Lying to your doctor

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Replies

  • LowCarb4Me2016
    LowCarb4Me2016 Posts: 575 Member
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    In America, the American Medical Association wants doctors to ask clinical patients to disclose information about their ownership of firearms.

    What???

    Why?

    Not a firearms owner, just wondering what the tie-in could possibly be here.

    Presumably, the follow-up question to a "yes" should be "Have you taken a gun safety course?" Assuming the answer to that question is "yes", move along. Guns in households where people haven't learned how to handle them safely are certainly a health issue.

    So are steak knives with habitually drunk paranoid boyfriends in the household prone to making hysterical and baseless accusations about infidelity.

    So are common baseball bats when personality disordered teens live in the household who keep being returned to mother and stepdad after being sent to juvie for 48 hours for ripping the doors off the hinges and kicking the cat.

    Yes, and I'd assume that there are questions getting at the possibility of habitually drunk paranoid boyfriends or personality disordered teens. ("Do you fear anyone that you interact with on a regular basis?", for example.) Just as I'd expect a question about knives being kept out of reach of young children. Doctors tend to have *really* long lists of questions looking to establish potential health risks. And if I have to answer a stupid question about whether or not my 18 month old can stack blocks horizontally*, I don't see why it's a bad thing to check whether or not gun safety is a thing in households with guns. You want to say "none of your business"? Fine. No harm in them asking.

    *How do you even stack something HORIZONTALLY? That's not stacking! It's a stupid question! So, with the first kid I answered an honest "I don't know" and they wanted to test him for developmental issues he doesn't have. With the second kid, we're just saying "yes". :tongue:

    My girls and I are all asked if all of our needs are met at home and if we are being abused. Presumably if someone is answering honestly, the gun thing might come up.

    I have never been asked this particular question and would be shocked if I were, but I have been asked other "safety" questions - i.e. smoke detectors (I mentioned this above); whether we use car seats for our children (WTH??? "Do you keep your children in car seats?" "No, we put them in the trunk" - OMG, I wouldn't dare, I'd be worried about CPS being called but damn it's tempting sometimes to answer "Are you a horrible, ignorant parent? Just checking" questions sarcastically), and so on.

    I've never been asked about smoke detectors for me or my kids. Mine are almost 17 so no car seats, though you'd think the doc would ask about seat belts, especially since I have to answer it for health insurance reasons :/ . I've had plenty of "you're a bad parent" questions and comments, though, and have had to bite my tongue a few times, lol. Basically you're either not doing enough or you're overreacting.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    I can't say I've ever been asked if I own a firearm.

    My son's pediatrician asks every time we go in. I answer truthfully, "yes, I own guns. My husband owns guns. My son has three guns of his own." She's a (very nice) hippie granola, and freaks out, every time. :D

    It's all fun and games freaking out the hippies until it goes into the permanent medical database that is never, ever, ever erased or destroyed.

    Of course we are assured that we are carefully protected by HIPAA, we can 100% trust our caring medical professionals, and that only evil people who have anything to hide have a reason to be afraid. So obviously we have no reason to EVER lie to our loving doctors, or even be concerned that we might be flagged as "hostile and noncompliant" for leaving a particular field blank or suggesting they mind their business.

    And obviously, that information would never be passed on to, say, a health or life insurer (who happens to have access to your personal records via the MIB database for hundreds of assorted drugs and behaviors, including "hazardous lifestyle codes,"), and that corporate interests would never (gasp!) cut a deal with any government entity to force social change by rating or declining anyone with a history of firearms ownership.

    Wait until questions about animal products and sugar, with their concomitant embedded political/social justice judgments, are included in the questionnaires. "Oh, you enjoy a weekly ice cream and have eaten bacon in the last month? You are uninsurable and I am dropping you as a patient, because you are obviously the debbil based on this one movie I saw. Thanks for not lying to me, though."

    Medicine is an impressively vicious and effective tool when wielded to achieve political ends.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Gee. Your finger stick blood sugar reads 497.

    Take it again! Take it in my other finger on the other hand!

    Okay. I get 503 this time. Did you eat anything like ice cream or pizza recently? Like the ice cream and pizza they're serving on the 1st floor leftover from the birthday party?

    NO! All I had was a cup of black coffee. Check your machine! It always gives bad readings. Cheap piece of junk!

    You literally have some nurse or other individual routinely pricking people's fingers and handling their blood in the office??? Bringing in the same "machine" each time (your reference to how it "always" gives bad readings)? This happens?

    I honest to God have never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine the S-storm of someone getting sick and suing the office for throwing the employees' blood around. Anything could happen, or at least be accused to have happened, under circumstances of handling blood in a public, non-hospital/non-medical place that way. Just odd.

    How often do they prick your blood? Is this a routine thing? I just have never heard of this.

    p.s. As much as it may be human nature to lie to cover faults, it is equally human nature to use hyperbole to draw positive comparisons of oneself to others. It's one way to keep insisting to ourselves that we are superior, and alone; the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world is inferior, and bumbling, and stupid, and oaf-like (i.e. the screaming, raging, 500+ BG - wouldn't that person be dead? Or no..? - idiot slamming cake into his face and screaming that he never ate a thing). The fact that a majority of people tend to be the one, singular, enlightened non-oaf simply is the opposite of logic, given simple math, doesn't seem to stop the practice.

    We're seeing all sorts of aspects of human nature on this thread...it's actually kind of interesting.

    I don't know about @newmeadow, but I work for a health care system. I am a doctor, but not of the medical variety. This was standard practice where I work. Once a year quasi-physicals and flu vaccines (required) i.e. check fasting blood sugar, cholesterol and triglyceride levels and ask some basic health history questions. I have lied to those people:

    'Are you fasted?'

    'Uh, sure.' (If you don't count the bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios I ate 30min ago because I forgot we were doing this today. Oh, look my blood glucose is sitting just under 100. Good, it dropped just enough to not be flagged and need a re-test).

    They quit doing that a couple of years ago and now we have to hassle with getting actual yearly physical results faxed in - a serious pain with some docs. We still have them come around for the vaccines.


    Anywho, I have no problem believing the percentage. Part of my job is participating in managing clinical trials. The lying that is discovered is easily up in those ranges and mostly these people have no real incentive to do it other than not looking bad. These aren't things that would have gotten them excluded from the study (that I can understand, though it's stupid and can put you at high risk of harm or death). Things like 'no, I don't smoke, don't use a patch, etc' in a vaccine efficacy trial. Or, 'yes I'm still taking my meds' when they've had an autoimmune flare.
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,923 Member
    Sometimes its hard not to lie or omit. My dr. asks me if I eat a well balanced diet. She doesn't define what that is. So I say "Sure. Usually? I don't know, I did eat a whole box of Kraft Dinner for dinner yesterday but I guess I don't do that everyday" And she always just moves on instead of defining it. When I do ask what she means she says "do you eat veggies?" Well sure. But how many or how often do you want me to do that? There's just not enough time to go back and forth and my memory about my diet just isn't that good during appointments.
  • CatchMom11
    CatchMom11 Posts: 462 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    I've previously spent too much time answering standard questions that had nothing to do with the issue I went to see the doctor about that we ran out of time for the actual issue. So now I use my judgment as to how comprehensive my answers should be and if I want to go down an irrelevant rabbit hole.

    How do you run out of time for the issue that you went to the doctor for? Or is that answering all those questions in length gets you sidetracked? I'm trying to understand.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    In America, the American Medical Association wants doctors to ask clinical patients to disclose information about their ownership of firearms.

    What???

    Why?

    Not a firearms owner, just wondering what the tie-in could possibly be here.

    Here's a piece about a FL law that discusses the underlying reasons:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/doctors-cant-ask-about-guns/375566/

    That's an interesting article--it has some good basic information after you sort through the rhetorical appeals to ethos and pathos. Interestingly, they are just prevented from asking (and then entering the info in a permanent database)....it doesn't seem like they are prevented from *telling* each and every patient that gun safety is an important consideration, and then giving them a handy one-page pamphlet on the subject, including training and gun safety resources. Then they have their freedom of speech without violating privacy. I suspect that the real thing they want is the database, however.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    stealthq wrote: »
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Gee. Your finger stick blood sugar reads 497.

    Take it again! Take it in my other finger on the other hand!

    Okay. I get 503 this time. Did you eat anything like ice cream or pizza recently? Like the ice cream and pizza they're serving on the 1st floor leftover from the birthday party?

    NO! All I had was a cup of black coffee. Check your machine! It always gives bad readings. Cheap piece of junk!

    You literally have some nurse or other individual routinely pricking people's fingers and handling their blood in the office??? Bringing in the same "machine" each time (your reference to how it "always" gives bad readings)? This happens?

    I honest to God have never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine the S-storm of someone getting sick and suing the office for throwing the employees' blood around. Anything could happen, or at least be accused to have happened, under circumstances of handling blood in a public, non-hospital/non-medical place that way. Just odd.

    How often do they prick your blood? Is this a routine thing? I just have never heard of this.

    p.s. As much as it may be human nature to lie to cover faults, it is equally human nature to use hyperbole to draw positive comparisons of oneself to others. It's one way to keep insisting to ourselves that we are superior, and alone; the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world is inferior, and bumbling, and stupid, and oaf-like (i.e. the screaming, raging, 500+ BG - wouldn't that person be dead? Or no..? - idiot slamming cake into his face and screaming that he never ate a thing). The fact that a majority of people tend to be the one, singular, enlightened non-oaf simply is the opposite of logic, given simple math, doesn't seem to stop the practice.

    We're seeing all sorts of aspects of human nature on this thread...it's actually kind of interesting.

    I don't know about @newmeadow, but I work for a health care system. I am a doctor, but not of the medical variety. This was standard practice where I work. Once a year quasi-physicals and flu vaccines (required) i.e. check fasting blood sugar, cholesterol and triglyceride levels and ask some basic health history questions. I have lied to those people:

    'Are you fasted?'

    'Uh, sure.' (If you don't count the bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios I ate 30min ago because I forgot we were doing this today. Oh, look my blood glucose is sitting just under 100. Good, it dropped just enough to not be flagged and need a re-test).

    They quit doing that a couple of years ago and now we have to hassle with getting actual yearly physical results faxed in - a serious pain with some docs. We still have them come around for the vaccines.


    Anywho, I have no problem believing the percentage. Part of my job is participating in managing clinical trials. The lying that is discovered is easily up in those ranges and mostly these people have no real incentive to do it other than not looking bad. These aren't things that would have gotten them excluded from the study (that I can understand, though it's stupid and can put you at high risk of harm or death). Things like 'no, I don't smoke, don't use a patch, etc' in a vaccine efficacy trial. Or, 'yes I'm still taking my meds' when they've had an autoimmune flare.

    My MIL is in a clinical trial and was asking my husband, a chemist, if he could analyze the drug she was taking to see if she was placebo group or not. Of course Mr. Ethical said no, but--LOL on the attempt to completely undermine the concept of a randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled trial!! :D
  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,874 Member
    edited April 2017
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    I can't say I've ever been asked if I own a firearm.

    I haven't either. I looked it up because I didn't believe it was a thing, but I guess it is.

    I've been asked. It was during a well-child visit for my son.

    ETA - I didn't lie. I think I may have snorted a little before re-assuming a straight face and answering, 'Yes, we do.' My husband was deployed overseas at the time.
  • LAWoman72
    LAWoman72 Posts: 2,846 Member
    edited April 2017
    CatchMom13 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    I've previously spent too much time answering standard questions that had nothing to do with the issue I went to see the doctor about that we ran out of time for the actual issue. So now I use my judgment as to how comprehensive my answers should be and if I want to go down an irrelevant rabbit hole.

    How do you run out of time for the issue that you went to the doctor for? Or is that answering all those questions in length gets you sidetracked? I'm trying to understand.

    I'm not the person you asked, but I can say that after waiting an hour to see my doctor (too bad I can't charge her for my time) and knowing the bus is due to pull up at my house in 15 minutes or 10 minutes or whatever (and BTW, if you're not there for the bus, the bus driver keeps the child for the entire rest of the route, returns him to school and the police are called since you've been so neglectful), or some other such time-crunch based on long waits and "oh, we're so backed up"s and "sit there in this cocktail napkin, the doctor will be right in" silently subtitled "sit there in this cocktail napkin, the doctor will be in in probably 25-35 minutes while you sit here freezing," I have many, many times run out of time with my doctors beyond the absolute literal minimum. I'm generally helped along with this by many a doctor's "oh I'm so busy busy busy, hurry and tell me your complaint" attitude. So me getting the frak out of Dodge in a hurry works for both of us.

    I mean there's always the option of asking to make a new appointment since you really HAVE to go now and being told certainly, there's one 11 weeks from now. For the UTI you have today. Unless you want to go to the ER where you'll pay a $50-100 copay to sit and wait for six hours to pee in a cup. You've gotta love options.

    So it all works out...



  • LAWoman72
    LAWoman72 Posts: 2,846 Member
    stealthq wrote: »
    LAWoman72 wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Gee. Your finger stick blood sugar reads 497.

    Take it again! Take it in my other finger on the other hand!

    Okay. I get 503 this time. Did you eat anything like ice cream or pizza recently? Like the ice cream and pizza they're serving on the 1st floor leftover from the birthday party?

    NO! All I had was a cup of black coffee. Check your machine! It always gives bad readings. Cheap piece of junk!

    You literally have some nurse or other individual routinely pricking people's fingers and handling their blood in the office??? Bringing in the same "machine" each time (your reference to how it "always" gives bad readings)? This happens?

    I honest to God have never heard of such a thing. I can't imagine the S-storm of someone getting sick and suing the office for throwing the employees' blood around. Anything could happen, or at least be accused to have happened, under circumstances of handling blood in a public, non-hospital/non-medical place that way. Just odd.

    How often do they prick your blood? Is this a routine thing? I just have never heard of this.

    p.s. As much as it may be human nature to lie to cover faults, it is equally human nature to use hyperbole to draw positive comparisons of oneself to others. It's one way to keep insisting to ourselves that we are superior, and alone; the overwhelming majority of the rest of the world is inferior, and bumbling, and stupid, and oaf-like (i.e. the screaming, raging, 500+ BG - wouldn't that person be dead? Or no..? - idiot slamming cake into his face and screaming that he never ate a thing). The fact that a majority of people tend to be the one, singular, enlightened non-oaf simply is the opposite of logic, given simple math, doesn't seem to stop the practice.

    We're seeing all sorts of aspects of human nature on this thread...it's actually kind of interesting.

    I don't know about @newmeadow, but I work for a health care system. I am a doctor, but not of the medical variety. This was standard practice where I work. Once a year quasi-physicals and flu vaccines (required) i.e. check fasting blood sugar, cholesterol and triglyceride levels and ask some basic health history questions. I have lied to those people:

    'Are you fasted?'

    'Uh, sure.' (If you don't count the bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios I ate 30min ago because I forgot we were doing this today. Oh, look my blood glucose is sitting just under 100. Good, it dropped just enough to not be flagged and need a re-test).

    They quit doing that a couple of years ago and now we have to hassle with getting actual yearly physical results faxed in - a serious pain with some docs. We still have them come around for the vaccines.


    Anywho, I have no problem believing the percentage. Part of my job is participating in managing clinical trials. The lying that is discovered is easily up in those ranges and mostly these people have no real incentive to do it other than not looking bad. These aren't things that would have gotten them excluded from the study (that I can understand, though it's stupid and can put you at high risk of harm or death). Things like 'no, I don't smoke, don't use a patch, etc' in a vaccine efficacy trial. Or, 'yes I'm still taking my meds' when they've had an autoimmune flare.

    My MIL is in a clinical trial and was asking my husband, a chemist, if he could analyze the drug she was taking to see if she was placebo group or not. Of course Mr. Ethical said no, but--LOL on the attempt to completely undermine the concept of a randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled trial!! :D

    That sounds like something I'd ask. I'm the curious sort.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,297 Member
    Also in the UK you have to fit the permitted boxes to achieve a good standard of health support. NICE, the organisation which tells the NHS where money is best spent knows there is no point in testing thyroid/endocrine function properly. The issues are so very trivial that it does not need proper testing. Proper investigations of all persons with possible symptoms would improve the quality of life of many, increase the length of working lives, cut down on the need for major and minor heart surgery, cut down on high blood pressure, diabetes and other maladies of the digestive tract, not to mention mental health problems. Thyroid function is responsible for cell reproduction, t3 medication is used along with some cancer treatments, pregnancies can fail for poor thyroid function, conception compromised, low thyroid function contributes to endometrial cancer, women are more disposed to other low thyroid problems, Fibro, ME Chronic fatigue, chemical sensitivity and more because the system to eliminate toxins is compromised, as I say the possible outcomes are so dammed trivial.

    Properly treated our hospital waiting lists would be shorter, doctors would be less overworked. Invalidity problems would be reduced and so very much more. With 300 symptoms proper treatment would cost much less than no effective treatment for many.

    No, I never lied to my doctor nor did keeping countless appointments do my health any good. I'm fortunate I could go outside the NHS and have a totally different enjoyable life because I paid for the tests I needed. I grew up believing if I paid my National Insurance the NHS would help me if I had health needs, free at the point of need, but the exception is not if you are hypothyroid which is probably Hashimoto's but the system is not permitted to care and treat respectfully.


    Thyroid UK and other countries support sites, as well as Stop the Thyroid Madness, and many other support sites have all the information I suggest above.