loss only occurs when there is a calorie deficit and a weight gain only occurs when there is a calorie surplus.
The ONLY thing that is complicated is that everyone is different. We are all different height, weight, age, shapes, sizes, muscular make up, activity minded people; some of which also have metabolism altering health conditions. Each of us measure, weigh, digest, metabolize and burn calories different. It can be somewhat complex and most likely impossible to contact exact calories in versus calories out; but it is not necessary to have these numbers 100% accurate. But the tools MFP and our activity monitors give us are the best we can do to estimate our individual numbers.
Ideally, once you have established enough data based on your logging experience for calories in and your activity monitoring devices for calories out, you can get a general idea of what it takes to create your own caloric deficit or surplus to meet your goals. But in its simplest form, CICO or Net Calories as a surplus will result in weight gain and as Net Calories as a deficit will cause a weight loss. That basic fundamental concept is not complicated.
My hypothesis.... it's so simple and fundamentally proven, that it just must be wrong because that is what they want us to believe.
And it doesn't help because you have uneducated MD's trying to play PhD and saying dumb crap like "CICO is false because your body responds differently after you eat a cookie vs fish and veggies".13 -
Not to mention the ODs.
Or is it DO?
Regardless.3
This discussion has been closed.
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