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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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how is it remotely controversial that fat people are less healthy than fit people? Have we really gone that far down the "acceptance" and "healthy at any weight" "big boned" *kitten* rabbit hole that people actually believe this?
personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
everyone has an excuse, so we should all get on the excuse train to political correctness-ville..
people are not over weight they are just "waist challenged"...
oh please. It has nothing to do with political correctness. Have you seen a right-wing rally recently? not exactly a cross section of the fittest and healthiest Americans.
It goes well beyond just not wanting to "offend" fat people by calling them fat. It starts with parents being blind to how unhealthy their own children are and extends into adulthood when fat people want to validate their own unhealthy lifestyle by accepting it in others.
It cuts across ALL political and ideological stripes.
Hell. When I was in the military, not exactly the most "politically correct" place, obesity was still rampant. And for MANY it was justified because they "felt" manly, or macho. Or celebrated feats of eating and drinking. Especially feats of drinking. Fat guys were "tanks" and "beasts." They weren't just fat. Skinny guys "needed a sandwich." etc. It was pervasive.
i didn't say anything about left vs right.. I said personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
please. You deliberately included not 1, but 2 right wing buzzwords. You're not fooling anyone.
your the one that assumed that..
I did not know that political correctness is only a creature of the left.
blaming anything you don't like on "political correctness" is a favorite hobby of the right. Don't feign ignorance. It's unbecoming.2 -
how is it remotely controversial that fat people are less healthy than fit people? Have we really gone that far down the "acceptance" and "healthy at any weight" "big boned" *kitten* rabbit hole that people actually believe this?
personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
everyone has an excuse, so we should all get on the excuse train to political correctness-ville..
people are not over weight they are just "waist challenged"...
oh please. It has nothing to do with political correctness. Have you seen a right-wing rally recently? not exactly a cross section of the fittest and healthiest Americans.
It goes well beyond just not wanting to "offend" fat people by calling them fat. It starts with parents being blind to how unhealthy their own children are and extends into adulthood when fat people want to validate their own unhealthy lifestyle by accepting it in others.
It cuts across ALL political and ideological stripes.
Hell. When I was in the military, not exactly the most "politically correct" place, obesity was still rampant. And for MANY it was justified because they "felt" manly, or macho. Or celebrated feats of eating and drinking. Especially feats of drinking. Fat guys were "tanks" and "beasts." They weren't just fat. Skinny guys "needed a sandwich." etc. It was pervasive.
i didn't say anything about left vs right.. I said personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
please. You deliberately included not 1, but 2 right wing buzzwords. You're not fooling anyone.
your the one that assumed that..
I did not know that political correctness is only a creature of the left.
blaming anything you don't like on "political correctness" is a favorite hobby of the right. Don't feign ignorance. It's unbecoming.
go back and read what I said..I blamed it on lack of personal responsibility..
for the record I am a libertarian/independent...
1 -
how is it remotely controversial that fat people are less healthy than fit people? Have we really gone that far down the "acceptance" and "healthy at any weight" "big boned" *kitten* rabbit hole that people actually believe this?
personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
everyone has an excuse, so we should all get on the excuse train to political correctness-ville..
people are not over weight they are just "waist challenged"...
oh please. It has nothing to do with political correctness. Have you seen a right-wing rally recently? not exactly a cross section of the fittest and healthiest Americans.
It goes well beyond just not wanting to "offend" fat people by calling them fat. It starts with parents being blind to how unhealthy their own children are and extends into adulthood when fat people want to validate their own unhealthy lifestyle by accepting it in others.
It cuts across ALL political and ideological stripes.
Hell. When I was in the military, not exactly the most "politically correct" place, obesity was still rampant. And for MANY it was justified because they "felt" manly, or macho. Or celebrated feats of eating and drinking. Especially feats of drinking. Fat guys were "tanks" and "beasts." They weren't just fat. Skinny guys "needed a sandwich." etc. It was pervasive.
i didn't say anything about left vs right.. I said personal responsibility is not a thing anymore...
please. You deliberately included not 1, but 2 right wing buzzwords. You're not fooling anyone.
your the one that assumed that..
I did not know that political correctness is only a creature of the left.
blaming anything you don't like on "political correctness" is a favorite hobby of the right. Don't feign ignorance. It's unbecoming.
go back and read what I said..I blamed it on lack of personal responsibility..
for the record I am a libertarian/independent...
that's the other buzzword.
But this is beside the point of this thread.
fat people should pay more insurance, they are statistically more expensive to care for.
But for the 3rd time. Insurance companies already assume that you're fat, because most Americans are fat. So the better answer is that fit people should pay less. Charge everybody like they're fat and incentivize those who take care of themselves.4 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Should smokers, or pregnant women, or addicts, or people who work in a profession that could pose health hazards like doctors or nurses, should those with kids or those who have less means pay more for health insurance?
wow, one of these things is not like the other.
Why not you choose to smoke you chose to have kids, you chose your profession
I disagree with this - a huge chunk of the population does the work they have to do to get by, not the work they would choose to do if they had their druthers.
Largely because a similarly sized although not 1:1 overlapping would do no work if they had their druthers.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. My point is that people work in crap jobs with crap insurance because that's the best they can get. Would they druther be working in some white-collar well-paying job? I would bet the majority would say "damn straight". I don't think they would druther live off the system if given a chance.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Should smokers, or pregnant women, or addicts, or people who work in a profession that could pose health hazards like doctors or nurses, should those with kids or those who have less means pay more for health insurance?
wow, one of these things is not like the other.
Why not you choose to smoke you chose to have kids, you chose your profession
I disagree with this - a huge chunk of the population does the work they have to do to get by, not the work they would choose to do if they had their druthers.
Largely because a similarly sized although not 1:1 overlapping would do no work if they had their druthers.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. My point is that people work in crap jobs with crap insurance because that's the best they can get. Would they druther be working in some white-collar well-paying job? I would bet the majority would say "damn straight". I don't think they would druther live off the system if given a chance.
Maybe it is the best they can get at the moment, but a person always has the ability to improve themselves and their position in life. Some people have that desire and some don't. I believe the point was that there is a decent percentage that simply does not put in the effort to do that. Those same people tend to not be able to lose weight because of "genetics."1 -
when I started my lifestyle change I weighed 260lbs which is morbidly obese as far as the "charts" are concerned. I have since loss 70+lbs which puts me in the just the obese catagory and my goal weigh of 160ish puts me in the overweight catagory. So I would have loss almost 100lbs and still would need to pay a higher insurance because I have a goal weight in a catagory in which someone else considers to be an"unhealthy" weight? The problem with society is that we tend to associate Healthy with being a certain size. I didn't have medical issues at 260lbs and don't have any issues now. My sister is in a healthy weight catagory and recently had a double mastectomy so the cancer wouldn't kill her. My mother died at the age of 62, from lung cancer also at a healthy weight and exercised faithfully 4 times a week. My father died of colon cancer at the age of 59, also in a healthy weight catagory and didn't believe in cars so walked everywhere. One of my good friends, in a healthy weigh catagory who exercises regularly but loves to eat crap on a daily basis, is on blood pressure meds, as well as cholesterol meds and a diabetic. Where do you draw the line on what HEALTHY looks like? It's a slippery slope...4
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you know what this thread needs? more anecdotes. that'll convince people.3
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stanmann571 wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Should smokers, or pregnant women, or addicts, or people who work in a profession that could pose health hazards like doctors or nurses, should those with kids or those who have less means pay more for health insurance?
wow, one of these things is not like the other.
Why not you choose to smoke you chose to have kids, you chose your profession
I disagree with this - a huge chunk of the population does the work they have to do to get by, not the work they would choose to do if they had their druthers.
Largely because a similarly sized although not 1:1 overlapping would do no work if they had their druthers.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. My point is that people work in crap jobs with crap insurance because that's the best they can get. Would they druther be working in some white-collar well-paying job? I would bet the majority would say "damn straight". I don't think they would druther live off the system if given a chance.
Maybe it is the best they can get at the moment, but a person always has the ability to improve themselves and their position in life. Some people have that desire and some don't. I believe the point was that there is a decent percentage that simply does not put in the effort to do that. Those same people tend to not be able to lose weight because of "genetics."
I really disagree with this, but I don't want to pursue it here since it's a sideline to the topic.0 -
when I started my lifestyle change I weighed 260lbs which is morbidly obese as far as the "charts" are concerned. I have since loss 70+lbs which puts me in the just the obese catagory and my goal weigh of 160ish puts me in the overweight catagory. So I would have loss almost 100lbs and still would need to pay a higher insurance because I have a goal weight in a catagory in which someone else considers to be an"unhealthy" weight? The problem with society is that we tend to associate Healthy with being a certain size. I didn't have medical issues at 260lbs and don't have any issues now. My sister is in a healthy weight catagory and recently had a double mastectomy so the cancer wouldn't kill her. My mother died at the age of 62, from lung cancer also at a healthy weight and exercised faithfully 4 times a week. My father died of colon cancer at the age of 59, also in a healthy weight catagory and didn't believe in cars so walked everywhere. One of my good friends, in a healthy weigh catagory who exercises regularly but loves to eat crap on a daily basis, is on blood pressure meds, as well as cholesterol meds and a diabetic. Where do you draw the line on what HEALTHY looks like? It's a slippery slope...
You would have before you know it. They don't call it morbidly obese for nothing.
Congrats on your progress to a healthy weight.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »For the 2nd time. Insurance also starts at the statistical norm. For Americans this is ALREADY guessing that you're fat, sedentary, and eat poorly. Because 'murica. If you're not these things, almost every insurance company will give you discounts.
I don't get any discounts for my weight, activity level, and diet (that I'm aware of).
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the 2nd time. Insurance also starts at the statistical norm. For Americans this is ALREADY guessing that you're fat, sedentary, and eat poorly. Because 'murica. If you're not these things, almost every insurance company will give you discounts.
I don't get any discounts for my weight, activity level, and diet (that I'm aware of).
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the 2nd time. Insurance also starts at the statistical norm. For Americans this is ALREADY guessing that you're fat, sedentary, and eat poorly. Because 'murica. If you're not these things, almost every insurance company will give you discounts.
I don't get any discounts for my weight, activity level, and diet (that I'm aware of).
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.
I'd like to have some of those, but it also seems like it would be kind of a pain to track some of it.0 -
doesIf you take a group of 1000 people at a healthy weight, and group of 1000 people who are overweight, over a equal periods the fitter group will incur LESS health care expenses than the fatter group. Therefore the fitter people should pay lower premiums.
Anecdotes about individuals in either group are pointless. You can't know WHICH of those people will get sick and need money. But you CAN know that SOMEBODY in that group will need money. This is the fundamental basis of the entire institution of insurance, and has been since the first insurance schemes were established at Lloyd's Coffee Shop in London in the 1600s to insure merchant ships.
I would argue against this - the fatter group may incur more diseases/chronic conditions, but statistically speaking, the fitter group is far more likely to incur injuries which often times offset any medical cost savings from the lack of chronic issues. Just my N=1 experience on this - my daughter broke her wrist and the costs incurred with that single injury out-weighed several YEARS of my maintenance medications.
You could argue against this all you want, but you would be dead wrong. Your own personal experience does not invalidate decades of data. Statistically speaking @jdlobb was 100% correct.
Got any links to the data?
https://stateofobesity.org/healthcare-costs-obesity/
Its pretty clearly stated in the link above. Here is a preview:
"Obese adults spend 42 percent more on direct healthcare costs than adults who are a healthy weight."If you take a group of 1000 people at a healthy weight, and group of 1000 people who are overweight, over a equal periods the fitter group will incur LESS health care expenses than the fatter group. Therefore the fitter people should pay lower premiums.
Anecdotes about individuals in either group are pointless. You can't know WHICH of those people will get sick and need money. But you CAN know that SOMEBODY in that group will need money. This is the fundamental basis of the entire institution of insurance, and has been since the first insurance schemes were established at Lloyd's Coffee Shop in London in the 1600s to insure merchant ships.
I would argue against this - the fatter group may incur more diseases/chronic conditions, but statistically speaking, the fitter group is far more likely to incur injuries which often times offset any medical cost savings from the lack of chronic issues. Just my N=1 experience on this - my daughter broke her wrist and the costs incurred with that single injury out-weighed several YEARS of my maintenance medications.
You could argue against this all you want, but you would be dead wrong. Your own personal experience does not invalidate decades of data. Statistically speaking @jdlobb was 100% correct.
Got any links to the data?
https://stateofobesity.org/healthcare-costs-obesity/
Its pretty clearly stated in the link above. Here is a preview:
"Obese adults spend 42 percent more on direct healthcare costs than adults who are a healthy weight."
Can't access that link ATM. But what obese adults spend is not the same as the actual cost is it? And I thought the cost overall was the point in question.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the 2nd time. Insurance also starts at the statistical norm. For Americans this is ALREADY guessing that you're fat, sedentary, and eat poorly. Because 'murica. If you're not these things, almost every insurance company will give you discounts.
I don't get any discounts for my weight, activity level, and diet (that I'm aware of).
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.
I'd like to have some of those, but it also seems like it would be kind of a pain to track some of it.
Most of these are linked from Fitbit or other wearables and to my knowledge this is all "on your honor" verification. Perhaps this may come into play in an investigation of a claim, but I doubt it. The overall positive impact of carrot over stick outweighs the negative.
There is a very noticeable positive impact with our firm and while the pounds lost is private - it is very obvious that the entire company is on a healthier trend.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »For the 2nd time. Insurance also starts at the statistical norm. For Americans this is ALREADY guessing that you're fat, sedentary, and eat poorly. Because 'murica. If you're not these things, almost every insurance company will give you discounts.
I don't get any discounts for my weight, activity level, and diet (that I'm aware of).
you should check in to that. You might have to dig a little deeper. I had the same insurer for 5 years before I found out how to get discounts and rebates for making healthier lifestyle choices.
I do get some discounts for behaviors, but none of them are related to my weight, activity level, and diet.
They're for things like having an annual checkup, getting my biometrics done, and getting a flu shot.
Same here - loads of financial incentives via our wellness plan and insurance firm. The healthy habits have essentially negated the negative impact of having cancer in the risk profile.
We have benefits for the following: Exercising regularly, maintaining healthy BMI, annual medical/dental checkup, biometrics, vaccinations, getting enough sleep, etc. Even watching wellness videos is counted as a plus in this plan.
I'd like to have some of those, but it also seems like it would be kind of a pain to track some of it.
Most of these are linked from Fitbit or other wearables and to my knowledge this is all "on your honor" verification. Perhaps this may come into play in an investigation of a claim, but I doubt it. The overall positive impact of carrot over stick outweighs the negative.
There is a very noticeable positive impact with our firm and while the pounds lost is private - it is very obvious that the entire company is on a healthier trend.
Oh, I didn't think about Fitbit. That would make it easier.0 -
My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
This really hits a nerve with me. It’s overpriced as it is! The middle class pay for so much we can barely survive as it is. We pay 200$/ week for health insurance in my family! Sure why not add more penalty’s because I’m not in my “healthy weight range”. You’d have to prove why the people would have to pay more. What if being obese is due to having a thyroid issue? I mean I guess that’s just an excuse to some people. Gahhhhhh
Can you tell I’m hangry at 4 am?!1 -
Iwannabfit76 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
This really hits a nerve with me. It’s overpriced as it is! The middle class pay for so much we can barely survive as it is. We pay 200$/ week for health insurance in my family! Sure why not add more penalty’s because I’m not in my “healthy weight range”. You’d have to prove why the people would have to pay more. What if being obese is due to having a thyroid issue? I mean I guess that’s just an excuse to some people. Gahhhhhh
Can you tell I’m hangry at 4 am?!
Here you go:
People who have obesity, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html3 -
The proof is in the numbers. Insurance is about math, not feels.3
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Packerjohn wrote: »Iwannabfit76 wrote: »My mom and I were discussing this today and I thought it would be a great topic for this forum, especially with all the politics surrounding health care these days.
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
Do you think this would be a deterrent to gaining weight for people that are not in this category?
Should people with medications/medical conditions that cause weight gain be exempt?
I know that with obamacare/ACA there are wellness programs available, do you think these are all that helpful if you've been to one?
This really hits a nerve with me. It’s overpriced as it is! The middle class pay for so much we can barely survive as it is. We pay 200$/ week for health insurance in my family! Sure why not add more penalty’s because I’m not in my “healthy weight range”. You’d have to prove why the people would have to pay more. What if being obese is due to having a thyroid issue? I mean I guess that’s just an excuse to some people. Gahhhhhh
Can you tell I’m hangry at 4 am?!
Here you go:
People who have obesity, compared to those with a normal or healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions, including the following:
All-causes of death (mortality)
High blood pressure (Hypertension)
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (Dyslipidemia)
Type 2 diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint)
Sleep apnea and breathing problems
Some cancers (endometrial, breast, colon, kidney, gallbladder, and liver)
Low quality of life
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html
Not to mention, if a person is concerned about saving money then it would be in their best interest to lose weight. I would think a person's overall health would be prioritized, but sometimes inexplicably money is more important.0
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