Another study about how Red Meat is going to kill us

crazyycatladyy1

Well, maybe-

http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/05/17/red-meat-eaters-may-have-higher-risk-dying-from-these-9-diseases.html

actual study-
http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1957

I've recently switched to a more whole foods, plant based diet with fish almost daily, (loosely basing my woe on one of the blue zones right now). I'm focused on adding certain things to my diet, (veggies, whole grains, beans, fish etc), and have reduced my meat consumption to balance these additions, (only so many hours and calories in the day). I still eat beef around 1 time a week, have completely eliminated pork except for the occasional bacon, and the biggest reduction has actually been chicken-I've pretty much swapped the daily chicken I was eating with fish. It would seem that I'm on the right track, barring the chicken reduction, but who knows.

Thoughts on the study?

eta: edited for clarity

crazyycatladyy1

TeacupsAndToning wrote: »

I can't speak to much of this because I often find that these studies are so loaded with jargon that I have to read it a few times before I get everything, but in relation to iron - red meat is something that people with high iron are told to eat sparingly. So for that one, I completely agree. If you're eating something that has a high iron content and you have iron overload that's obviously bad for you. It's also extremely common - one in every two to three hundred people - but so many people have it and go undiagnosed and iron overload, if left untreated, has numerous side effects like bronzing of the skin, arthritis, fatigue, organ failure, liver cancer, etc.

But otherwise, I don't know.

If I eat a ton of tuna at some point that will be bad for me.
If I only drink pop at some point that will be bad for me.
If I only eat bananas at some point that will be bad for me.

So far these studies only ever make me feel like I'm right in my thinking that moderation is key.

Yeah, I have a hard time understanding what the actual studies are saying, but I know there's sciency people here who live and breath this stuff lol I always appreciate it when people break down studies and pull out what actually is being said/found vs what a headline on a news article is saying!

crazyycatladyy1

TeacupsAndToning wrote: »

Oh fudge, you quoted me before I made my corrections lol

just updated my post to reflect your updated post

T0M_K

you can find a study to support any position. jus sayin.

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T0M_K

i'd recommend adding bacon and cheese to the burger.

Macy9336

I thought fish was a type of meat.....

anaxmann

Interesting study. Probably won't make me eat more white meat and less red meat. Although, I have to wonder what the tipping point is for statistically increased risk, maybe I already eat an appropriate balance.

crazyycatladyy1

Macy9336 wrote: »

I thought fish was a type of meat.....

From what I understand of the study it shows that chicken and fish don't cause issues, just red meat (processed and non-processed).

Or are you referring to my woe in the op?

crazyycatladyy1

lunchmuffin wrote: »

egad, fox news. now i have to question my working hypothesis.

the study is the second link in the op (the fox article included it, which was refreshing).

quiksylver296

BEEF - it's what's for dinner.





JK - it's chicken and dumplings tonight.

NorthCascades

Tomk652015 wrote: »

you can find a study to support any position. jus sayin.

Show me a study to show that obesity makes people grow wings and fly. Otherwise, this is BS. jus sayin.

cwolfman13

My take is that more than likely there is a correlation between eating a lot of red meat and processed meat and a poor diet in general in regards to the general populace. So is it the red meat, or is it that their diet is lacking in fruit and veg and just nutritionally lacking in general...and also likely lacking in regular physical activity.

I'm coming at this more from what I've observed in the real world (not MFP)...friend's, family, colleagues, etc.

Most of my fitness friends are not only into their fitness, but also into healthier living on the whole...most of my fitness friends tend towards fish and poultry and beef here and there...they eat a lot of vegetables and fruit and a lot of other whole foods and keep treats as treats.

Conversely, I have some friends that really aren't into fitness or health or anything like that...it's not anything they think about or are concerned with. Most of them rarely eat fish...occasionally chicken, but most of their animal protein consumption is burgers, hotdogs, sausages, bacon, etc. They also don't get much in the way of fruit or veg or other things like legumes or lentils or whole grains like oats, etc. Basically beef and potato folk (with the potato generally coming in the form of french fries).

I used to be that guy...I ate beef a couple of times per day most days or lunch meat, etc...I ate bratwurst a couple times per week...I was probably lucky to get a single serving...maybe two of vegetables per day. I rarely ever ate fruit, and my diet was rich in soda, chips, french fries, etc and my health suffered for it as per my blood work. I was also very physically inactive.

It seems most of the studies try to pin point something...like beef...but is it the beef or is it that a diet consisting of a lot of beef and processed meat goods is also more likely to be poor nutritionally speaking for other reasons (especially in 'murica), while someone eating a diet of fish and poultry is more likely to be simply more health conscious in general and eat a better all around diet and exercise regularly?

lemurcat12

cwolfman13 wrote: »

My take is that more than likely there is a correlation between eating a lot of red meat and processed meat and a poor diet in general in regards to the general populace. So is it the red meat, or is it that their diet is lacking in fruit and veg and just nutritionally lacking in general...and also likely lacking in regular physical activity.

This is what I was going to say.

I think there's some evidence that there might be something more than a correlation with red meat, but is it that significant, such that it outweighs what the benefits of eating it might be for an individual? Not stressing, eating a generally nutrient-dense diet, being able to easily avoid overeating might--for an individual--be related to not worrying about red meat consumption (same with dairy, eating some processed meat, eating meat in general, carb percentage, mercury in fish, etc.), so for the most part I find these interesting but they don't deeply affect how I eat.

I've varied a lot in how much meat I eat, eating a lot right now, but also eat fish a lot (nearly daily -- don't care about mercury since I'm not going to get pregnant), and prioritize eating vegetables. I think most dietary differences matter less than things like stress, sleep, community, and exercise/activity.

There's an enormous diversity in traditional diets (although current blue zones mostly are more plant-based, yeah), and for the most part they don't seem to have led to the kinds of bad health results that the western pattern diet/lifestyle does.

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crazyycatladyy1

lunchmuffin wrote: »

sorry op, i didn't mean for my disdain for the msm to turn into rudeness. I quit meat and dairy some time ago. i heard recently that chicken breast is just as bad about cholesterol and inflammation as red meat. it seems like we hear something different every day. I do feel better since laying off m&d though.

totally understandable, I read fox news with a hefty dose of skepticism

tomteboda

Meat will kill me, but it will be a glorious, delicious death.

subcounter

Meh, sadly these type of analysis are extremely difficult to validate, as it's not really possible to have controlled environments for the said data.

The source is questionnaires as well. Another meh. This is simply a statistical analysis with questionable results that the authors inferred from the said data with no validation possibility.

Red meat usually is consumed more in higher income housings & nations, so we can infer that money causes increased mortality?

Did the authors consider the use of organic red meat vs hormone pumped meat? They didn't even differentiate processed & unprocessed meat.

And another weird bit, somehow the authors interchange poultry and red meat as if its a multiplier in an equation, and infer results. Do they think red meat eaters, and poultry-only eaters have the exact same life-styles, and eating behaviors, therefore coming to a conclusion of interchanging the one aspect simply changed the subjects life-spans? How interesting. Sadly that was the only original finding of the research.

Just because some data correlates to one another, it doesn't mean that they have causality, this somehow seems like one of these:

AlabasterVerve

The sheer quantity of these things makes you think they're must be something to it right? But no, it's all complete BS. I'm embarrassed for them.

Also, Red Meat Will Kill You – and make it look like an accident

nevadavis1

subcounter wrote: »

Just because some data correlates to one another, it doesn't mean that they have causality, this somehow seems like one of these:

Except for that one about lemons and highway fatalities. That's 100% legit! Lemons, I have my eye on you!

I will say that my rheumatologist (for lupus) says that he can see in people's blood work that the inflammation markers go down if they reduce red meat and eat more vegetables instead. But that's in a select population of course and not a broad study. But when he said he could tell I thought "ok, there's probably something there." I know others will disagree vehemently though.

I like the comments about moderation in everything, though honestly, I'm not sure that many people today even know what moderation looks like, with all the portion-skewing and easy availability of every type of food.

I'm not convinced chicken or fish are healthy things to eat in large amounts either. Aren't they always testing stuff and telling us that it's contaminated and poisoned and toxic?

Not why I'm vegan though, I'm vegan for ethics so I don't always read up on all the various meat health studies. However, all the health studies on vegetables, I'm all over those.

moonstroller

I've come to the conclusion that living on the planet Earth will eventually kill me.

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Need2Exerc1se

Tomk652015 wrote: »

you can find a study to support any position. jus sayin.

I doubt that's true.

Need2Exerc1se

The association with processed meats and disease is pretty well established. Including both processed and unprocessed skews the study too much to make any valid link between unprocessed meat and disease.

crazyycatladyy1

suzannesimmons3 wrote: »

crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »

Macy9336 wrote: »

I thought fish was a type of meat.....

From what I understand of the study it shows that chicken and fish don't cause issues, just red meat (processed and non-processed).

Or are you referring to my woe in the op?

Doesn't fish give you mercury and heavy metal poisoning....according to studies.

It really varies based on kind of fish and then location of where the fish came from (and if it was farmed or wild caught). Right now I only eat wild caught salmon.

http://www.ewg.org/research/ewgs-good-seafood-guide/executive-summary

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cwolfman13

suzannesimmons3 wrote: »

crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »

Macy9336 wrote: »

I thought fish was a type of meat.....

From what I understand of the study it shows that chicken and fish don't cause issues, just red meat (processed and non-processed).

Or are you referring to my woe in the op?

Doesn't fish give you mercury and heavy metal poisoning....according to studies.

This would very much depend on the fish...not all fish are high mercury...there are a lot of fish with very low mercury. I eat a lot of salmon, wild Alaskan cod, and shrimp...all of which are pretty low and not really an issue.

CSARdiver

I refer to the wisdom of Chris Rock "If you lucky enough to get your hands on a steak, bite the s$!t out of it!"

Macy9336

One thing to limit is salt cured meat...such as bacon, ham, corned beef. It's been linked to cancer.

armchairherpetologist

I love red meat. A great big thick super rare strip steak is amazing. Steak tartare is one of my favorite things in the world. That delicious minced up beef with the egg yolk on it. I could have a strip steak for dinner and some tartare for dessert and be super happy.

I'm wondering what other factors affect this.

saintor1

I limited my meat intake to a point that thanks to MFP I realized that my protein intake was too low. I eat meat every 3 days or so. Exception to bacon, 3-4x per week. I know that I should avoid it.