Is this healthy?

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13

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  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    The burn might not be that crazy, it's 10'000 steps of calories AND purposeful exercise.

    Around 5000 steps a day are consider normal for an adult with an office job. 5000 more steps do not burn that much calories.
    Again, I don't Know how much OP weighs but, in general most calories burn during workouts are way overestimated.

    Right, without knowing how much the OP weighs and how long her workouts are, we really can't comment on whether her burns are grossly inflated or not. Shorter, lighter women are often surprised at the burns heavier, taller women put up. This OP is 5'11".

    And I'm 5'10. While there's a chance that 750 calorie burn is accurate, there's a better chance that is not, unless OP is seriously overweight and put some serious high intensity cardio. My point is that exercise burns are usually overestimated.

    Sedentary on MFP is about 2500 steps. so she's getting credit for 7500.

    Add in a workout, which someone of her height could also get a decent burn from, I don't think her numbers are beyond the realms of possibility. I'm 5'5, 160lbs and my data tells me in an intense workout I can burn and eat all of 400 calories.

    And with that said, OP is currently NETTING 250 calories. Even if say, burns are over by 250 calories, that's still a dangerously low net of 500.
  • Athijade
    Athijade Posts: 3,282 Member
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    If the picture is like a normal day, then it is very worrisome and dangerous. The OP is eating below 1200 calories already (often mentioned as being the "safe" lower end of calories for an average height female). Then you add in the exercise and it's at a very low level that could cause serious health issues. It is scary that the OP doesn't realize that right off the bat (and doesn't seem to be wanting to believe those who say it's dangerous).
  • linlinjay
    linlinjay Posts: 66 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    linlinjay wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like i'm only hungry for junk even if i have healthy options but then when i eat junk i feel gross and weird.
    This is something a teenager would say. How old are you? Just curious.

    19 haha

  • linlinjay
    linlinjay Posts: 66 Member
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    Scandinavianblonde00 wrote: »
    I will never understand people saying they are having trouble eating enough.. if you have trouble eating enough now, then how did you gain weight in the first place. Smh :D

    Stress eating from trauma and depression...... 'smh'

  • CTRLplusZ
    CTRLplusZ Posts: 23 Member
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    If you don't feel like eating then drink your calories. Make smoothies and shakes to supplement throughout the day. It's worked for my 7 year old who doesn't like to eat.
  • linlinjay
    linlinjay Posts: 66 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    The burn might not be that crazy, it's 10'000 steps of calories AND purposeful exercise.

    Around 5000 steps a day are consider normal for an adult with an office job. 5000 more steps do not burn that much calories.
    Again, I don't Know how much OP weighs but, in general most calories burn during workouts are way overestimated.

    Right, without knowing how much the OP weighs and how long her workouts are, we really can't comment on whether her burns are grossly inflated or not. Shorter, lighter women are often surprised at the burns heavier, taller women put up. This OP is 5'11".
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    The burn might not be that crazy, it's 10'000 steps of calories AND purposeful exercise.

    Around 5000 steps a day are consider normal for an adult with an office job. 5000 more steps do not burn that much calories.
    Again, I don't Know how much OP weighs but, in general most calories burn during workouts are way overestimated.

    Right, without knowing how much the OP weighs and how long her workouts are, we really can't comment on whether her burns are grossly inflated or not. Shorter, lighter women are often surprised at the burns heavier, taller women put up. This OP is 5'11".

    5'11, 230 lbs, 50 min at the gym (eliptical and stationary bike) and 10,000 steps

  • linlinjay
    linlinjay Posts: 66 Member
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    abysmalbeauty wrote: »
    If you don't feel like eating then drink your calories. Make smoothies and shakes to supplement throughout the day. It's worked for my 7 year old who doesn't like to eat.

    Thank you! I'll try it.

  • PinkamenaD8
    PinkamenaD8 Posts: 99 Member
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    @linlinjay sorry to use your thread but as you see it has
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    Mfp gives you a deficit before exercise, if you're running that deficit plus the 1000 cals you burn. The body can only metabolise a certain amount of fat per day and then it moves on to muscle. (Your heart is a muscle)

    @TavistockToad That doesn't sounds right or maybe you wanted to simplify, but when depleted the glycogen levels, different organs of the body metabolise either protein or fat, they use the most accesible source, but if it still has fat storages the body doesn't use protein for all the cells and the vast majority is still comming from fat.

    The fat reserves continue to be up to several days, the severe effects of starvation occurs when you've depleted them and your cells are only relying on protein, this is when the failures in major organs start, but is many days of fasting for that to happen.

    TavistockToad wrote: »
    If your normal calorie goal is 1500 cals, and you burn an extra 1000 then that is the same as just eating 500 cals.

    I'll need the source of this, I'm not depth in this matter but I remember reading something from the research of Kevin Hall about calorie intake and the risk of starvation, he was the one to point that 1lb of weight can come from both fat and muscle so you should be carefull when planning your calorie intake according to your bf%, bmi and cal expenditure. Rather than raw numbers like 1000 cals he used percentages of the calorie intake/expenditure to classify the risk in the diet, my calorie expenditure is like 35% more of my intake wich was considered an aggresive deficit but still not dangerous as starvation, with the nutrients I'm taking in it. I think is not comprabale to eat 500 cals.

    I've been following similar deficit for at least 3 months, except a few maintenance days, I've not felt tired or hungry and always feel energy to keep my runs. My meals are weighed in consistent portions of 1800-2000 calories I think they provide enough nutrients. I feel I can keep going with this eating plan, but I'm not a doctor so I'm seriously interested to see any research and medical opinions. Are you a health profesional?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited May 2017
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    PinkamenaD8 wrote: »
    @linlinjay sorry to use your thread

    You probably should start your own. It will avoid hijacking OP's and also you will get more people seeing it.
    I'll need the source of this, I'm not depth in this matter but I remember reading something from the research of Kevin Hall about calorie intake and the risk of starvation, he was the one to point that 1lb of weight can come from both fat and muscle so you should be carefull when planning your calorie intake according to your bf%, bmi and cal expenditure. Rather than raw numbers like 1000 cals he used percentages of the calorie intake/expenditure to classify the risk in the diet, my calorie expenditure is like 35% more of my intake wich was considered an aggresive deficit but still not dangerous as starvation, with the nutrients I'm taking in it. I think is not comprabale to eat 500 cals.

    Looking at your diary your basic calories is 2100, which would have the deficit included, either 500 or 1000, probably. So a maintenance (when sedentary) of 2600-3100 (you can tell us). Then you are adding about 1000 calories per day, so TDEE is (by those estimates) something like 3600-4100. If you are then eating around 1600, that is a deficit of somewhere between 55% (-2000 from 3600) and 61% (-2500 from 4100), which is way too aggressive unless you are extremely overweight, and is going to be torching muscle probably, especially at the protein numbers you have, which seem low (sometimes very low) for a guy with that TDEE.

    Now, if this is your actual deficit and you are not undercounting calories or overestimating exercise, you would be expected to be losing 4-5 lbs/week (although it certainly could have dropped off, as you'd be experiencing metabolic adaptation). If it's really a more reasonable loss on average (like 1% of total weight), chances are you feel fine because the deficit is not really so extreme due to logging issues.

    If you are concerned, maybe talk to a dietitian. If you have a goal to maintain muscle (as I'd think would be usual), I'd recommend talking to the guys (and others) here who have successfully lost while doing that, and starting your own thread is a good way to do that.
  • moonstroller
    moonstroller Posts: 210 Member
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    My MFP diary looks similar to yours, and I understand not feeling hungry. I've tried forcing myself to eat even when not hungry and all I did was make myself sick. I've also forced myself to eat 1,500 to 1,600 calories and I felt sick. When I say forced I don't want it to sound like I'm literally crying because I'm so full and still eating, what I'm doing is eating when I don't feel hungry and have no desire to eat anything. Unlike you I don't crave junk, so I'll have a mixed salad, banana, or apple. Dinner might be four gluten free crackers and almond nut butter. Amazingly, I feel full after eating only that, and I don't wake up in the morning feeling famished. I've discussed this with my doctor and he feels that if I'm not feeling hungry then I shouldn't force myself to eat, so long as what I am eating is healthy. My energy levels are great, I can crank out 70 minutes on my NordicTrack machine, or run 5 miles without feeling physically exhausted when I finish. Everybody is different, so what works for one person will not work for another.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    moonstroller wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't crave junk, so I'll have a mixed salad, banana, or apple. Dinner might be four gluten free crackers and almond nut butter. Amazingly, I feel full after eating only that, and I don't wake up in the morning feeling famished. I've discussed this with my doctor and he feels that if I'm not feeling hungry then I shouldn't force myself to eat, so long as what I am eating is healthy. My energy levels are great, I can crank out 70 minutes on my NordicTrack machine, or run 5 miles without feeling physically exhausted when I finish. Everybody is different, so what works for one person will not work for another.

    The problem with this is that people will take it to mean "oh, I should be able to survive on 4 crackers plus some nut butter while doing loads of exercise." Fact is that if are a guy who needs to lose weight and eating so little while working out so much, you'd be losing enormous amounts of weight (and maybe you are) and putting muscle at risk. If you report that but say "feel great, working out a ton," your doctor is typically going to assume you are eating more than you think, especially absent extreme weight loss and if you have weight to lose.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
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    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Ironandwine69 wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    The burn might not be that crazy, it's 10'000 steps of calories AND purposeful exercise.

    Around 5000 steps a day are consider normal for an adult with an office job. 5000 more steps do not burn that much calories.
    Again, I don't Know how much OP weighs but, in general most calories burn during workouts are way overestimated.

    Right, without knowing how much the OP weighs and how long her workouts are, we really can't comment on whether her burns are grossly inflated or not. Shorter, lighter women are often surprised at the burns heavier, taller women put up. This OP is 5'11".

    And I'm 5'10. While there's a chance that 750 calorie burn is accurate, there's a better chance that is not, unless OP is seriously overweight and put some serious high intensity cardio. My point is that exercise burns are usually overestimated.

    I'm speculating here, but if OP is using an activity tracker like a FitBit, this represents the adjustment she gets when FitBit and MFP are trying to true up what MFP estimated her calorie burn to be based on the stats/activity level she put in, what she put in as a goal weight, and what FitBit says that her actual (estimated) total calorie burn is. When people use a FitBit and have their goal set too aggressively on MFP, and their activity level set at Sedentary when they aren't (like averaging 10K steps/day is not sedentary) then the exercise adjustments are fairly high because the two systems are telling her she's got things set up inaccurately.

    It is not surprising to me that someone who is 5'11 and over 200 pounds who is active is seeing big exercise adjustments.
  • moonstroller
    moonstroller Posts: 210 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moonstroller wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't crave junk, so I'll have a mixed salad, banana, or apple. Dinner might be four gluten free crackers and almond nut butter. Amazingly, I feel full after eating only that, and I don't wake up in the morning feeling famished. I've discussed this with my doctor and he feels that if I'm not feeling hungry then I shouldn't force myself to eat, so long as what I am eating is healthy. My energy levels are great, I can crank out 70 minutes on my NordicTrack machine, or run 5 miles without feeling physically exhausted when I finish. Everybody is different, so what works for one person will not work for another.

    The problem with this is that people will take it to mean "oh, I should be able to survive on 4 crackers plus some nut butter while doing loads of exercise." Fact is that if are a guy who needs to lose weight and eating so little while working out so much, you'd be losing enormous amounts of weight (and maybe you are) and putting muscle at risk. If you report that but say "feel great, working out a ton," your doctor is typically going to assume you are eating more than you think, especially absent extreme weight loss and if you have weight to lose.

    That is why I ended my post the way I did, what I'm doing is working for me and I certainly don't believe it would work for everybody.

    I sincerely hope nobody thinks what you wrote in your first sentence.

    I just don't understand why people hold to seemingly arbitrary numbers saying a male or female of a certain age and height MUST consume X number of calories per day to remain at a healthy weight. We're all different and my caloric needs may differ wildly from another man the same age and body composition as myself. Why are people telling the OP she SHOULD be eating more even though she doesn't feel hungry? Personally I think eating when you're not hungry isn't that far off from not eating when you are hungry. Which is another way of saying not listening to your body. I would advise her to work at eating more whole foods and break away from the processed foods.

    If her health is not failing due to her restricted diet than she's not causing physical harm to herself.

    To clarify myself:

    52 year old male standing 5'9" tall. On the last day of January this year I weighed 214.8 pounds. This morning I weighed 171.2 pounds.

    My muscle mass is not at risk because on top of the cardio I am also doing resistance training in the form of squats, lunges, pushups, planks, crunches, and free weights.

    My goal was to get lean fairly quickly, and that's what I'm doing. My method is working for me. I cannot explain why I don't feel hungry. I cannot explain why a banana for breakfast keeps me full until well after noon. I cannot explain why 4 crackers and some almond nut butter keeps my full all night. Although you may find my daily average caloric intake shockingly low, all I can say is this is how I am at this point in time, and this is what is working for me.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited May 2017
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    moonstroller wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moonstroller wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't crave junk, so I'll have a mixed salad, banana, or apple. Dinner might be four gluten free crackers and almond nut butter. Amazingly, I feel full after eating only that, and I don't wake up in the morning feeling famished. I've discussed this with my doctor and he feels that if I'm not feeling hungry then I shouldn't force myself to eat, so long as what I am eating is healthy. My energy levels are great, I can crank out 70 minutes on my NordicTrack machine, or run 5 miles without feeling physically exhausted when I finish. Everybody is different, so what works for one person will not work for another.

    The problem with this is that people will take it to mean "oh, I should be able to survive on 4 crackers plus some nut butter while doing loads of exercise." Fact is that if are a guy who needs to lose weight and eating so little while working out so much, you'd be losing enormous amounts of weight (and maybe you are) and putting muscle at risk. If you report that but say "feel great, working out a ton," your doctor is typically going to assume you are eating more than you think, especially absent extreme weight loss and if you have weight to lose.

    That is why I ended my post the way I did, what I'm doing is working for me and I certainly don't believe it would work for everybody.

    I sincerely hope nobody thinks what you wrote in your first sentence.

    I just don't understand why people hold to seemingly arbitrary numbers saying a male or female of a certain age and height MUST consume X number of calories per day to remain at a healthy weight. We're all different and my caloric needs may differ wildly from another man the same age and body composition as myself.

    Not by that much without there being a health problem. A healthy 19 year old woman of 200+ lbs and 5'11 has a TDEE WAY above 1000, even without exercise (and OP is exercising). If she is unable to eat more, there is something wrong in some way (possibly just that she isn't sure she should or has put off limits everything she might enjoy eating).
    Personally I think eating when you're not hungry isn't that far off from not eating when you are hungry.

    People who are overweight, have been eating in a non structured way and often non satiating foods, and who are excited to lose and have changed their diet a lot often aren't hungry for mental reasons or have problems understanding what hunger feels like. They may be used to more intense hunger or cravings and so think that if they are not miserable not eating that they aren't really hungry or that they shouldn't (because unless I can't stand it, I shouldn't eat more, but as little as possible, right? -- that's the kind of negative pattern of thinking that I do think your kind of post contributes to, yes). Understanding that it is okay to eat even if you feel like you would be okay not eating, that lowest calories is not always best is not a good idea, and can lead to eventually burning out hard or going off plan in a major way.

    I experienced this, since I felt okay on very low cals at first. It was because my hunger signals are messed up and I was in the "more is better" mode, not because I was genuinely listening to my body.
    My muscle mass is not at risk because on top of the cardio I am also doing resistance training in the form of squats, lunges, pushups, planks, crunches, and free weights.

    You didn't say what you are eating total or how fast you are losing* (or what your protein amount is), but that exercise, while great, does not protect against muscle loss, especially at your age, if you aren't eating enough protein and/or super low cals and losing super quick.

    As for goals, on that YMMV. My own is that I don't see any point in losing more or faster if I torch muscle when doing it, and although I weight train I know that's not enough on its own.

    *Edit: oops, missed it, but rate over the last month would be most informative.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    moonstroller wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    moonstroller wrote: »
    Unlike you I don't crave junk, so I'll have a mixed salad, banana, or apple. Dinner might be four gluten free crackers and almond nut butter. Amazingly, I feel full after eating only that, and I don't wake up in the morning feeling famished. I've discussed this with my doctor and he feels that if I'm not feeling hungry then I shouldn't force myself to eat, so long as what I am eating is healthy. My energy levels are great, I can crank out 70 minutes on my NordicTrack machine, or run 5 miles without feeling physically exhausted when I finish. Everybody is different, so what works for one person will not work for another.

    The problem with this is that people will take it to mean "oh, I should be able to survive on 4 crackers plus some nut butter while doing loads of exercise." Fact is that if are a guy who needs to lose weight and eating so little while working out so much, you'd be losing enormous amounts of weight (and maybe you are) and putting muscle at risk. If you report that but say "feel great, working out a ton," your doctor is typically going to assume you are eating more than you think, especially absent extreme weight loss and if you have weight to lose.

    That is why I ended my post the way I did, what I'm doing is working for me and I certainly don't believe it would work for everybody.

    I sincerely hope nobody thinks what you wrote in your first sentence.

    I just don't understand why people hold to seemingly arbitrary numbers saying a male or female of a certain age and height MUST consume X number of calories per day to remain at a healthy weight. We're all different and my caloric needs may differ wildly from another man the same age and body composition as myself. Why are people telling the OP she SHOULD be eating more even though she doesn't feel hungry? Personally I think eating when you're not hungry isn't that far off from not eating when you are hungry. Which is another way of saying not listening to your body. I would advise her to work at eating more whole foods and break away from the processed foods.

    If her health is not failing due to her restricted diet than she's not causing physical harm to herself.

    To clarify myself:

    52 year old male standing 5'9" tall. On the last day of January this year I weighed 214.8 pounds. This morning I weighed 171.2 pounds.

    My muscle mass is not at risk because on top of the cardio I am also doing resistance training in the form of squats, lunges, pushups, planks, crunches, and free weights.

    My goal was to get lean fairly quickly, and that's what I'm doing. My method is working for me. I cannot explain why I don't feel hungry. I cannot explain why a banana for breakfast keeps me full until well after noon. I cannot explain why 4 crackers and some almond nut butter keeps my full all night. Although you may find my daily average caloric intake shockingly low, all I can say is this is how I am at this point in time, and this is what is working for me.

    Not to remain at a healthy weight, to remain healthy full stop. We have many members here who, in the past, either due to EDs or just unhealthy dieting behaviour have had extensive health issues relating to their low calorie intake. The numbers aren't arbitrary and you don't have to be what some would consider thin enough for an anorexic to suffer the side effects associated with it.
  • moonstroller
    moonstroller Posts: 210 Member
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    I'm glad there are so many dietary and health experts here, and I did not intend to hijack this thread from the OP. It's amazing how quickly people can jump to conclusions based on a few sentences.

    lemurcat12: The hunger issues, and any underlying health issues, with the OP should be addressed by her and her physician, not by a group of strangers on a message board. I know I'm one of those strangers, I was simply trying to share my experiences and explain to her that she should not feel pressured into eating more because people quote charts and references about how many calories people should be eating. Everybody is different, and simply stating that a 19 year old woman weighing 200 pounds must consume X amount of calories to maintain a healthy weight removes the differences we all have as individuals. While those guidelines may work quiet well for a majority of people, there are some people who fall outside that spectrum. Being able to understand personal, genuine hunger and then feeding the body what it truly needs is the greatest achievement for sustained weight management. So far this month I've lost 5 pounds. I am not going to provide my daily caloric intake or macros because I know what the reactions will be, and it's simply not worth the effort.

    TR0berts: How can you be so sure I've lost even a bit of muscle mass? Have you seen me? Were you at my last physical? It appears you've jumped to a conclusion based on your knowledge of prevailing ideas regarding diet and exercise. Just because some chart says a man my age should be consuming 2,200 to 2,400 just to maintain a healthy weight does not mean that works for me. The FACT is, and I know this because, well, it's my body, when I consume over 1,800 calories I gain weight. This is regardless of exercise. I weighed 214 because I drastically over ate and indulged my love of pizza, chips, nachos, and beer. Since altering my diet and increasing my exercise routines my pant size has gone from 40 inches being tight to 34 inches being a little on the loose side, while my arms have gotten stronger with more muscle definition. Ditto on my thighs, calves, and chest. The simple fact is this: I am gaining muscle mass and getting stronger. I see this in how many pushups, lunges, and squats I can perform. I see the results in how much weight I can lift. I also see it in how I can run 5 miles with less effort and in less time. If I were loosing muscle mass I should be getting weaker, slower, and having greater effort to complete my exercises. This is simply not the case with me. On Sunday I walked 5 miles in 82 minutes, while I can run that same 5 miles in an hour. Before beginning my exercise routine it took me well over 2 hours to walk that 5 mile loop and almost an hour and a half to run it, and I had to drop from a run to a walk at several points. Now I can run the entire 5 miles. When I achieve my goal of getting lean, toned, and physically fit, I will work with my caloric intake and find how many calories I need to consume to maintain whatever weight I'm at, which may be 158 pounds, 160 pounds, or something else. I very well may end up needing to eat 2,200 calories, I'll know when I get to that point. But if I discover I only need to consume 1,600 calories to maintain my weight, I'm certainly not going to eat more simply because some chart tells me how much I need to eat to maintain a healthy weight. The point is I'm not going to allow some chart on a government website to dictate to me how many calories I need to consume, I can determine that all by myself.

    You may all believe what you wish about what I'm doing to my body regarding my diet and exercise, that's your right, but always remember this: Everybody has the right to ignore anything posted here. That includes anything I've posted.

    What we need to do as individuals is find a diet and exercise program that works for each of us to maintain the weight we want and be healthy while also understanding that what works for us as individuals will not work for everybody.

    Please forgive me if this post seams harsh, or combative, that isn't my intent because I truly understand everybody here is posting with the greatest of intentions, and none of us want to see anybody hurt themselves. All I'm trying to say is we're all individuals, and we should avoid falling into a trap where we allow some chart to dictate how much we eat. I believe we need to find what works for us and do our best to help others find what works for them.

    This is the last time I shall post to this thread because it belongs to the linlinjay.

    Sorry about this, linlinjay. Good luck with your efforts.

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