Concealed Carry Ladies Pants ??
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Hey OP - thanks for posting.
I have my CC permit, but rarely every carry because I can't find a good way to carry. I have an M&P 9 Shield. I don't like to carry in my purse, because if I have to open it to get out my wallet, phone, etc. I don't like to "advertise" it is there. I also don't feel like I could easily access it from my purse, if needed.
So, I appreciate all the suggestions.
Yep, that's my CC pistol as well. Unfortunately, it's significantly larger than some other CC options. However, I'd rather have accuracy over size. It's one of the reasons though why I've had a hard time finding good CC options as on my 5'3" frame, it's a significantly sized pistol. When I asked the ladies at the range what they did for CC, they all said they had their husbands for that...sigh...so no help there. I too appreciate the options provided here.2 -
MiloBloom83 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Lol, of course the first thought when confronted is to run/get away if possible.
Lol, why because you disagree?bigmuneymfp wrote: »
THIS. Personally I think a knife would be easier to use and is usually enough of a deterrent against an assailant.StarvingDiva wrote: »Listen, I would never belittle the efforts of any woman who wanted to take measures to protect herself.
I just think that, unless you are fairly experienced with being in a threatening situation, you want the thing that is easiest to use.
Pretty hard to aim a pistol when you are shaking, let alone unsnap it from your holster that is in the back of your sports bra.
**I don't know too many people who feel comfortable carrying concealed without training.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just stop posting
So an assailant holding a knife is enough to deter people to listen, but not enough for an assailant to think twice?
Predators don't want a fight. ANY resistance or awareness that they are there, is many times enough to dissuade an attack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So some cubicle worker is somehow going to take a knife out of his or her pocket, unfold it, hold it in a meaninful way and tell a bad guy to "back off!" ?
Okay, you might scare off the tweaker that's 20 feet away.
You might feel confident, or invincible because you have that little piece of steel, when you should be running the (kitten) away.
Or, you'll just get cut with your own knife that you clumsily fumbled and dropped while deploying - or stabbed yourself, because the other guy was already ready to do harm. The bad guy is used to getting hit/kicked/punched/stabbed. He's probably lead a life with some violence in it.
Or get dead, because you've now escalated the situation by brandishing but not being willing to use the knife.
Any method you use, you have to drill frequently. Experts I've done training with, retired law enforcement officers, train daily. If you can't deploy and use your method within seconds, well.
My first response to the OP was "run in safer areas, run with someone else, or be somewhere where there's lots of public around".
However, as I mentioned a predator sneaks up on people who aren't aware. ANY WEAPON may be useless if a person is caught off guard.
Fighting is your last resort. IMO it's easier to pull a knife out of a sheath ( if you're trained to use it) and defend yourself, than to unholster a gun, turn off the safety and try to shoot if someone snuck up and put a choke on you.
People won't agree. That's fine, but I don't believe it's any more bad advice than a holstered gun when someone gets attacked without any warning.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
TRICK question for you.
Where on a Glock is the safety that must be "turned off" prior to firing?
Fixed it for you.
It's not a trick question. The Glock does have a safety. It's located on the trigger, and it must be disengaged to fire. It just so happens that with a Glock, the act of pulling the trigger also disengages the safety.
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alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
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Hey OP - thanks for posting.
I have my CC permit, but rarely every carry because I can't find a good way to carry. I have an M&P 9 Shield. I don't like to carry in my purse, because if I have to open it to get out my wallet, phone, etc. I don't like to "advertise" it is there. I also don't feel like I could easily access it from my purse, if needed.
So, I appreciate all the suggestions.
My wife has a Coronado. and she's SUPER happy with it. She's about due for a new one however. And they discontinued her preferred style.1 -
Sources are important but remember even on your side of the debate there's a ton of fake news. When anti 2a organizations list the purpotrators of mass murders, bombers, and even suicides as being amoung the victims of gun violence so their numbers appear larger I'd be very skeptical of nearly anything else they ever told me.alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
:
I view a gun just as I do the tool kit or first aid kit I keep in my car better to have it and not need it than need it or not have it.5 -
Hey OP - thanks for posting.
I have my CC permit, but rarely every carry because I can't find a good way to carry. I have an M&P 9 Shield. I don't like to carry in my purse, because if I have to open it to get out my wallet, phone, etc. I don't like to "advertise" it is there. I also don't feel like I could easily access it from my purse, if needed.
So, I appreciate all the suggestions.
Yep, that's my CC pistol as well. Unfortunately, it's significantly larger than some other CC options. However, I'd rather have accuracy over size. It's one of the reasons though why I've had a hard time finding good CC options as on my 5'3" frame, it's a significantly sized pistol. When I asked the ladies at the range what they did for CC, they all said they had their husbands for that...sigh...so no help there. I too appreciate the options provided here.
I am 5'4", so I hear ya!!
I love the gun and I am very comfortable with it, it is just hard to CC.
I do rely on my husband when we are out together because he has a smaller revolver that he can easily carry (too bad I HATE it), but I would also like something for when I am alone.2 -
It really doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with a person's choice to carry or not to carry. It all comes down to what said person is comfortable with. My daughter is not comfortable with a gun, therefore she carries a stun gun and mace when running, I am comfortable carrying my gun so that is what I carry. period. I have practiced so much that gun has become an extension on my hand/arm and I am comfortable with it. so what if the next person that comments thinks otherwise. If you see me on the street, I am carrying. and I can shoot.6
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since I couldn't figure out how to edit my post here is a source for the anti 2a inflated numbers I mentioned above.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/20/bloomberg-group-names-tsarnaev-dorner-gun-violence/
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stanmann571 wrote: »alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
Exactly this. People don't call me terrified if I have smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher in my house, a jack and a spare tire in my car, a lighter and some waterproof matches when I go hiking, or a helmet when I ride my bicycle or motorcycle.
It's simply being prepared for the fact that something could go wrong and having the means to do something about it.9 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
Exactly this. People don't call me terrified if I have smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher in my house, a jack and a spare tire in my car, a lighter and some waterproof matches when I go hiking, or a helmet when I ride my bicycle or motorcycle.
It's simply being prepared for the fact that something could go wrong and having the means to do something about it.
I find it strange that people are terrified of law abiding, peaceable citizens being armed.
9 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
Exactly this. People don't call me terrified if I have smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher in my house, a jack and a spare tire in my car, a lighter and some waterproof matches when I go hiking, or a helmet when I ride my bicycle or motorcycle.
It's simply being prepared for the fact that something could go wrong and having the means to do something about it.
I find it strange that people are terrified of law abiding, peaceable citizens being armed.
Especially with concealed carry when they very possibly interact with some ordinary person every single day who is carrying a gun and they don't even know it. Like when someone in person tells me how scary they find it that people can just walk around carrying guns and I'm standing there thinking "You don't seem to have wet your pants."10 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
Exactly this. People don't call me terrified if I have smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher in my house, a jack and a spare tire in my car, a lighter and some waterproof matches when I go hiking, or a helmet when I ride my bicycle or motorcycle.
It's simply being prepared for the fact that something could go wrong and having the means to do something about it.
I find it strange that people are terrified of law abiding, peaceable citizens being armed.
Especially with concealed carry when they very possibly interact with some ordinary person every single day who is carrying a gun and they don't even know it. Like when someone in person tells me how scary they find it that people can just walk around carrying guns and I'm standing there thinking "You don't seem to have wet your pants."
It's definitely a fine line from a PA/PR perspective. On the one hand you don't want to have her/him freak out, on the other, you want to sensitize to the reality. Especially in the instance that most commonly occurs and the person talking is one of 2-3 out of more than a dozen who coincidentally isn't carrying a gun.
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So is it more that you're concerned about how you're viewed? I've NEVER said anyone who isn't well trained or anyone SHOULDN'T conceal/carry. You're assuming that people think that.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I applaud you then. So how many people in general public have the same extensive training as a police officer who own a firearm when it comes to actual confrontation?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
My only advice was that it might not be effective when you're not ready to use it. There's a difference in practice and in real life scenarios. Adrenaline makes a lot of people "forget" their training and panic can set in. How do you draw, AIM, and fire at someone with their arm around your neck, behind you and possibly choking you out?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Don't own a Glock so I have no idea. I was speaking in basic terms since I assume every gun has a "safety" of some type correct?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Lol, of course the first thought when confronted is to run/get away if possible.
Lol, why because you disagree?bigmuneymfp wrote: »
THIS. Personally I think a knife would be easier to use and is usually enough of a deterrent against an assailant.StarvingDiva wrote: »Listen, I would never belittle the efforts of any woman who wanted to take measures to protect herself.
I just think that, unless you are fairly experienced with being in a threatening situation, you want the thing that is easiest to use.
Pretty hard to aim a pistol when you are shaking, let alone unsnap it from your holster that is in the back of your sports bra.
**I don't know too many people who feel comfortable carrying concealed without training.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just stop posting
So an assailant holding a knife is enough to deter people to listen, but not enough for an assailant to think twice?
Predators don't want a fight. ANY resistance or awareness that they are there, is many times enough to dissuade an attack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So some cubicle worker is somehow going to take a knife out of his or her pocket, unfold it, hold it in a meaninful way and tell a bad guy to "back off!" ?
Okay, you might scare off the tweaker that's 20 feet away.
You might feel confident, or invincible because you have that little piece of steel, when you should be running the (kitten) away.
Or, you'll just get cut with your own knife that you clumsily fumbled and dropped while deploying - or stabbed yourself, because the other guy was already ready to do harm. The bad guy is used to getting hit/kicked/punched/stabbed. He's probably lead a life with some violence in it.
Or get dead, because you've now escalated the situation by brandishing but not being willing to use the knife.
Any method you use, you have to drill frequently. Experts I've done training with, retired law enforcement officers, train daily. If you can't deploy and use your method within seconds, well.
My first response to the OP was "run in safer areas, run with someone else, or be somewhere where there's lots of public around".
However, as I mentioned a predator sneaks up on people who aren't aware. ANY WEAPON may be useless if a person is caught off guard.
Fighting is your last resort. IMO it's easier to pull a knife out of a sheath ( if you're trained to use it) and defend yourself, than to unholster a gun, turn off the safety and try to shoot if someone snuck up and put a choke on you.
People won't agree. That's fine, but I don't believe it's any more bad advice than a holstered gun when someone gets attacked without any warning.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Quick question for you.
Where on a Glock is the safety that must be "turned off" prior to firing?
The safety on a Glock is a smaller trigger that exists on the trigger. Glocks are straight up made to go "BANG" when you pull the trigger. Draw. Aim. Fire.
Thing about guns is, they can be trained with just like any other self defense tool. You do it until it's muscle memory. But here you are, once again giving advice about firearms when you don't know the first thing about them. You have your assumptions, which are wrong, and clearly indicate that nobody should be paying any heed to what you have to say on this topic.
Maybe you ought to leave the concealed carry discussion to people who know what they're doing.
Even people who are trained and carry them daily and are in instances danger day to day (police officers) make mistakes due to fear for life.
I gave an example and if you're saying it could never happen, then you have better faith in people who conceal/carry than I do.
Like martial arts, many scenarios are given to defend against. Works great in a dojo. Different story when it's on the street.
The vast majority of cops don't train anywhere near as much as I do.
You can be a better driver than a police officer or amateur racer, but can the general public say the same?
Training does make the difference and I'm sure you'll agree, but the training SHOULD emulate actual scenarios and not just choreographed ones. Kinda why I like boxing and jui jitsu. More real time training rather than choreograph.
Most cops have far less firearms training than you seem to assume they do. I've seen cops brag about firing fewer than ten rounds a year.
People who are just into firearms will generally shoot a few hundred rounds a week. Lots of us take courses where you're going out into an exercise area and targets are presented to you such that you do not know where they're going to show up or when. We do outdoors, indoors, around cars, in the dark, and practice for all kind of conditions.
We're the people you see getting called nutjobs by the same people who say that untrained people shouldn't carry firearms. Though if I'm at the range and some cops show up, I will generally leave unless I know those cops, because the most unsafe firearms handling I have ever seen were cops at the firing range. You should be wishing that cops were as invested in training as my "gun nut" friends and me.
This stemmed from my POV that a knife may be easier to carry, easier to unsheath and use, and can be deadly IF the person has some decent training with it. If it was totally useless like some have said, then why do they even bother teaching it to Marines and Special Forces? No one HAS to have that fitness and ability to use a knife. If someone snuck up behind you, grabbed you in a choke hold, reaching back and just stabbing several times in just their leg or torso would more than likely have them let go. It doesn't take extensive training to do that, just learning how to be reactive. AND you now have some blood evidence to be able to possibly catch the predator if they are a repeat offender and are in CODIS.
Point was, there are options. Again, in my first response I believe to be SAFER, is to run where it's safer. Even if that means having to go out of your way to do it. Last thing ANYONE WANTS is a confrontation.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There are several reasons. Knives are quieter than guns with a silencer. Knives don't rely on ammo. Knives always work - no potential for a jam or misfire. Knives are useful independently of being a weapon.
Knives aren't ranged weapons unless you've got a hell of a lot of skill in throwing them. They require more training and physical ability than a gun to use effectively. They don't 'create distance' the way guns typically do. They are not nearly as effective for holding someone at bay while you escape or call for help.
If I'm in a choke hold, I was taught to protect my neck and break the hold first. Then go for a weapon/strike/flee depending on circumstance. If I go for any weapon immediately, I'm giving the attacker a chance to break my neck, damage my trachea, or if it's a sleeper hold possibly put me out before I can bring any weapon to bear.
BTW - if there's enough interest for this to continue, perhaps it should be split off and moved to the Debate forum?3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
What do I have to be terrified of. I have the means and training to respond to whatever threats cross my path.
More importantly, I have the will to respond, which means I'm unlikely to have to resort to the means.
Exactly this. People don't call me terrified if I have smoke alarms and a fire extinguisher in my house, a jack and a spare tire in my car, a lighter and some waterproof matches when I go hiking, or a helmet when I ride my bicycle or motorcycle.
It's simply being prepared for the fact that something could go wrong and having the means to do something about it.
I find it strange that people are terrified of law abiding, peaceable citizens being armed.
Especially with concealed carry when they very possibly interact with some ordinary person every single day who is carrying a gun and they don't even know it. Like when someone in person tells me how scary they find it that people can just walk around carrying guns and I'm standing there thinking "You don't seem to have wet your pants."
It's definitely a fine line from a PA/PR perspective. On the one hand you don't want to have her/him freak out, on the other, you want to sensitize to the reality. Especially in the instance that most commonly occurs and the person talking is one of 2-3 out of more than a dozen who coincidentally isn't carrying a gun.
I never tell them. I can't see that going well. I usually say "You have probably encountered people today who were carrying concealed, who were entirely polite to you and you never knew they had a gun at all."
If I'm in a choke hold, I was taught to protect my neck and break the hold first. Then go for a weapon/strike/flee depending on circumstance. If I go for any weapon immediately, I'm giving the attacker a chance to break my neck, damage my trachea, or if it's a sleeper hold possibly put me out before I can bring any weapon to bear.
So is it more that you're concerned about how you're viewed? I've NEVER said anyone who isn't well trained or anyone SHOULDN'T conceal/carry. You're assuming that people think that.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I applaud you then. So how many people in general public have the same extensive training as a police officer who own a firearm when it comes to actual confrontation?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
My only advice was that it might not be effective when you're not ready to use it. There's a difference in practice and in real life scenarios. Adrenaline makes a lot of people "forget" their training and panic can set in. How do you draw, AIM, and fire at someone with their arm around your neck, behind you and possibly choking you out?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Don't own a Glock so I have no idea. I was speaking in basic terms since I assume every gun has a "safety" of some type correct?heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Lol, of course the first thought when confronted is to run/get away if possible.
Lol, why because you disagree?bigmuneymfp wrote: »
THIS. Personally I think a knife would be easier to use and is usually enough of a deterrent against an assailant.StarvingDiva wrote: »Listen, I would never belittle the efforts of any woman who wanted to take measures to protect herself.
I just think that, unless you are fairly experienced with being in a threatening situation, you want the thing that is easiest to use.
Pretty hard to aim a pistol when you are shaking, let alone unsnap it from your holster that is in the back of your sports bra.
**I don't know too many people who feel comfortable carrying concealed without training.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just stop posting
So an assailant holding a knife is enough to deter people to listen, but not enough for an assailant to think twice?
Predators don't want a fight. ANY resistance or awareness that they are there, is many times enough to dissuade an attack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So some cubicle worker is somehow going to take a knife out of his or her pocket, unfold it, hold it in a meaninful way and tell a bad guy to "back off!" ?
Okay, you might scare off the tweaker that's 20 feet away.
You might feel confident, or invincible because you have that little piece of steel, when you should be running the (kitten) away.
Or, you'll just get cut with your own knife that you clumsily fumbled and dropped while deploying - or stabbed yourself, because the other guy was already ready to do harm. The bad guy is used to getting hit/kicked/punched/stabbed. He's probably lead a life with some violence in it.
Or get dead, because you've now escalated the situation by brandishing but not being willing to use the knife.
Any method you use, you have to drill frequently. Experts I've done training with, retired law enforcement officers, train daily. If you can't deploy and use your method within seconds, well.
My first response to the OP was "run in safer areas, run with someone else, or be somewhere where there's lots of public around".
However, as I mentioned a predator sneaks up on people who aren't aware. ANY WEAPON may be useless if a person is caught off guard.
Fighting is your last resort. IMO it's easier to pull a knife out of a sheath ( if you're trained to use it) and defend yourself, than to unholster a gun, turn off the safety and try to shoot if someone snuck up and put a choke on you.
People won't agree. That's fine, but I don't believe it's any more bad advice than a holstered gun when someone gets attacked without any warning.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Quick question for you.
Where on a Glock is the safety that must be "turned off" prior to firing?
The safety on a Glock is a smaller trigger that exists on the trigger. Glocks are straight up made to go "BANG" when you pull the trigger. Draw. Aim. Fire.
Thing about guns is, they can be trained with just like any other self defense tool. You do it until it's muscle memory. But here you are, once again giving advice about firearms when you don't know the first thing about them. You have your assumptions, which are wrong, and clearly indicate that nobody should be paying any heed to what you have to say on this topic.
Maybe you ought to leave the concealed carry discussion to people who know what they're doing.
Even people who are trained and carry them daily and are in instances danger day to day (police officers) make mistakes due to fear for life.
I gave an example and if you're saying it could never happen, then you have better faith in people who conceal/carry than I do.
Like martial arts, many scenarios are given to defend against. Works great in a dojo. Different story when it's on the street.
The vast majority of cops don't train anywhere near as much as I do.
You can be a better driver than a police officer or amateur racer, but can the general public say the same?
Training does make the difference and I'm sure you'll agree, but the training SHOULD emulate actual scenarios and not just choreographed ones. Kinda why I like boxing and jui jitsu. More real time training rather than choreograph.
Most cops have far less firearms training than you seem to assume they do. I've seen cops brag about firing fewer than ten rounds a year.
People who are just into firearms will generally shoot a few hundred rounds a week. Lots of us take courses where you're going out into an exercise area and targets are presented to you such that you do not know where they're going to show up or when. We do outdoors, indoors, around cars, in the dark, and practice for all kind of conditions.
We're the people you see getting called nutjobs by the same people who say that untrained people shouldn't carry firearms. Though if I'm at the range and some cops show up, I will generally leave unless I know those cops, because the most unsafe firearms handling I have ever seen were cops at the firing range. You should be wishing that cops were as invested in training as my "gun nut" friends and me.
This stemmed from my POV that a knife may be easier to carry, easier to unsheath and use, and can be deadly IF the person has some decent training with it. If it was totally useless like some have said, then why do they even bother teaching it to Marines and Special Forces? No one HAS to have that fitness and ability to use a knife. If someone snuck up behind you, grabbed you in a choke hold, reaching back and just stabbing several times in just their leg or torso would more than likely have them let go. It doesn't take extensive training to do that, just learning how to be reactive. AND you now have some blood evidence to be able to possibly catch the predator if they are a repeat offender and are in CODIS.
Point was, there are options. Again, in my first response I believe to be SAFER, is to run where it's safer. Even if that means having to go out of your way to do it. Last thing ANYONE WANTS is a confrontation.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
BTW - if there's enough interest for this to continue, perhaps it should be split off and moved to the Debate forum?
It's kind of like any other serious situation. First, make sure you can breathe. Then worry about the rest of your problems. I was taught the same way, actually.3 -
lsutton484 wrote: »
Sources are important but remember even on your side of the debate there's a ton of fake news. When anti 2a organizations list the purpotrators of mass murders, bombers, and even suicides as being amoung the victims of gun violence so their numbers appear larger I'd be very skeptical of nearly anything else they ever told me.alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
:
I view a gun just as I do the tool kit or first aid kit I keep in my car better to have it and not need it than need it or not have it.
Yeah, I know there are a ton of misleading stats on both sides. That's why I don't like getting into statistic fights! The only completely true stat is that more guns=more gun deaths. Who/why/where/could it have been prevented? is pretty constantly up for debate.1 -
alaskagrown wrote: »lsutton484 wrote: »
Sources are important but remember even on your side of the debate there's a ton of fake news. When anti 2a organizations list the purpotrators of mass murders, bombers, and even suicides as being amoung the victims of gun violence so their numbers appear larger I'd be very skeptical of nearly anything else they ever told me.alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
:
I view a gun just as I do the tool kit or first aid kit I keep in my car better to have it and not need it than need it or not have it.
Yeah, I know there are a ton of misleading stats on both sides. That's why I don't like getting into statistic fights! The only completely true stat is that more guns=more gun deaths. Who/why/where/could it have been prevented? is pretty constantly up for debate.
I mean, if you think about it, considering we have 300+ million guns in the country and only 600 or so "accidental" (read: negligent) fatalities, that's a pretty good safety rate compared to, I don't know, ladders, pools, or dishwashing tablets.5 -
alaskagrown wrote: »lsutton484 wrote: »
Sources are important but remember even on your side of the debate there's a ton of fake news. When anti 2a organizations list the purpotrators of mass murders, bombers, and even suicides as being amoung the victims of gun violence so their numbers appear larger I'd be very skeptical of nearly anything else they ever told me.alaskagrown wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Those statistical claims have been well and thoroughly debunked.
Grin. I know better than to get into a statistics fight with a 2A/gun person. America's known for "fake news" for a reason. But the thing that comes through here is how terrified gun people are of their daily lives... "seconds to be victimized or killed..." "rape, murder, and assault..."
:
I view a gun just as I do the tool kit or first aid kit I keep in my car better to have it and not need it than need it or not have it.
Yeah, I know there are a ton of misleading stats on both sides. That's why I don't like getting into statistic fights! The only completely true stat is that more guns=more gun deaths. Who/why/where/could it have been prevented? is pretty constantly up for debate.
That's actually not true.
The number of privately held firearms in circulation has increased steadily for the past thirty years, and the number of deaths (justifiable, non-justifiable, intentionally self inflicted and negligent) related to firearms has decreased over that same period of time. The data are readily available from the FBI (crime) and CDC (deaths).7 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »MiloBloom83 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Lol, of course the first thought when confronted is to run/get away if possible.
Lol, why because you disagree?bigmuneymfp wrote: »
THIS. Personally I think a knife would be easier to use and is usually enough of a deterrent against an assailant.StarvingDiva wrote: »Listen, I would never belittle the efforts of any woman who wanted to take measures to protect herself.
I just think that, unless you are fairly experienced with being in a threatening situation, you want the thing that is easiest to use.
Pretty hard to aim a pistol when you are shaking, let alone unsnap it from your holster that is in the back of your sports bra.
**I don't know too many people who feel comfortable carrying concealed without training.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just stop posting
So an assailant holding a knife is enough to deter people to listen, but not enough for an assailant to think twice?
Predators don't want a fight. ANY resistance or awareness that they are there, is many times enough to dissuade an attack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So some cubicle worker is somehow going to take a knife out of his or her pocket, unfold it, hold it in a meaninful way and tell a bad guy to "back off!" ?
Okay, you might scare off the tweaker that's 20 feet away.
You might feel confident, or invincible because you have that little piece of steel, when you should be running the (kitten) away.
Or, you'll just get cut with your own knife that you clumsily fumbled and dropped while deploying - or stabbed yourself, because the other guy was already ready to do harm. The bad guy is used to getting hit/kicked/punched/stabbed. He's probably lead a life with some violence in it.
Or get dead, because you've now escalated the situation by brandishing but not being willing to use the knife.
Any method you use, you have to drill frequently. Experts I've done training with, retired law enforcement officers, train daily. If you can't deploy and use your method within seconds, well.
My first response to the OP was "run in safer areas, run with someone else, or be somewhere where there's lots of public around".
However, as I mentioned a predator sneaks up on people who aren't aware. ANY WEAPON may be useless if a person is caught off guard.
Fighting is your last resort. IMO it's easier to pull a knife out of a sheath ( if you're trained to use it) and defend yourself, than to unholster a gun, turn off the safety and try to shoot if someone snuck up and put a choke on you.
People won't agree. That's fine, but I don't believe it's any more bad advice than a holstered gun when someone gets attacked without any warning.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
TRICK question for you.
Where on a Glock is the safety that must be "turned off" prior to firing?
Fixed it for you.
It's not a trick question. The Glock does have a safety. It's located on the trigger, and it must be disengaged to fire. It just so happens that with a Glock, the act of pulling the trigger also disengages the safety.
Which is why its illegal to buy in California and Massachusetts and illegal to own in New York. They require an external safety.0 -
scorpio516 wrote: »
Which is why its illegal to buy in California and Massachusetts and illegal to own in New York. They require an external safety.
Glocks are not illegal to own in California at all. I own two.
4 -
scorpio516 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »MiloBloom83 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Lol, of course the first thought when confronted is to run/get away if possible.
Lol, why because you disagree?bigmuneymfp wrote: »
THIS. Personally I think a knife would be easier to use and is usually enough of a deterrent against an assailant.StarvingDiva wrote: »Listen, I would never belittle the efforts of any woman who wanted to take measures to protect herself.
I just think that, unless you are fairly experienced with being in a threatening situation, you want the thing that is easiest to use.
Pretty hard to aim a pistol when you are shaking, let alone unsnap it from your holster that is in the back of your sports bra.
**I don't know too many people who feel comfortable carrying concealed without training.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just stop posting
So an assailant holding a knife is enough to deter people to listen, but not enough for an assailant to think twice?
Predators don't want a fight. ANY resistance or awareness that they are there, is many times enough to dissuade an attack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So some cubicle worker is somehow going to take a knife out of his or her pocket, unfold it, hold it in a meaninful way and tell a bad guy to "back off!" ?
Okay, you might scare off the tweaker that's 20 feet away.
You might feel confident, or invincible because you have that little piece of steel, when you should be running the (kitten) away.
Or, you'll just get cut with your own knife that you clumsily fumbled and dropped while deploying - or stabbed yourself, because the other guy was already ready to do harm. The bad guy is used to getting hit/kicked/punched/stabbed. He's probably lead a life with some violence in it.
Or get dead, because you've now escalated the situation by brandishing but not being willing to use the knife.
Any method you use, you have to drill frequently. Experts I've done training with, retired law enforcement officers, train daily. If you can't deploy and use your method within seconds, well.
My first response to the OP was "run in safer areas, run with someone else, or be somewhere where there's lots of public around".
However, as I mentioned a predator sneaks up on people who aren't aware. ANY WEAPON may be useless if a person is caught off guard.
Fighting is your last resort. IMO it's easier to pull a knife out of a sheath ( if you're trained to use it) and defend yourself, than to unholster a gun, turn off the safety and try to shoot if someone snuck up and put a choke on you.
People won't agree. That's fine, but I don't believe it's any more bad advice than a holstered gun when someone gets attacked without any warning.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
TRICK question for you.
Where on a Glock is the safety that must be "turned off" prior to firing?
Fixed it for you.
It's not a trick question. The Glock does have a safety. It's located on the trigger, and it must be disengaged to fire. It just so happens that with a Glock, the act of pulling the trigger also disengages the safety.
Which is why its illegal to buy in California and Massachusetts and illegal to own in New York. They require an external safety.
They have one. The switch for it is on the trigger.
The NYPD currently issues the Glock G17 to all rookies. They limit the magazine to 15 rounds instead of the factory 17, and mandate a 12-pound trigger pull, to match their previous Glock of choice: the G19.0
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