Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Lab Grown Meat... would you?
Options
Replies
-
I guess the image of the square meat package I had in mind was this weird looking perfectly rectangular piece of marbled meat with an almost artificial pink color to it. Tt would look like rib eye or something, but it would be almost loaf like. A loaf of meat in itself is not off-putting. Spam comes in a loaf complete with colorful packaging and weird ingredients. But I know what I am getting which is a loaf of processed meat product. I suppose lab meat would be no different. I imagine putting my square steak loaf into a pan to cook it and expecting steak, then getting... something that's not quite steak. I realize it obviously wouldn't taste the same, but the whole idea of eating something grown in a lab Is off putting to me. What if they were lab grown bananas? It still seems weird and I'm sure the texture and taste would be no where near the same as the real deal. I also imagine they would add a bunch of different ingredients to preserve freshness, and mimic the flavor or texture of real meat. I just can't imagine that they would come out with a product in it's natural form that would look taste and feel exactly like a ribeye, or a chicken breast. They would have to add a bunch of stuff to it to get it as close as possible. It wouldn't be 100% pure lab grown chicken or beef or whatever. I did read the article posted upthread, and it was saying that the first products to hit the market would be things such as chicken nuggets. It wouldn't be whole cuts of meat. That's what I have a hard time imagining(whole cuts of meat). Something like ground meat, or deli meat would likely produce a similar flavor and consistency.0
-
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I guess the image of the square meat package I had in mind was this weird looking perfectly rectangular piece of marbled meat with an almost artificial pink color to it. Tt would look like rib eye or something, but it would be almost loaf like. A loaf of meat in itself is not off-putting. Spam comes in a loaf complete with colorful packaging and weird ingredients. But I know what I am getting which is a loaf of processed meat product. I suppose lab meat would be no different. I imagine putting my square steak loaf into a pan to cook it and expecting steak, then getting... something that's not quite steak. I realize it obviously wouldn't taste the same, but the whole idea of eating something grown in a lab Is off putting to me. What if they were lab grown bananas? It still seems weird and I'm sure the texture and taste would be no where near the same as the real deal. I also imagine they would add a bunch of different ingredients to preserve freshness, and mimic the flavor or texture of real meat. I just can't imagine that they would come out with a product in it's natural form that would look taste and feel exactly like a ribeye, or a chicken breast. They would have to add a bunch of stuff to it to get it as close as possible. It wouldn't be 100% pure lab grown chicken or beef or whatever. I did read the article posted upthread, and it was saying that the first products to hit the market would be things such as chicken nuggets. It wouldn't be whole cuts of meat. That's what I have a hard time imagining(whole cuts of meat). Something like ground meat, or deli meat would likely produce a similar flavor and consistency.
I feel like you're bringing a lot of assumptions about what this product would look and taste like. Why, for example, would they add ingredients to preserve freshness in situations where that isn't already being done for regular meat?
The goal is to grow meat in a lab. We already have meat substitutes that are designed to "mock" the flavor and texture of meat. That seems to be more like what you're imagining here.
Just as a banana grown in a lab would be a banana that grew in a lab, lab-grown meat would be still be meat. I'm unsure why you are so positive they would have to add things to it.
They do have some challenges yet to overcome, but they're working on them. Do we know everything now about how each challenge will be overcome? No, we don't. But we can do all kinds of things today that we couldn't imagine in the past and it's because people took things like this as a challenge to see what could be done.
I think this is more of an emotional reaction (which is okay, as humans we're historically been well-served by a reluctance around new foods or even aversions to them).4 -
That's one reason they're starting with things like burgers and nuggets. Personally, a perfectly square piece of steak sounds so appealing to me! Like living in the future. In fact, that "living in the future" vibe is one of the reasons I'm excited about this product.2
-
I'm OK with it if it tastes good. We eat "lab grown" stuff all the time. Beta Carotene, Bread (Xanthan Gum is lab grown), beer (yeast anyone?), algae (spirulina, astaxanthin, chlorella), yogurt, real sauerkraut. If it tastes good and the process is perfected and safe, I'm game.5
-
@janejellyroll I would agree that my reaction is most definitely emotional. I'm used to eating either meat that I have hunted myself, or that I bought at the store. All of which comes with expectations that I know and am familiar with. I am open minded enough to try any type of food at least once before dismissing it as something I don't like. Although, I have not tried very many meat substitutes before. I have seen them in the store and would have absolutely no idea what to do with them if I took them home to cook. I would try it if someone prepared it for me though. So, if a product like this were to come out on the market, I would give it a go just out of natural curiosity. But the whole idea behind it (lab meat) is still so weird and foreign to me.1
-
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »@janejellyroll I would agree that my reaction is most definitely emotional. I'm used to eating either meat that I have hunted myself, or that I bought at the store. All of which comes with expectations that I know and am familiar with. I am open minded enough to try any type of food at least once before dismissing it as something I don't like. Although, I have not tried very many meat substitutes before. I have seen them in the store and would have absolutely no idea what to do with them if I took them home to cook. I would try it if someone prepared it for me though. So, if a product like this were to come out on the market, I would give it a go just out of natural curiosity. But the whole idea behind it (lab meat) is still so weird and foreign to me.
That makes sense. I think a lot of people feel the way you do about it. It's one of the major barriers to success (other than all the obvious technical issues with creating a quality meat) that I envision.2 -
Why wouldn't I? It would probably take several years (if ever) after becoming commercially available to become widely affordable, but if I were offered to try it for free/on the cheap, I'd try it.0
-
The other reason why I have a hard time visualizing it, is that I'm not sure it would be possible to get an end product with the texture and flavor of a cut of meat. They are trying to create muscle tissue in a lab. Well, the fact that meat is coming from a living, breathing thing is what gives it the flavor and texture that it has. What the animal is doing, what it is eating, and even how it is killed all affect how that animal will taste. I suppose these are the things they would have to hash out before it became a mass produced thing. This is probably why they are going with chicken nuggets as a possible first product. The end result would probably be something that has to be ground up and put into a mold of some sort in order to be palatable. If it was a solid chunk of meat, it would probably resemble those ham or turkey loafs that you can buy in the deli and have them slice. This is why I am suspicious that the end result would not be 100% lab grown beef or chicken or whatever. And if it was in "steak" form, they would have to do something to it to get it to resemble the muscle fibers of that animal as they would be found in nature. I know I am speculating and presuming what the end result would be here. Maybe there could be advancements in technology that would figure that out, but I have my doubts.0
-
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »The other reason why I have a hard time visualizing it, is that I'm not sure it would be possible to get an end product with the texture and flavor of a cut of meat. They are trying to create muscle tissue in a lab. Well, the fact that meat is coming from a living, breathing thing is what gives it the flavor and texture that it has. What the animal is doing, what it is eating, and even how it is killed all affect how that animal will taste. I suppose these are the things they would have to hash out before it became a mass produced thing. This is probably why they are going with chicken nuggets as a possible first product. The end result would probably be something that has to be ground up and put into a mold of some sort in order to be palatable. If it was a solid chunk of meat, it would probably resemble those ham or turkey loafs that you can buy in the deli and have them slice. This is why I am suspicious that the end result would not be 100% lab grown beef or chicken or whatever. And if it was in "steak" form, they would have to do something to it to get it to resemble the muscle fibers of that animal as they would be found in nature. I know I am speculating and presuming what the end result would be here. Maybe there could be advancements in technology that would figure that out, but I have my doubts.
The texture and flavor related to muscle are the specific things they're working on.
Keep in mind, this isn't something they're planning on putting on shelves next week (that I'm aware of). The things you're thinking of are all legitimate technical issues to consider, but they are technical issues that the companies working on this have already thought it.
When I went vegan ten years ago, the idea of a vegan cheese that melted seemed ridiculous. But now it's fairly commonplace. And they didn't even have serious scientists working on that one! Egg substitutes have also progressed amazingly in the past decade. To think that we'll *never* be able to tackle this problem when we're walked on the moon and almost eradicated polio just doesn't ring true to me. We're a species of problem-solvers (who also frequently create other problems when we're solving stuff).2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »[quote="Crafty_camper123;c-41750598" To think that we'll *never* be able to tackle this problem when we're walked on the moon and almost eradicated polio just doesn't ring true to me. We're a species of problem-solvers (who also frequently create other problems when we're solving stuff).
How very true! We as humans may come up with something that would completely blow our minds. Like I said earlier due to the fact it is created in a controlled setting, they could come up with a meat that is always perfectly marbled and fork tender. But there are limitations to biology in general and what they could probably do with it in a lab setting. They make gemstones that are molecularly identical to what is mined from our ground. They are of a higher quality and more perfect then mined gemstones since there aren't any imperfections or inclusions in them. I suppose it's possible they could eventually do the same with biological matter such has meat, or plants even.2 -
The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.
The Huffpost.com must be a "conspiracy" website also since the published an article about a study, jointly conducted by The Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the National Association for Gene Security.
Here is a excerpt: "Surov’s hamsters are just the latest animals to suffer from reproductive disorders after consuming GMOs. In 2005, Irina Ermakova, also with the Russian National Academy of Sciences, reported that more than half the babies from mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks. This was also five times higher than the 10% death rate of the non-GMO soy group. The babies in the GM group were also smaller (see photo) and could not reproduce."
I am always willing to look at any topic from both sides, that being said, please forward the research paper that disproves each assertion, with back up studies, in the original research mentioned in this article. Thanks.3 -
The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.
The Huffpost.com must be a "conspiracy" website also since the published an article about a study, jointly conducted by The Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the National Association for Gene Security.
Here is a excerpt: "Surov’s hamsters are just the latest animals to suffer from reproductive disorders after consuming GMOs. In 2005, Irina Ermakova, also with the Russian National Academy of Sciences, reported that more than half the babies from mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks. This was also five times higher than the 10% death rate of the non-GMO soy group. The babies in the GM group were also smaller (see photo) and could not reproduce."
I am always willing to look at any topic from both sides, that being said, please forward the research paper that disproves each assertion, with back up studies, in the original research mentioned in this article. Thanks.
Actually Huffpost is a tabloid, kind of like the Daily Mail or National Enquirer. They do however often republish clickbait articles from conspiracy theory sites.
The study you are referencing is interestingly not available in English, and was undertaken by an org whose goal seems to be anti-GMO. All I could find in English is of all things a vegan blog, breaking down why the study isn't anything to pay attention to. I'm not sure which is more useful to know - that the "study" was conducted on 20 whole hamsters, or that the infertility results were far more likely caused by the continuous inbreeding of said hamsters.
http://veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/10/alexey-surov-and-gm-soy-recurrent-tale.html
An important part of researching a topic is vetting sources. I have no idea if this blogspot blog is giving accurate info, but it seems no less trustworthy than the original "study", and I don't have the time or interest to track down the Russian text and run it through a translator.4 -
If the taste and price is right sure. Even if it is slightly more expensive if it tastes good I'd consider it for ethical/environmental reasons. I imagine they have a lot of work though to get it to taste equivalent.
There is a reason they are making it into hamburger though. Hamburger is ground beef where the grinding disrupts the overall texture of the meat. Meat cultured in this particular technique would not have any texture so the closest thing they can try to mimic is another textureless meat which is hamburger. When you are talking lab grown meat you aren't going to be talking a steak because a steak is going to be a mix of fat and muscle tissue in a particular structure that creates a particular taste and texture they aren't going to be able to mimic with this method. One thing is with this method it would be 100% lean meat, no fat at all. That and the issue with texture is probably why the taste is a bit off.
Also there is a lot of detail missing with this video. The original stem cell is immortal and can be cultured indefinitely but when it differentiates into primary myoblasts then those cells are no longer immortal and cannot be cultured indefinitely. Unless they make an immortalized cell line which I don't think they'd really want to do. So the picture of a single myocyte being used to culture trillions is not accurate or is some sort of misrepresentation of what they are actually doing.
2 -
My mind immediately goes to, why grow/make/raise meat in a LAB? What kind of lab? What kind of meat? Define 'meat'. Is it pieces parts squished together?
Nope. Just too many unknowns for me.1 -
Gross!0
-
-
The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.stanmann571 wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.
I'd suggest millennia, but that doesn't invalidate your point.
No, Commercial sale of genetically modified foods began in 1994, when Calgene first marketed its unsuccessful Flavr Savr delayed-ripening tomato. Please site your sources that GMO crops have been growing for "millennia"?5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
What studies are you referring to here?
You realize that lab-grown meat wouldn't necessarily be genetically modified, right?
The study I am referring to is the following:
Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the National Association for Gene Security.
Excerpt: "Surov’s hamsters are just the latest animals to suffer from reproductive disorders after consuming GMOs. In 2005, Irina Ermakova, also with the Russian National Academy of Sciences, reported that more than half the babies from mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks. This was also five times higher than the 10% death rate of the non-GMO soy group. The babies in the GM group were also smaller (see photo) and could not reproduce."2 -
The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
What studies are you referring to here?
You realize that lab-grown meat wouldn't necessarily be genetically modified, right?
The study I am referring to is the following:
Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the National Association for Gene Security.
Excerpt: "Surov’s hamsters are just the latest animals to suffer from reproductive disorders after consuming GMOs. In 2005, Irina Ermakova, also with the Russian National Academy of Sciences, reported that more than half the babies from mother rats fed GM soy died within three weeks. This was also five times higher than the 10% death rate of the non-GMO soy group. The babies in the GM group were also smaller (see photo) and could not reproduce."
Obscure rat study vs 29 year study with billions of subjects
https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/taking-stock/2014/10/02/100-billion-animals-what-the-data-say-about-ge-feeds1 -
The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.stanmann571 wrote: »The_Hiking_Viking wrote: »I would absolutely not eat this lab grown meat or anything gmo if all possible. What people fail to understand is how these engineered foods can affect and irreparibly harm the genetics of you during your life and generations after you. For example GMO soy in rat studies has shown decreasing fertility each generation until the babies are eventually sterile. See articles on naturalnews.com. As the food supply continues to be polluted dna and epigenetic damage will be the result. Eating this stuff has far reaching inter-generational consequences. The best weapon is information, I reccomend you do your research.
Food has been genetically modified for generations and the planet is still over crowded, so I find that danger highly unlikely to be true.
naturalnews is a conspiracy theory website. Snopes could spin off an entirely new website just debunking everything naturalnews publishes.
On a positive note, I think once Bigfoot finally reveals himself, he'll be supportive of lab grown meat, as a self preservation tactic.
I'd suggest millennia, but that doesn't invalidate your point.
No, Commercial sale of genetically modified foods began in 1994, when Calgene first marketed its unsuccessful Flavr Savr delayed-ripening tomato. Please site your sources that GMO crops have been growing for "millennia"?
Corn, Wheat, Oranges, Apples. All GMO... All over 1000 years ago. Those are just the obvious and easy to prove ones.
3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 389 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 919 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions