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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
Replies
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crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
I lost 50lbs without any exercise factored in-just ate at the correct calorie deficit for my weight loss goals. Several years into maintenance now and exercise is still not part of the equation. People can lose weight without exercise-they just need to consume less calories. That should actually save them money as well.
That's awesome. What other methods did you use to lessen your calories?
Besides setting a daily calorie limit, I also stopped eating out. This bummed out most people I used to hand out with. Including some family. They know now that I am no good for eating out and that I won't be paying the bill. Lol That saves money too.
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It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
So healthy people not paying the bills of unhealthy. What about things not self inflicted? Isn't it a good thing that society helps out those in a more unfortunate position? It makes for a better functioning society all round, benefits far outweigh the costs. A well and financially stable as possible population is far more cost efficient never mind the just basic overall population happiness. And a happy population is a more productive one.
But maybe I'm just far too much of a hippy drippy idealist.12 -
So do you think people who are overweight and/or obese should have to pay more?
I think something needs to be done to make people more accountable for their health in general. Right now its easier and cheaper to the individual to have the medical community treat obesity and its medical outcomes such as diabetes, knee replacement, high cholesterol etc. with surgery and or meds than it is to be an active participant in making the change towards health. Maybe a higher copay for those who consistently come in with very high body fat or demanding a large copay for gastric bypass surgery rather than offering it for free to most. So many people would rather be fixed then do the fixing. You would think that health would be the incentive but if it is not, some financial accountability not to punish persay but to encourage participation.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
So healthy people not paying the bills of unhealthy. What about things not self inflicted? Isn't it a good thing that society helps out those in a more unfortunate position? It makes for a better functioning society all round, benefits far outweigh the costs. A well and financially stable as possible population is far more cost efficient never mind the just basic overall population happiness. And a happy population is a more productive one.
But maybe I'm just far too much of a hippy drippy idealist.
No I don't think your a hippy drippy idealist.
From what you have typed, you sound very passionate about society.
I would like society to be more balanced. I never argued against society helping those in a more "unfortunate position". That is why I suggested the capping of insurance fees and each state start taxing lotteries to help pay for those who need further financial assistance with medical needs. This way the mandate can be let go while monies can be collected from a different pool.
There is no way to say how successful my idea would turn out since I doubt it would happen. Besides, happiness can be a very fickle and subjective objective. Because no matter what good intentions you or I have there will always be unhappy people.2 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
I lost 50lbs without any exercise factored in-just ate at the correct calorie deficit for my weight loss goals. Several years into maintenance now and exercise is still not part of the equation. People can lose weight without exercise-they just need to consume less calories. That should actually save them money as well.
That's awesome. What other methods did you use to lessen your calories?
Besides setting a daily calorie limit, I also stopped eating out. This bummed out most people I used to hand out with. Including some family. They know now that I am no good for eating out and that I won't be paying the bill. Lol That saves money too.
I did an IF protocol for my weight loss phase, which was a fancy way of calorie cycling/counting calories
That's about it for the weight loss part, maintenance has been a mix of IF protocols and still tracking calorie intake. 1 -
I find the whole question kind of repulsive. This growing trend of everyone examining their neighbor to make sure they "aren't paying for something they aren't responsible for" is a cancer on civilized society. With all the variables involved--whether it's health, social services, taxes, whatever--everyone who lives in a group gives some and takes some. It all evens out in the end. Focusing on one aspect of health--in this case "obesity"--for special opprobrium is even more myopic. If you think you are paying more for someone else's "X", someone else is paying more for your "Y".
I guarantee that every single individual who lives in a modern, democratic society in on "the dole" in more ways than one.
Everyone. Without exception.
Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.22 -
Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.11 -
I find the whole question kind of repulsive. This growing trend of everyone examining their neighbor to make sure they "aren't paying for something they aren't responsible for" is a cancer on civilized society. With all the variables involved--whether it's health, social services, taxes, whatever--everyone who lives in a group gives some and takes some. It all evens out in the end. Focusing on one aspect of health--in this case "obesity"--for special opprobrium is even more myopic. If you think you are paying more for someone else's "X", someone else is paying more for your "Y".
I guarantee that every single individual who lives in a modern, democratic society in on "the dole" in more ways than one.
Everyone. Without exception.
Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
The best way to make society better for everyone is for everyone to start taking personal responsibility instead of feeling entitled to everything they want whether they can pay for it or not.
You want something? Pay for it with your money...not mine.
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VintageFeline wrote: »It isn't fair that healthy people must pay for the bills of the unhealthy. Having said that, there are some considerations.
Someone who is overweight/obese and does not have any irriversable damage due to their weight, can reverse their condition. Many years ago I lost over 50lbs for free by walking in the park daily. I also quit smoking for free by just telling myself NO. It's a slap in my face when someone tells me it's not possible to help yourself and lose weight/quit smoking without spending money.
That said, if a person has developed other medical conditions that restrict their ability to exercise then they do need extra treatment. But what if they are poor or underpaid? What is the solution?
Well, a payment plan percentage should be applicable (nothing is free) but capped. Any additional funds that need to be covered can be by done so by taxed lotteries. Each state should start a lottery that pays for this group. They already tax lotteries to pay for roads and schooling so why not for medical?
Just a thought.
So healthy people not paying the bills of unhealthy. What about things not self inflicted? Isn't it a good thing that society helps out those in a more unfortunate position? It makes for a better functioning society all round, benefits far outweigh the costs. A well and financially stable as possible population is far more cost efficient never mind the just basic overall population happiness. And a happy population is a more productive one.
But maybe I'm just far too much of a hippy drippy idealist.
I agree with you. I also think that encouraging preventative care is helpful (even if one thinks health insurance should all be individually underwritten based on personal risks, in the US we all end up paying for those on Medicare anyway, however "culpable" they were when younger), and that health is something no one can count on, things happen, and a lot of it is luck.
But I'm not getting into this here except to let you know that there are some in the US who agree with you. Politics and MFP, never worth it!3 -
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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That just means you have GOOD coverage. Many may not have that availability to it.crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Dd was hospitalized a couple weeks ago and so far we have a $7,000 hospital bill pending. That will probably be for the ER (which in the past has run us around $1,000), and then most likely her one night stay, (since the claim is pending it doesn't have the breakdown available yet for what services it's for). All the doctors/specialists etc will be billed separately, as will the CT scan (from previous we know that will be around $1,500 for the scan). The neurologist who overlooked her while we were in the hospital was $468, the radiologist who took the scan was $173 etc. We get small discounts on those though because they were in-network, so we're looking at $411/$123 oop for those two things. There should be at least one other doctor bill incoming, from the ER dr. who examined her/put in her staples, but nothing has come through yet (unless that's rolled into the hospital bill). The hospital we used has a 0% payment plan, with a $20 a month minimum payment option. We've used it before and we'll most likely use that option again for the larger bill. The doctors/CT scan we'll pay oop right away/not need a payment plan.
I don't think any of the incoming bills are unreasonable for the amount of treatment/care my dd received? We had a potentially life threatening injury and we received prompt and appropriate care, and they had all of the tools, equipment and experienced staff on hand to help us. We had a follow up appointment with the neurologist yesterday, ($100), and as we were walking in the neurologist was running out because he had just been called into emergency surgery, for a child that had just been brought in with serious head trauma, (his office is attached to the hospital for that reason). To have someone like that available to help when needed, as well as the support staff/equipment, is priceless when you're in the midst of emergency situations.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Agree. Many other industrialized countries do this just fine.SoulRadiation wrote: »I think it would be more logical to do away with the private insurance industry, have national healthcare, and provide tax incentives for living well (healthy weight, non-smoking, etc)...and do so under the justification that this is done to promote the common welfare.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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+1. The issue in America is that our society now is so focused on INDIVIDUAL gain and forgot about what it's like to actually be a society. Our current government emulates division and until we even just get that fixed, it's just going to be disagreement.I find the whole question kind of repulsive. This growing trend of everyone examining their neighbor to make sure they "aren't paying for something they aren't responsible for" is a cancer on civilized society. With all the variables involved--whether it's health, social services, taxes, whatever--everyone who lives in a group gives some and takes some. It all evens out in the end. Focusing on one aspect of health--in this case "obesity"--for special opprobrium is even more myopic. If you think you are paying more for someone else's "X", someone else is paying more for your "Y".
I guarantee that every single individual who lives in a modern, democratic society in on "the dole" in more ways than one.
Everyone. Without exception.
Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.0 -
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 13 -
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.5 -
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.1 -
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Yes. You're a martyr. You'll be blessed in the after life then.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.8 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Actually I live in a quite expensive area. However there are places in my area where people who don't have high incomes, can still live in the same area at a reduced cost based on their income. This gives their children a chance to go to schools in the area and do activities and possibly have opportunities that they may not have had living in places where their income only allowed them. Put kids and people in good environments and they usually take on the expectation and quality of that environment. And vice versa.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You clearly don't live in a large city. In many places, including New York...welfare people live in nice buildings right next door to people who actually pay their own rent. The welfare people, of course, don't pay rent. That is part of what is screwed up with this country. People think they deserve to be handed the same nice things as people who work hard for a living.
And yes while there are people who do believe they are entitled, it's a small percentage compared to the majority of Americans who bust their *kitten* day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
It creates a cycle of poverty that never ends because of learned helplessness. There is a reason why any national park prohibits the feeding of wild animals.
Yes. You're a martyr. You'll be blessed in the after life then.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Or I just question how some may be exaggerating what they are saying.heiliskrimsli wrote: »
So your neighbor can somehow live next to you rent/mortgage free? How does that work unless you live in section 8 housing?heiliskrimsli wrote: »Instead of wasting so much time and energy coveting our neighbor's goods, we should be working to make society work better for everyone.
Then my neighbor needs to work, not stand around with a hand out expecting me to hand over what I've earned. I'm not asking them to fork over the fruit of their labor for free, but that's what they're calling me selfish as they demand entitlement to what I've earned.
You must have a really interesting life taking everything completely literally.
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
I don't need to dream of an afterlife that doesn't exist. I learned to earn the things I want here.
How's the weight loss going?2 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
So you're also against things like, public education, fire departments, libraries... roads? You really think individuals should completely provide for themselves?
And I go to work (almost) every day and work hard because I can see the value in that work. I like doing interesting things that help others. And I don't think I'm particularly unusual in that. If I didn't have any bills to pay, I would almost certainly be similarly active - though I would probably devote more of my time to additional learning.8 -
By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.0
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clicketykeys wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »I don't support policies like that. Handing people a lifestyle they can't afford on their own...and using taxpayer money to do it... is not the way to teach personal responsibility. Why should anybody go to work everyday and work hard if they can live in the same place on welfare? If they want to live in a better building, then they should do it the way everybody else does...with their own money and work.
We have decades of experience with these handouts...they need to end.
So you're also against things like, public education, fire departments, libraries... roads? You really think individuals should completely provide for themselves?
And I go to work (almost) every day and work hard because I can see the value in that work. I like doing interesting things that help others. And I don't think I'm particularly unusual in that. If I didn't have any bills to pay, I would almost certainly be similarly active - though I would probably devote more of my time to additional learning.
Do you give every cent you earn above basic survival away to other people so that they can have a nice lifestyle, or do you provide yourself a nice lifestyle first?2 -
CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?
No one dies from not having the other forms of insurance.
I have several genetic factors that I can do nothing about - there are no lifestyle changes that will make them less of a problem. The medications to keep me relatively healthy in spite of these is billed to my insurance at roughly USD 50,000 a year.
Without them, I die. It's that simple.
How high is enough for my insurance?5 -
CipherZero wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »By default, they already go with increased health issues requiring more doctor visits, more hospital stays, and more medications as they lapse into the Sick Aging Phenotype.
People in higher risk pools should pay more for their insurance. It's true of life insurance, car insurance, and homeowners insurance.
Why not health insurance?
No one dies from not having the other forms of insurance.
Lots of people do die of their poor decisions, though.1 -
True about the cost, but that's because the health care system charges more because they know that insurance will cover the majority of it. Staying in a hospital bed overnight can cost as much as $7000. That's pretty ridiculous.Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
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The issue with health care in the US is spending per person (from all sources) is doube what it is for the rest of the industrialized world.
Profit is a portion of this but nowhere near all. I believe one of our issues is the amont we spend on end of life care. Most other countries will make an 80 year with a serious illness comfortable and leto them die with no treatment. In the US we spend thousands of dollars for an extra couple of months of life with questionable quality.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The bill was actually a little under $7,000 (I rounded up), but the cost covered more than just the hospital bed. It's still pending so I can't see the breakdown yet, but nothing further has come through, (the incident was several weeks ago), so I think that actually may be the total bill, (keeping fingers crossed lol). If so what the $6,696 included (this is the actual bill, before any insurance is factored in)-
-ER triage room from 9:30pm-1am
-private hospital room from 1am-4pm (we were able to stay in the room with her), including dd's food sensitivity friendly breakfast and lunch
-2 ER doctors that did her initial evaluation/came in several times during the triage time and then 1 put in staples in the back of dd's head/cleaned up wound
-nursing staff during triage time
-CT scan (I was expecting a separate bill for this, but nothing so far and the bill for the CT tech bill has already gone through, so I think this is included in the hospital bill?)
-Child Support assistant-we went to a children's hospital and we were assigned a person who stayed with us the whole time, who's job was to calm my dd down, play games with her/colored/did play-dough etc. She also held one of my dd's hands when the staples were going in (my dh held the other-I had to leave the room because there was so much blood and I almost hit the floor
)
-nursing staff for the regular hospital room time
-the staff member (CNA?) who helped clean my dd up-it took 45 minutes to wash all the blood/debris out of her hair, plus she helped get her showered
-speech pathologist who ran some tests because of dd's concussion
-Child Support assistant/Music therapist both came in several times while we were in the hospital room, to keep dd company
And then we found out the policy is that when a kid comes in with a head trauma they immediately put the on-call neurology surgery team on standby, in case there's a need for surgery. Thankfully we didn't need that (and I don't think there will be a charge for this), but knowing that they were ready to go if need be, was a huge relief when we were the midst of things (dd does have a skull fracture but it will heal on its own).
So, I don't feel that a $7,000 charge for all of that is unreasonable?
Sorry OT, way off track here!2
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