Fasting

2»

Replies

  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,454 Member
    To the first poster: your body detoxes naturally. If you feel you want to take 24 hours off food (why anyone would do that outside of religious requirements, I don't know) just know that nothing gets detoxed.

    I am a natural 16:8 fasting person. Because I eat my last meal four hours before bed, and then I don't eat again until fours hours after I get up. It just works for me. I can have two good sized meals five to eight hours apart and that's plenty of food unless I exercise a lot - then I have a snack in between or dessert.
  • MichelleWithMoxie
    MichelleWithMoxie Posts: 1,817 Member
    cmriverside wrote: »
    MichSmish wrote: »
    nope-a-saurus right here.

    If you are gong to disagree with a post...it helps to quote them so your "nope a saurus" makes some sense...with whom are you disagreeing?

    Uh, the concept of a water fast entirely. :neutral:
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    edited May 2017
    mohamedahmed07 wrote: »
    TeaBea wrote: »
    mohamedahmed07 wrote: »
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    I need some opinions on water fasting.

    Intermittent fasting is proved by science to lower insulin levels, increase insulin sensitivity, raise growth hormone which is a fat burning/muscle building hormone, and it helps curing many diseases, it is now being used to help people with cancer and diabetes and YES it helps reducing FAT, so if you're into losing fat instead of weight it is really good and it's also good for your hormones, you can find more about it on google, but every topic is always positive, it's only bad side is that it's quite hard to eat in a 8hours window and stop eating for 16hours

    If you're talking about no food whole day and just water, then it also works, but twice a week or so, over doing it is harmful, you can search it on google as well.

    The "proof" you are reading up on is anecdotal evidence........my blood tests before....my blood tests after, that sort of thing. What the evidence doesn't show are the MANY other factors that would also influence results. Did the test subjects start a Mediterranean diet, did the test subjects start an exercise program, heredity, medication, there are dozens of factors. IF didn't happen in a vacuum.

    As far as you not losing weight when you were "500 calories" under maintenance......that's easily explained a) you were eating more than you thought and/or b) your maintenance was lower than you thought. Your maintenance is a guesstimate. A CALORIE IS A CALORIE.

    If a calorie is a calorie can you explain to me this study? in 19 of 20 studies it was proven that low carb dieters lost more weight than low fat dieters? and low carb dieters had a CLEAR advantage in mid section (belly) size.

    This study proves that in 19/20 of the studies, the low carbs groups lost more weight than the low fat groups even while being on the same caloric deficit. Even that both were on a deficit?

    https://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/

    And nope, I was counting my calories very properly. and still couldn't lose weight until I switched low carbs.

    Stop with the all calorie is a calorie stuff. some people can't lose weight even on a deficit, there are plenty of researches that prove low carb > low fat and there are researches that prove that insulin can block fat burning also cortisol (stress hormone) when you are stress you can't lose weight as well.

    What that link, which is posted all the time, demonstrates is that protein is extremely beneficial. None of those studies control for protein and calories. When they occurs, there is no metabolic difference in weight loss, in either free living or controlled studies. In the below three studies, they control for both factors and the results are apparent... no difference.


    http://itarget.com.br/newclients/sbgg.com.br/informativos/14-09-15/1.pdf

    http://sci-hub.cc/10.3945/ajcn.116.133561

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046

    You also might be hard pressed to find controlled studies regarding IF when controlling for protein and calories as well. It's a fairly new topic, in the grand scheme of things, and most of the research is still in its infancy. Personally, I didn't see any advantage to IF vs a conventional 3 to 6 meals per day when controlling protein and calories.

    Additionally, one thing to understand is that the human metabolism and the impacts on energy balance is very complex. There are many factors that can influence TDEE and why individuals response differently with different diets. Throw in the fact, that even trained professionals under report calories by as much as 400 calories, it's hard to say what variable changed to allow you to see improved results. It's like how I have seen more weight loss from eating 2300-2500 calories than I did at 1800. There are just a lot of factors to consider and their interactions with our bodies. But none of this disproves CICO. It just means you CO is highly influenced.


    ETA: One thing to note, IF has been shown to increase IGF-1, which ironically is correlated to cancer. But it should also be noted, there are hundreds of types of cancers and not all cancers are the same. Suggesting IF could improve or fight against all types of cancers would be highly short sighted.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    I need some opinions on water fasting.

    As others have mentioned, there really is no benefit to water fasting outside of the fact that it will cause are restriction of calories. Potentially, doing this will cause you to binge or other issues but it's hard to say. Personally, I'd never do it because I enjoy food too much.
  • tmpecus78
    tmpecus78 Posts: 1,206 Member
    mohamedahmed07 wrote: »
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    I need some opinions on water fasting.

    Intermittent fasting is proved by science to lower insulin levels, increase insulin sensitivity, raise growth hormone which is a fat burning/muscle building hormone, and it helps curing many diseases, it is now being used to help people with cancer and diabetes.


    This x100 ^

    OP Fasting is perfectly fine and healthy. I often fast 18 hours a day and usually throw in a 24-36 fast once a month and give me digestive system a break.
  • tmpecus78
    tmpecus78 Posts: 1,206 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    So using the same rationale, do you also stop breathing for 24-36 hours once a month to give your respiratory system a break? I mean, the respiratory system works 24/7 without a break and we inhale a lot of environmental pollutants and allergens on a daily basis, so using the "fasting=cleansing" reasoning, it would only make sense that it would be perfectly fine and healthy to give it a rest once in a while, correct?

    No where in my comment did I mentioned or remotely come close to suggesting that fasting=cleansing or that someone should fast to so called cleanse. Cleansing is nonsense as our bodies are built to cleanse themselves, however there has been studies showing that fasting is and has been proven to be good for gut health and fighting dieases. :s

  • yskaldir
    yskaldir Posts: 202 Member
    At least in animal models, autophagy was observed after prolonged fasting (mice equivalent of 4 human days), which is the process your body "recycles" damaged and diseased cells.
  • MelissaPhippsFeagins
    MelissaPhippsFeagins Posts: 8,063 Member
    I am not opposed to a water fast for 24 hours if you want to do it. I can't because my blood sugar gets very low, so even on obligatory fast days, I will drink OJ or a protein shake.

    Now, if I were to accidentally ingest gluten, then I would water fast because I could not keep anything else down and would be fighting off dehydration. The blood sugar still gets low, but it can't be helped. Celiac disease is a witch.

    I don't think it actually does anything to detox the body except maybe to make you urinate more often. Kidneys and liver are the body's filters and quite good at it.
  • WayTooHonest
    WayTooHonest Posts: 144 Member
    I have not read every comment, because I am pretty confident the across-the-board answer is...

    No.

    If you need to detox, go to the doctor because your liver and kidneys have failed.

    No.

    Your body needs fuel to function. You will end up doing more harm than good.

    No.

    Just...no.
  • fatblatta
    fatblatta Posts: 333 Member
    Water fast if you want to. All the reasons not to are just people repeating what they have heard before. Your body can go a very long time without food. If you have 5 % body fat and fast you'll lose a little muscle. But if you have 30%, you'll eat before you lose any. I regularly do 48-hour fasts and have gone as long as 7 days before. It won't hurt you. Be mindful if you take medication because your blood pressure and glucose drop a bunch after a few days.
  • rachyfb
    rachyfb Posts: 2 Member
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    Wouldn't be doing it for weight loss. Would be doing it for detox only

    From experience, water fasting for any reason can lead to later excessive consumption of the foods you are trying detox out of your system. Water fasting is not healthy, and the potential natural signs of hunger, lightheadedness, and headaches are proof.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Water fasting for a day or so is not unhealthy, but it doesn't do anything to "detox" and is not a good approach to weight loss. My suspicion when someone bring it up here is they are thinking about it as a weight loss tool, and so I think the reaction is appropriate. If you were interested in spiritual aspects, why bring it up on MFP?
  • hoppinglark
    hoppinglark Posts: 213 Member
    Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
    Look him up.

    Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
    I don't see the value.

    If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.

    If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.

    Don't waste money on scams.


    Gabriel Brooks PharmD
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited May 2017
    hoppinglark wrote: »
    Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
    Look him up.

    Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
    I don't see the value.

    If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.

    If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.

    Don't waste money on scams.


    Gabriel Brooks PharmD

    Ironic post is ironic. :D
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    edited May 2017
    hoppinglark wrote: »
    Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
    Look him up.

    Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
    I don't see the value.

    If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.

    If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.

    Don't waste money on scams.


    Gabriel Brooks PharmD

    fung also thinks a person with type 2 diabetes with a 6+ A1c level can do fine without insulin ,and that his diet can "cure" diabetes. when most of the time all that is needed for most is losing weight and eating a certain way.at best hes a quack
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
    edited May 2017
    Where on Earth is everyone getting the idea to water fast? JFC... it's completely unnecessary.
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    Water fasting is drinking only water. Not actually fasting from water. No food. Just water.

    1. Your body detoxes itself. Detox is a marketing buzz word used to sell laxatives. If you needed a detox you'd be in the ER hooked up to a bunch of machines.
    2. If you manage to survive 24 hours on just water you wouldn't cause harm. If you do it a few times a month you could potentially cause harm. Harm meaning you'll destroy your lean mass making it harder to maintain weight loss.
    3. Overly restrictive diets (such as a water fast) lead to yo-yo dieting. Starve yourself for a day, keep strict for a few more days, binge eat on weekends, back to square one over and over and over again.

    Well said.
    mohamedahmed07 wrote: »
    cross2bear wrote: »
    mohamedahmed07 wrote: »
    Ayybee1114 wrote: »
    I need some opinions on water fasting.

    Intermittent fasting is proved by science to lower insulin levels, increase insulin sensitivity, raise growth hormone which is a fat burning/muscle building hormone, and it helps curing many diseases, it is now being used to help people with cancer and diabetes and YES it helps reducing FAT, so if you're into losing fat instead of weight it is really good and it's also good for your hormones, you can find more about it on google, but every topic is always positive, it's only bad side is that it's quite hard to eat in a 8hours window and stop eating for 16hours

    If you're talking about no food whole day and just water, then it also works, but twice a week or so, over doing it is harmful, you can search it on google as well.

    This is bunk. EVERYONE fasts at one point or another (while we sleep), and it does nothing for cancer or any other disease. Intermittent Fasting is simply a way of eating, and it is easy to eat within an 8 hour window and not eat for 16 hours - again, the sleeping thing. Honestly, people spend way too much time on google and being bamboozled.

    You lack knowledge.

    http://www.cancerdefeated.com/the-most-effective-way-to-beat-cancer-is-free-and-do-it-yourself/3105/

    http://www.hope4cancer.com/information/healing-cancer-on-time-how-intermittent-fasting-may-help.html

    http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2015/07/03/intermittent-fasting-cancer-treatment.aspx

    If a calorie is a calorie can you explain why I NEVER could lose weight for 4months straight with 500 calories under my maintenance level, 50 grams of sugar a day, 70% carbs 25% protein 5% fat while lifting weights?

    Can you prove all these websites and researches wrong?

    Yes you can't lose weight without being in a caloric deficit but for some people it doesn't work, then they have to use some sort of tools (low carbs, intermittent fasting and other diets)
    A calorie is a calorie. Go look up the actual definition. Calories are not nutrition. You bluntly and rudely tell someone that they lack knowledge. Huh.

    And Mercola? Seriously? *shakes head* None of the sites listed are remotely science.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    hoppinglark wrote: »
    Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
    Look him up.

    Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
    I don't see the value.

    If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.

    If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.

    Don't waste money on scams.


    Gabriel Brooks PharmD


    Yes activated charcoal is used when people have swallowed poisons - nil value in anyone just taking it for no reason.

    Metamucil is simply a fibre supplement - good as a bulking agent for people who are constipated. Nil value for liver or bile issues.

    Diabetics are last people who should do water fasts. As has been said, harmless in short term for most people - but diabetics on medication should eat regular meals. ( in calorie controlled portions, of course)
  • hoppinglark
    hoppinglark Posts: 213 Member
    edited May 2017
    Yes activated charcoal is used when people have swallowed poisons - nil value in anyone just taking it for no reason.

    Metamucil is simply a fibre supplement - good as a bulking agent for people who are constipated. Nil value for liver or bile issues.

    Diabetics are last people who should do water fasts. As has been said, harmless in short term for most people - but diabetics on medication should eat regular meals. ( in calorie controlled portions, of course)

    Yes, that's my point! The only real product studied for detox is activated charcoal.

    I'm guessing you've never looked into how fiber reduces cholesterol then.
    Considering this was taught to me academically, I consider it a simple fact.
    A quick google of "how fiber reduces cholesterol" turns up several pages explaining this relationship.

    First one I found : http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/fiber-reduce-ldl-5545.html

    Bile Acids
    In addition to producing and processing cholesterol, your liver also uses cholesterol to make bile acids. The bile acids travel through the bile duct from the liver to the gall bladder, which stores it until needed. When you eat a meal containing fat, the gall bladder releases bile into the intestines where the bile acids break apart the fat molecules to promote the absorption of the fat and the fat-soluble vitamins. Your body then reabsorbs approximately 95 percent of the bile acids from the intestines back into the blood stream where they travel to the liver and back to the gall bladder to be re-secreted into the intestines to aid fat digestion.
    Fiber Action
    Soluble fiber found in foods, such as oats, beans, peas and some fruits like apples and citrus fruits, binds to cholesterol and bile acids in the intestine and promotes their excretion. When the soluble fiber binds to and removes bile acids from your body, the amount re-circulated decreases so your liver must use more cholesterol to produce more bile acids, therefore lowering the amount of cholesterol in the body available to make LDL. In fact, Colorado State University confirms that bile acid secretion is a major route for eliminating cholesterol. In addition, a study published in the “American Journal of Clinical Nutrition” concluded that consuming 2 to 10 grams of soluble fiber per day produced a small but significant decrease in LDL cholesterol levels.


    I find you attitude that "Diabetics should never fast" contrary to history, Prior to Eli Lilly mass producing insulin, starvation diets were the only way to control diabetes type 1.
    While I would never recommend that a Type 1 diabetic fast, If fasting could help a Type 2 diabetic get off of their sulfonylurea, Meglitinides, or similar medications, that would halt the disease in it's tracks.

    In my line of work I've found that some people will "demand" a de-tox product, in a retail setting I know my employer has all sorts of nonsense on the shelf, I can simply dismiss their concerns or explain that the only products I've seen discussed in the literature to have any detox properties are activated charcoal and psyllium.

    I chose the latter.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited May 2017
    This content has been removed.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,302 Member
    edited May 2017
    I don't agree that fasting will help type 2 diabetics get off their medication - but it will muck up their blood sugar stability.

    Losing weight may result in reduction of meds - but no need for fasting to do that.

    Charcoal has a specific detoxing role in poisons - not in general detoxing as people mean it on here so no need for anyone to choose it.
    Nor fibre supplements for detoxing either.

    Or anything for detoxing since there is no need or purpose for such in the way people starting threads mean it.
    Nobody starts a thread saying Ive swallowed poisons, should I use charcoal to detox?
This discussion has been closed.

Categories