May 2017 Running Challenge
Replies
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May totals:
103.8 running miles (3.8 over goal)
129.2 walking miles
233 total miles
Also, I picked up my packet today for my Saturday 10k. This is really happening. But I'll save that for June!11 -
I have a question.
I've been eating at a deficit. And running is HARD. So fuel the run, right?
What's the advantage/disadvantage? How is running on a deficit different from training your body to burn fat? I can't see that it is. Other than its HARD.
If I have a GU or candy sprees before a run, I'll probably be able to run farther, maybe faster. 100 calories isn't going to fuel my run, but it'll prime the pump, right? Then I'll burn more calories and get more out of my training?
TL:DR What's your take on running for weight loss? How can I make that work with out being exhausted?
Disclaimer: I'm not the greatest expert on running and losing weight, as I got close to initial goal before I became a runner. Then I spent 12 weeks learning to stop losing weight, while my running went up to maybe 15 to 20 miles per week. By the time my running got regular and serious, I was in maintenance and making the weight trend sideways.
That said, I have a theory. Short version: The cure to most beginner running problems is, run slower. I think the cure to the lack of energy while running problem is, lose weight slower.
It is well understood that you lose weight by consuming fewer calories than you burn. What is less commonly understood is that all the numbers that are commonly used are *estimates* and many of them aren't very accurate estimates.
The baseline metabolism burn is an estimate based off broad population averages, and you may not be close to the average.
The calories you eat are based off statistical studies. Do the 100 grams of grapes I ate this afternoon contain more water (and fewer calories) than the grapes the study was based on, or the reverse? Did I accurately measure the tablespoon of dressing for my salad, or did I put a little more on? Was the Subway sandwich I ate for dinner made exactly to spec, or was there a bit more or a bit less of the high calorie ingredients? If you eat the same kinds of things, measured the same way most of the time, you'll have a consistent but not necessarily accurate number. If you have a lot of variety in your diet, what you call 1500 calories on Wednesday may not be the same amount of energy as what you call 1500 calories on Thursday.
Calories burned by exercise are even worse. Garmin and Strava will report different calorie burn numbers for the same run, based on the same data measured by the same watch and HRM. The differences are non-trivial. MFP happens to grab the Garmin numbers, which tend to be lower; but if I forget to use the HRM, the Garmin number will be higher than if I wear the HRM.
Long story short, I don't really know with precision either how many calories I eat or how many I burn. This doesn't matter so much in the weight loss phase, as long as I have a bias toward a deficit. In maintenance, it means I can't use the calculated maintenance calories. I need to watch the scale for trends, and adjust what I eat up or down in response to weight trends down or up.
Extrapolating this to the weight loss phase and adding in running, feeling tired all the time may mean that you actually have a bigger calorie deficit than designed. Eat a bit more, enough to not feel tired all the time. Watch the scale. If it's going down by a half pound a week, well and good. Live with losing weight slowly. If it's going down by 2 pounds a week, that would be an explanation for why you don't have enough energy to run. You're not eating enough to support the running habit.
YMMV. Experts with real knowledge may disagree with me. Void where prohibited by law.11 -
Kind of a fail this month but such is life
. See everybody in June!
May 1- Rest
May 2- 14.2
May 3- Rest
May 4- 14.5
May 5- 18.8
May 6- 8
May 7- 23.3
May 8-Rest
May 9- 15.7
May 10- Rest
May 11- 15.7
May 12- Rest
May 13- 15.7
May 14- Rest
May 15- 11
May 18- 8.1
May 19- Off
May 20- 4
May 21- Red Deer Marathon 4:11:58
May 22- Off
May 23- Off
May 24- Off
May 25- 15
May 26- 7.2
May 29- 15.7
May 31- 6.5
235.6/300km
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First month doing this challenge is over!
Went from having trouble even completing a 5K to running it in sub 26 minutes and now near the end of the month running 40+ minutes at 6.5MPH on my last two runs when I could barely run for 10 minutes straight at the start of the month.
I think I'm going to workout with the goal of running at least one 5KM race and one 10KM race before the end of the summer.
I didn't meet my goal for this month but that is all right, I am putting my goal even higher for next month because I would have easily met it if I was running like I am these days.
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juliet3455 wrote: »Some enter events just for the excuse to travel ( my local friend Dianne - not on MFP) , collect a Race Bib, Finisher Medal and a Unique Shirt.
Others enter events for the additional Training Motivation from a hard date on a calendar.
Have Fun and Run - just a little further than last month/year.First month doing this challenge is over!
I think I'm going to workout with the goal of running at least one 5KM race and one 10KM race before the end of the summer. I didn't meet my goal for this month but that is all right, I am putting my goal even higher for next month because I would have easily met it if I was running like I am these days.
@nFoooo Not often I get to Quote myself because it follows and supports the comments of a fellow runner.
Good Job - glad to see that you are able to recognize the accomplishment and gains you have made in a short time. The Goal of a 5km and 10km race
. One of the reason I register and run events is the Hard Date on a calendar which really gives me a boost in my Training and Motivation.
Run On , Now just to find a Shoe Sale as the K's are piling up.1 -
May goal: wear sunblock
5/1: sat on my okole. All. Day. Long.
5/2: 3.13
5/3: 6.06
5/4: 4.08
5/5 rest
5/6: 4.15
5/7 3.56
5/8 snorkel 3.5 hours
5/9 4.58
5/10 3.38
5/11 rest
5/12 3.25
5/13 life
5/14 6.40
5/15 4.13
5/16 3.30
5/17 3.00
5/18 rest
5/19 3.50
5/20 4.03
5/21 4.05
5/22 snorkel 3 hours
5/23 rest
5/24 6.29
5/25 3.20
5/26 lazy
5/27 4.20
5/28 sick
5/29 4.10
5/30 sick
5/31 2.75
Total: 81.14
Ticker is my goal for 2017 and progress to date:
upcoming races:
Volcano Rainforest Runs 10k 8/19
BlockThe Sun Run 5k Oct 14 (https://walk.aimatmelanoma.org/Hilo2017) (physical and virtual options available)
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I've got a whole bunch of FB friend requests now. But I don't know if they're people wanting to join our FB group! Madly busy, PM me here with your FB name if you've sent a request and haven't been added to the group. Sorry!0
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I have a question.
I've been eating at a deficit. And running is HARD. So fuel the run, right?
What's the advantage/disadvantage? How is running on a deficit different from training your body to burn fat? I can't see that it is. Other than its HARD.
If I have a GU or candy sprees before a run, I'll probably be able to run farther, maybe faster. 100 calories isn't going to fuel my run, but it'll prime the pump, right? Then I'll burn more calories and get more out of my training?
TL:DR What's your take on running for weight loss? How can I make that work with out being exhausted?
......
Extrapolating this to the weight loss phase and adding in running, feeling tired all the time may mean that you actually have a bigger calorie deficit than designed. Eat a bit more, enough to not feel tired all the time. Watch the scale. If it's going down by a half pound a week, well and good. Live with losing weight slowly. If it's going down by 2 pounds a week, that would be an explanation for why you don't have enough energy to run. You're not eating enough to support the running habit.
YMMV. Experts with real knowledge may disagree with me. Void where prohibited by law.
I have about 10-15lb to lose, and when I started taking running seriously I was still trying to have a deficit. But my running started to suffer. So as @Mobycarp says, the thing to do is reduce the deficit, and keep an eye on it by following your weight trend. I have the added issue in that I am pretty short, so any calorie deficit is only ever going to be quite small and therefore logging and calorie burn figures would need to be accurate. But in the real world neither of those figures are ever going to be accurate.
My priorities lately have been to ensure I have enough energy for runs and activities. This may mean putting any focus on weight loss to one side but at the same time it doesn't have to mean you WON'T lose weight. It's been trial and error for me, and I can safely say I'm not really losing much at the moment - but then again I'm not putting ON weight.
I have a fitbit, and what I try and do is match my calorie intake through the day to be roughly what my fitbit says is my calorie burn. As my fitbit averages over the entire day, this means that by the time I get into bed, I will still be burning calories and no longer matching the intake, thus maintaining a small deficit. I use a weight trend app but it can be tricky given that some days this will be affected by water weight/muscle usage etc.
Nutritionally I KNOW when I've made bad choices - my body feels so much better on lots of vegetables and lighter foods rather than pizza. I mean, pizza is great, but not too much of it. I actually WOULDN'T go down the eat a GU before the run idea. I would just increase your normal food intake slightly, and maybe even adjust the times you are eating (so perhaps eat more calories earlier in the day) to help fuel the run.
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Congratulations everyone who completed the challenge!
I wasn't aware the month ended yesterday, time flies. And since I haven't updated the past 10 days I had to check every excercise entry in mfp to update my tracker.
I ran 141 miles/ 227 km or a little more than that but I don't remember with accuracy. I wasn't sure I could run that much. For june I'm going to run 155 miles / 250 Km.
@nFoooo Good job! Keep improving and surpasing your limits! It's a cool surprise what our bodies can do.
@Elise4270 I tend to have large deficits of 1000 cal some days. In my experience, I felt pretty tired at the end of my runs if I ran while fasting or eating too little, strangely I loss the hunger after excercise. But when I eat properly I feel with more stamina and less stressed at the end, I think recovery is faster too.
You may endure more if you eat properly and aren't hungry but there's other factor as @MobyCarp pointed, the tiredness can also had to do with the intensity of the excercise. Other thing to consider is that some people tend to eat more when they excercise specially if their excercise is hard so losing weight can be more difficult with intense than with moderate excercise.
If you find it too hard you can try smaller deficits of 10% or even 5% with an 80/20 program.1 -
2/5 - 3.2
4/5 - 3.2
6/5 - 3.3
7/5-3.3
8/5 - 3.3
9/5 - 3.2
11/5 - 4.0
13/5 - 4.0
15/5 - 4.0
16/5 - 4.0
17/5-3.0
18/5 - 5.5
19/5-REST
20/5 - 5.7
21/5-3.5
22/5 - 5.4
23/5-3.3
24/5-3.6
25/5-5.4
26/5 - REST
27/5-3.6
28/5-4.4
29/4/3.2
30/7-4.5
total - 85.5/80 miles -Woop I did it!!3 -
Work and life have been busy but I have been running as a relief of stress. Hope everyone is doing good. I'm behind 166 posts! I'm going to try to catch up this weekend. Have a blessed day and good running everyone!3 -
@MobyCarp @girlinahat @PinkamenaD8
Thanks for the insight. I suppose I could up the calories a bit and up the runs even more. I've been at this for a few years and haven't lost (on the scale). So I'm real good at maintenance . Or maybe 2-3 weeks at a time at a deficit and a week eating maintenance to recover. Maybe I could add some calories from better foods- but I'm struggling to like anything that isn't fatty right now- avocado, cheese, olives...
I use the trend app too. It's great. It's finally trending down. But hormones, salt, carbs, dehydration play havoc with that trend and I get "wtf"?
@MobyCarp I can't run very far yet. 1-2 miles on a good cool day. Right now I'm barely making a quarter of a mile before I'm sucking wind. Of course, it's hot, 90+. But I know it shouldn't be that hard to do a slow mile in the heat. So I see I need to do something different...
Enough of my ramblings... I think I have an idea how to make it work better.
Thanks all1 -
@Elise4270 - Fantastic advice so far! I had the same problem. Some of my runs were miserable. Here's what I have done, but since each person is different, I can't be sure it will help you as well as it did for me.
1. I stopped running fasted in the morning. I used to run first thing in the morning before taking in any calories. The reason was to "increase fat burning potential" on future runs. It seemed logical. The problem is that when I looked into it the science did not back it up. You will have higher potential to burn more fat on *that* run while fasted, but you're future non-fasted runs do not see an increase in fat burning ability compared to runners who never ran fasted. So there is no long term metabolic adaptation, there is just that slightly more miserable run in a fasted state that offers a barely noticeable increase in fat burn on just that run. Knowing this, I stopped subjecting myself to that. I run in the morning about 30-60 minutes after having a mocha made at home with about 100 calories of sugar in it. This helps with the morning pre-run ritual and to get myself primed up. My runs feel a lot better. My diet is basically unaffected as I'm only taking in 100 calories. I switched a couple times back to fasted and it was a tougher run each time. It makes a difference.
2. I track my calories and try to stay in my goal but I also eat my "meals" to satiation. This requires honesty with yourself and attunement with how satisfied you feel. It also helps to eat slowly so you get these signals before you plied your stomach full of calories. What typically happens is I eat more than my MFP calorie guide currently set at losing 1 pound/week, but generally under maintenance. For me, this has changed how and when I eat. My first calories are my pre-run mocha. Then I run, followed immediately with a recovery drink. I limit my recovery calories (the ones in the first 30 minutes after a run) to no more than about 600-800 calories, and only go that high after a workout or long run. This is a meal, of sorts. The calories are high enough and my body spends time soaking it up while I start my day. I then find I am generally not hungry again until near lunch time. So my first real food is lunch. I get food together and eat while doing something (working, reading, surfing online) to occupy me between bites. I eat until I am satisfied. I then typically want to eat again about 2 hours later and I repeat the above. Sometimes I am hungry once again after that, but many times I find myself going the rest of the day without being hungry. Either way...I'm typically never having dinner, at least not eating with others at dinner time (after 5pm). Im usually done with eating by some time in the afternoon. Some evening I get a snacky urge around 6 or 7pm and I find a small protein shake or glass of milk does the trick. Bu the end of the dayy calories are averaging at about the MFP calorie estimate of 1/2 pound/week loss, and I lose about that much per week. However, I am getting thinner beyond my weight. I am fitting on clothes at my current 280 pounds that I fit into when I was 250 pounds last year. That is strange, but fact. Again, this might only work for me, so many things come into play here from person to person.
Some people seem to be able to restrict their calories more than others and be distance runners. I have learned, and re-learned all over again, that I am successful with a lower calorie restriction. If I restrict more than that, I'm miserable and at some point the runger will catch up with you and "the feeding" will happen. Your body has it's requirements, and not all of us operate equally in the complicated formulation that is our metabolism2 -
@Elise4270 - I meant to mention, but forgot to do so, that some days I find myself eating higher than maintenance before I'm satisfied. Almost every time that happens it is a rest day, for whatever reason. I still eat until I am satisfied even on those days. I still have been losing weight though because those are infrequent enough.1
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Haha! Thanks @WhatMeRunning!
Right now my schedule is:
Breakfast
25 calorie coffee
Maybe a snack 160-300 calories. Which may include- Chick-fil-A breakfast, or quest protein bar, or banana, or muscle milk or nothing depending if it's available.
Lunch
200-300 Calorie Salad (yuck), Quiznos 3-400 Cal's, maybe a red bull, low cal lemonade
Run after work
Dinner
Prob 5-700 calories I like just snacking. Last night triscuits avocado, ricotta, olives and lime. V8
So, I see I'm trying to run on little to no fuel. But finding what to add has me perplexed since my go to calories is ice cream. And I'm not letting that demon out of the box for it's "feeding". I could do fruit.... But I'm lazy and won't pack a lunch. It might be what I need to do though..
My diary is open. Yes it is low. Duh. I'm trying to lose a bit. And like @MobyCarp mentioned, 1500 Wednesday doesn't always equal 1500 Thursday. So, the numbers are not absolute, i don't usually log v8, gummy vitamins ect... So remember don't look at the calories as if I'm 20yo! 1600 by MY counting, is where I start to gain.
ETA My trend app says I'm down 0.48 pounds in the last 7 days. 1.11 pounds in the last 15 days. Not excessive.2 -
I have a question.
I've been eating at a deficit. And running is HARD. So fuel the run, right?
What's the advantage/disadvantage? How is running on a deficit different from training your body to burn fat? I can't see that it is. Other than its HARD.
If I have a GU or candy sprees before a run, I'll probably be able to run farther, maybe faster. 100 calories isn't going to fuel my run, but it'll prime the pump, right? Then I'll burn more calories and get more out of my training?
TL:DR What's your take on running for weight loss? How can I make that work with out being exhausted?
OK @Elise4270 I might as well put my prospective on this. it's been a while since I was trying to lose a bunch of weight. When I first got into this running thing seriously back in Oct '13, I was running 3 miles on a treadmill 3x (plus doing the elliptical and bike thingy in the gym on off days) and I had a 1000 cal deficit (according to my mfp numbers). I successfully lost almost 50 pounds in less than 6 months. Running was a b****. And I was moving hard on the treadmill (well hard for me at the time). This was before I learned the run at a conversational pace most of the time. I thought if I wanted to burn calories, I had to be breathing hard the whole time. But yeah, running was hard. I would run first thing in the morning. My wife was doing Advocare at the time, so I was trying all these energy things before the run. OK, maybe I woke up a little bit, but I was still breathing hard and having a hard time with just 3 miles. Never thought to slow down. Why would I do that? lol
Anyway, when I got close to goal weight was when I was transitioning from treadmill to all outdoor miles. Maybe I was being too aggressive with how many outdoor miles I was doing, but I started to get bad pains. I attributed that to still being on a deficit, so I started eating at maintenance and eased up on the number of miles I was doing at the time and eventually got to the point where I wasn't hurting as bad and could resume with mileage building. I also learned to slow down too.
OK, some science. So eating at a deficit and exercising while fasted probably means that you have very low amounts of glycogen to run off of. The conversion of fat to energy is much slower than the conversion of sugar to energy. Also, the conversion of fat to energy strictly requires oxygen while the conversion of sugar to energy can be done without oxygen but increases lactate and hydrogen ion accumulation (which equals to quickly fatiguing and getting that burning sensation). Since the brain requires the burning of sugar, this complicates things more which means your running is competing with the requirement of keeping your brain alive. The brain wins since it is also the thing that controls your running. Short take away: you have to slow down your pace to make this happen and embrace the suck.
Since the brain controls your muscular movements and is selfish for all that sugar burning, here is a trick to get your brain to share in some of the fun. Bring a bottle of something very sweet with you. Could be full strength Gatorade or PowerAde. It could just be very strong sugar water. About every 5 minutes, take a small sip of the sugary drink and swish it around in your mouth. You can drink it or spit it out. What is happening is, your brain is slowly turning off your muscle movement because that muscle movement is competing for sugar with the brain itself. Then the sugary taste hits your taste buds. That causes a signal to go to your brain triggering that carbs are being consumed (or so it thinks). The brain thinks that more energy is on the way and allows you to keep running hard. Try that and see if it works for you.
YMMV Disclaimer: Be careful when taking this advise. Don't take this advise if you are pregnant or plan to get pregnant. Don't take this advise if you have a weak heart or weakened immune system. This advise has been known to cause headaches, palpitations, acute nausea, and death. Let your doctor know if you are taking an MAO inhibitor such as phenelzine or transcylpromine. Discontinue this advise if you have a runner's high that lasts for more than 4 hours. Ask your doctor if taking this advise is right for you.
6 -
5/1 - rest
5/2 - 6 miles
5/3 - 4.15 miles (track workout)
5/4 - 3 miles recovery
5/5 - rest
5/6 - 6 mile easy run
5/7 - 10 mile taper week long run
5/8 - rest
5/9 - 4.5 mile recovery run
5/10 - 7 mile run
5/11 - 4.5 mile recovery run
5/12 - rest
5/13 - 2.5 mile pre-race shakeout run
5/14 - Tinkerbell HM (2:01:54 - PR’d by 8 min!)
5/15 - rest
5/16 - 3 mile sort of recovery run (a little too fast)
5/17 - rest
5/18 - 5 mile run (supposed to be recovery but too fast)
5/19 - rest
5/20 - 6 mile run
5/21 - rest (recuperating from a redeye all-nighter)
5/22 - rest (still recuperating from a redeye all-nighter)
5/23 - rest (still recuperating from a redeye all-nighter, I’m getting old)
5/24 - 8 mile ‘embrace the suck’ run
5/25 - rest
5/26 - 8 mile recovery run
5/27 - Zumba!
5/28 - rest
5/29 - 12 mile long run including The Hook and a bonk
5/30 - rest
5/31 - 8 mile run w/summer track workout: 400/600/800/800/600/400 ladder
May Total: 110.75/140
600.85 miles/2,017 miles - goal for the year
Shy of my goal yet again. I don't even remember at this point where all the lost miles came from, lol. But whatevs, I feel like it was a great month for me anyway, and included my HM PR, so I'm pleased! I also should have had another 9 mile run as part of this month, but this week my running days got shifted since I moved my long run from Sun to Mon.
Anywho, Monday I did a 12 mile long run. I had not been in the mood to run AT ALL. So, my way of distracting myself from having to run all those miles was throwing in one of the worst running hills in the county, that I think I'd only ever run once or twice before. Runner logic, right?
I managed the hill, which I was very happy with. However, I hadn't really paid any close attention to proper fueling the night before/morning of, and I also think I wasn't quite hydrated enough. I ended up bonking (such a strange feeling right? When it literally feels like your legs are winding down like a clockwork toy that needs winding, lol), but fortunately it happened when I had about a half mile left. So, I stopped for a few min, let my hr recover, and managed to grind through the last little bit.
Last night I took advantage again of the summer track workouts that my county running club offers. I love that they do this, I think it's going to be very beneficial for me. The planned workout was 1.5 mile warmup, 400/600/800/800/600/400 ladders w/400m recoveries, and 1 mile cooldown, coming in at a total of 6.25 miles. I actually needed 8 miles yesterday, so I added a little to the warmup, and a bit to the cooldown. This workout kicked my butt, but in a good way. I even split the 800s and negative split the 400s. Didn't remember what my first 600 split was so I'm not sure how I did with that one, lol. It was my first time playing with manually hitting the lap button on my watch and I kinda failed at it, not always remembering to hit it at the right time, lol. Oh well, practice makes perfect!
See you guys on the June thread!3 -
@Elise4270 one other suggestion is to track measurements along with weight. It can explain why you weigh more but fit better in clothes for thinner people. It can give you a better perspective as to how much healthier you have become. Also look at what your eating in addition to how many calories and track which foods make you feel like you have more energy. Could be before long runs you want to eat certain foods. The other statistic that we often forget is sleep.1
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LOL! @Stoshew71 I knew that about the sugar trick. I may just do that and see if it helps. I pretend to eat a Tootsie Pop on my runs to see if I can trick my brain. I'm not sure it works. I hate having to pick between weight loss and running performance.
I'm currently 7-8 pounds from my ideal running weight. So, I'm over here crying about losing 4-5 pounds! Haha! Well actually I'm crying about not having the fuel to run. Wait. Maybe I'm crying about both.
@WhatMeRunning Thanks for the advice.
@cburke8909 ya, I thought about that. I may give it a go!0
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