McDougall Diet
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I haven't heard of McDougall's diet, but I had good results from Autoimmune Paleo Diet. I don't follow it now, but between that and GAPS diet, I was able to greatly improve a lot of my symptoms. If I had MS, I'd certainly go more in the direction of the Wahl's AIP protocol.
Diet can do amazing things for autoimmune diseases, but not everyone has the same success trying the same thing. And it's difficult to do...you have to stick to these things so carefully. I often have a return of symptoms just because I've eaten black pepper or something equally innocuous.
I say, if this plan sounds like it might work for you, give it a try. If it doesn't work, try something else. If it does work, fantastic. More likely, parts of it will benefit you and parts of it won't, but you'll learn more about your body, your health, and how to manage your symptoms.1 -
This thread is not going anywhere. Now certain individuals are starting to act childish with snide little remarks. Well done. Very grown up.
Wow.
I am with you! I have read Campbell, Fuhrman, Blue Zones... food changes so much more than our waistlines. Our cognitive health, joint/system inflammation, risk of non communicable diseases, etc etc are are all affected by what we put in our mouths!
For about 6 weeks I've been following WFPB with allowances for a few non-WFBP (but vegan) items. And I've actually stopped tracking here because I've lost 5lbs in that timeframe without effort. I was at a healthy weight but interested in maybe dropping 10-15lb. The other benefits are longer term but I feel brilliantly happy knowing I'm giving my body the best shot to live disease/cancer free!
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I'm looking into a vegan lifestyle too. Thank you for posting this OP and I hope you are able to connect with folks who may be on the same path as you.2
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itsfitnessnotrocketscience wrote: »This thread is not going anywhere. Now certain individuals are starting to act childish with snide little remarks. Well done. Very grown up.
Wow.
I am with you! I have read Campbell, Fuhrman, Blue Zones... food changes so much more than our waistlines. Our cognitive health, joint/system inflammation, risk of non communicable diseases, etc etc are are all affected by what we put in our mouths!
For about 6 weeks I've been following WFPB with allowances for a few non-WFBP (but vegan) items. And I've actually stopped tracking here because I've lost 5lbs in that timeframe without effort. I was at a healthy weight but interested in maybe dropping 10-15lb. The other benefits are longer term but I feel brilliantly happy knowing I'm giving my body the best shot to live disease/cancer free!
I've also read the above, and the blue zones studies are the only one of the three that actually compelled me to experiment with my woe, (as well as the big meta study that recently came out for the Imperial College London). However, having switched to a mostly whole foods, plant based diet hasn't done anything for me-I didn't lose any weight and I'm still within my maintenance range. I don't feel any different and frankly the whole experiment has been a bit anti-climatic. I thought something would happen by making such a drastic change to my woe (I ate pretty SAD before), but nope, nothing, nada. I go in for blood work next month and I'm curious to see if anything magical has happened on the inside, though I was already in excellent health so I don't know what can really change. What first drew me to the blue zones was the longevity of life outcomes, but the women in my family tend to live longer anyways, so again not sure there would be much of a difference. I'll keep at my experiment until I get my blood work done and then re-evaluate. Maybe I'll try low carb next
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I haven't tried the diet. I purchased some of the soup cups only because of the high fiber content to help with my cholesterol. They were so so.0
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YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »Like Doctor Oz, the man is simply out to make a name for himself and to put money in the bank. Sorry, but no way would I just believe what he has said. Where is the scientific proof? Oh right, he has none because his claims can't be backed by science.
Yep, this. I eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet based on actual, legitimate research/studies. I'd never count McDougall/Furhman/Esselstyn etc as legitimate resources though, because of what others have pointed out-they're trying to make a buck by preying on people's fears and desperation. Nothing wrong with a plant based diet if it's done right (one that's balanced and nutrient dense), but I'd steer clear of any guru who claims any certain way of eating is a 'miracle' and is making money off of those claims.
Op, if you're feeling led to become a vegan I'd highly recommend reading from Virginia Messina. She's a dietician who's a vegan and approaches veganism much differently than McDougall. She has a new book out that addresses health and veganism, Even Vegans Die. Her website has lots of great info as well http://www.theveganrd.com/
I don't know about the other guys, but Furham is good. He has a family practice and has no problem medicating his patients if they need it. He just advocated a plant based diet. I've used his cook books and I can tell you, they are very balanced, and nutrient dense.
He claims that his woe reverses diabetes, 'detoxes' the body etc etc. From his site-Harness your body’s tremendous power to heal itself through proper nutrition
You don’t have to live with a debilitating, chronic disease—the Nutritarian diet allows you to take control of your health destiny through superior nutrition
More claims of 'miracles'. He also sells everything from supplements to salad dressings, and retreats where all your problems will be fixed, for a price
I know. I've actually bought his probiotics and salad dressings. So tasty. One is a tuscano herb. I highly recommend it.
Look, I'm not here to get into a pissing match over a vegan doctor. I think he has valid points about feeling better on a nutritious diet as opposed to a *kitten* diet. I think his cook books are excellent for balanced nutrient dense food. And I take it for what it is. A well thought out, well explained vegan diet.
I used to respect him more before he became so commercialized, (I've read his older books/hung out quite a bit on his old website/blog). It seems though that he's now just like all the other diet gurus out there-selling a woe as the One True Way. That's why I like Messina so much-she's a vegan dietician and doesn't promote veganisim as the cure all, but as a legitimate woe that has it's pluses and negatives.
eta: sorry my previous posts have come off as a bit 'cranky'-I'm dealing with shingles right now and I'm not in a good mood
I do agree that he is a "one true way" advocate. Like I said, I'm a meat eater, so I obviously don't subscribe to everything he says, but I do use his books for nutritional information, and for cooking awesome vegan dishes. I've never been one to look for cures in food, but it wasn't until I read his book that I really became aware of *nutrition*. For example, I would go into the supermarket and look at items and say "so what nutritional value am I getting from this". So I can say that his book helped me learn how to eat *better* than I was before.
Just a little follow up to our side discussion of Furham-I've been digging around his website and he actually doesn't advocate completely cutting out meat if one doesn't want to, but instead to just minimize it and make smarter choices (like low mercury fish etc). I also realized, after reading through his plan, that I'm pretty much following his woe- right down to the big salad every day with the same veggie/add-in combinations. Soooo, I have to apologize for arguing with you, because I guess I'm a Furhman follower without even realizing it lol
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singingflutela ... Did he? The only thing I've witnessed on the videos I watched was testimonials of those that have had success with the diet. Testimonials from folks.
The thing is, I am not here to speak for him and defend his diet, but it looks super interesting for me and better than 99.9% of the diets out there - especially the idiotic LCHF diets ...
Well I have been on an "idiotic" LCHF diet for over a year and half for the purpose of controlling RA and I have had great success. I don't know why you would post insulting other people's choices and then get offended that you didn't get support. Basically you are your own person and if vegan works for you go for it. It doesn't work for me. The less grains I eat the better I feel. Honestly the less vegetables I eat the better I feel. It sounds like you have thrived on a similar diet in the past so why not try it again. I'm not going call whatever diet makes you feel best idiotic because to each their own.
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crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »Like Doctor Oz, the man is simply out to make a name for himself and to put money in the bank. Sorry, but no way would I just believe what he has said. Where is the scientific proof? Oh right, he has none because his claims can't be backed by science.
Yep, this. I eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet based on actual, legitimate research/studies. I'd never count McDougall/Furhman/Esselstyn etc as legitimate resources though, because of what others have pointed out-they're trying to make a buck by preying on people's fears and desperation. Nothing wrong with a plant based diet if it's done right (one that's balanced and nutrient dense), but I'd steer clear of any guru who claims any certain way of eating is a 'miracle' and is making money off of those claims.
Op, if you're feeling led to become a vegan I'd highly recommend reading from Virginia Messina. She's a dietician who's a vegan and approaches veganism much differently than McDougall. She has a new book out that addresses health and veganism, Even Vegans Die. Her website has lots of great info as well http://www.theveganrd.com/
I don't know about the other guys, but Furham is good. He has a family practice and has no problem medicating his patients if they need it. He just advocated a plant based diet. I've used his cook books and I can tell you, they are very balanced, and nutrient dense.
He claims that his woe reverses diabetes, 'detoxes' the body etc etc. From his site-Harness your body’s tremendous power to heal itself through proper nutrition
You don’t have to live with a debilitating, chronic disease—the Nutritarian diet allows you to take control of your health destiny through superior nutrition
More claims of 'miracles'. He also sells everything from supplements to salad dressings, and retreats where all your problems will be fixed, for a price
I know. I've actually bought his probiotics and salad dressings. So tasty. One is a tuscano herb. I highly recommend it.
Look, I'm not here to get into a pissing match over a vegan doctor. I think he has valid points about feeling better on a nutritious diet as opposed to a *kitten* diet. I think his cook books are excellent for balanced nutrient dense food. And I take it for what it is. A well thought out, well explained vegan diet.
I used to respect him more before he became so commercialized, (I've read his older books/hung out quite a bit on his old website/blog). It seems though that he's now just like all the other diet gurus out there-selling a woe as the One True Way. That's why I like Messina so much-she's a vegan dietician and doesn't promote veganisim as the cure all, but as a legitimate woe that has it's pluses and negatives.
eta: sorry my previous posts have come off as a bit 'cranky'-I'm dealing with shingles right now and I'm not in a good mood
I do agree that he is a "one true way" advocate. Like I said, I'm a meat eater, so I obviously don't subscribe to everything he says, but I do use his books for nutritional information, and for cooking awesome vegan dishes. I've never been one to look for cures in food, but it wasn't until I read his book that I really became aware of *nutrition*. For example, I would go into the supermarket and look at items and say "so what nutritional value am I getting from this". So I can say that his book helped me learn how to eat *better* than I was before.
Just a little follow up to our side discussion of Furham-I've been digging around his website and he actually doesn't advocate completely cutting out meat if one doesn't want to, but instead to just minimize it and make smarter choices (like low mercury fish etc). I also realized, after reading through his plan, that I'm pretty much following his woe- right down to the big salad every day with the same veggie/add-in combinations. Soooo, I have to apologize for arguing with you, because I guess I'm a Furhman follower without even realizing it lol
Oh, no apology necessary. I get that he gets lumped in because of what he sells, and such. I just like his information, and think a lot of it works.
Hope you're feeling ok.1 -
notlunchmuffin wrote: »i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op
The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.2 -
There's a thread running right now in the general discussion section with a video link to a talk by Brad Schoenfeld on dieting and fat loss. One of the points he addresses is the importance of protein intake during dieting and why this is so.
There is nothing wrong with veganism (I'm a vegetarian and toy with the idea of transitioning one day myself) or consuming a diet that has a lot of starch. McDougall is weirdly anti-protein, though, and this has serious implications for dieting AND aging people. The importance of preservation of muscle while dieting and while aging cannot be stressed enough. Adequate protein intake and resistance training of some sort protect against lean tissue loss.
Even if you're not dieting, you will be getting older. Sarcopenia is a scary, scary thing. Look up pictures of x-rays of older people with it.
I urge you to carefully consider your choices with undertaking any eating plan that demonizes any macro-nutrient, especially one as important as protein.7 -
Tried30UserNames wrote: »notlunchmuffin wrote: »i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op
The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.
The majority of the people on this site are avidly against named diets that have arbitrary rules that discourage balanced eating.
McDougall is cool in that he's not afraid of starch, but his stance on fat and protein is... odd.
Why are you implying that people here get their ideas on nutrition from a "slavish devotion" to information gleaned from gp's?
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Tried30UserNames wrote: »notlunchmuffin wrote: »i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op
The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.
i beg to differ. most people on this site are against woo and unnecessary restrictions which an op presents as necessary to weight loss and which are not, in fact, necessary for weight loss.
nobody says "don't do keto" "don't be vegan" "don't drink green tea." but there is going to be push back always if what you're doing is being propounded as the ONE TRUE WAY. or if you extrapolate what works for you as a hard and fast set of rules that should work for everyone. the only works for everyone is CICO, how you get there is up to you and that's what is constantly being said. this is especially true if someone comes to the forums and says that they WANT to be doing a particular diet but they struggle with it, because it's important for people to know that there are a million ways to get to CI<CO.10 -
singingflutela ... Did he? The only thing I've witnessed on the videos I watched was testimonials of those that have had success with the diet. Testimonials from folks.
The thing is, I am not here to speak for him and defend his diet, but it looks super interesting for me and better than 99.9% of the diets out there - especially the idiotic LCHF diets ...
Well I have been on an "idiotic" LCHF diet for over a year and half for the purpose of controlling RA and I have had great success. I don't know why you would post insulting other people's choices and then get offended that you didn't get support. Basically you are your own person and if vegan works for you go for it. It doesn't work for me. The less grains I eat the better I feel. Honestly the less vegetables I eat the better I feel. It sounds like you have thrived on a similar diet in the past so why not try it again. I'm not going call whatever diet makes you feel best idiotic because to each their own.
The thing that I think is idiotic (poor word choice) is promoting more meat consumption considering what is happening with the environment knowing that how we 'grow' that meat is one of the biggest culprits in environmental degradation (not to mention how absolutely ethically horrible factory farms are to animals themselves) ... Also, I have a few friends that went along with the diet and went into a bit of an overdrive stuffing themselves with steaks and little of anything else and it for some reason got on my nerves.
If it worked for your RA, more power to you.
It's just that to promote this diet as a way for everyone to eat ... doesn't seem very sustainable.
I apologize for offending, that was actually not my intention. I just felt attacked for mentioning McDougall's diet and I guess I got defensive.1 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »Tried30UserNames wrote: »notlunchmuffin wrote: »i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op
The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.
i beg to differ. most people on this site are against woo and unnecessary restrictions which an op presents as necessary to weight loss and which are not, in fact, necessary for weight loss.
nobody says "don't do keto" "don't be vegan" "don't drink green tea." but there is going to be push back always if what you're doing is being propounded as the ONE TRUE WAY. or if you extrapolate what works for you as a hard and fast set of rules that should work for everyone. the only works for everyone is CICO, how you get there is up to you and that's what is constantly being said. this is especially true if someone comes to the forums and says that they WANT to be doing a particular diet but they struggle with it, because it's important for people to know that there are a million ways to get to CI<CO.
OMG, am I actually saying that? I think you need to re-read what I wrote because I did not say it - ever.
What I did say, though, is that I do not need to lose weight like three separate times.
I also said that I'm interested in this diet for following reasons: 1. to diminish inflammation in my body, 2. to become vegan, 3. to become healthier ...
I never said that his way is 'the one true way.' If he says so, that's on him and we're all adults (hopefully) and have brains and can decide on our own. I want to give this diet a try. I came on here to seek support. Instead ... well, the thread speaks for itself.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There's a thread running right now in the general discussion section with a video link to a talk by Brad Schoenfeld on dieting and fat loss. One of the points he addresses is the importance of protein intake during dieting and why this is so.
There is nothing wrong with veganism (I'm a vegetarian and toy with the idea of transitioning one day myself) or consuming a diet that has a lot of starch. McDougall is weirdly anti-protein, though, and this has serious implications for dieting AND aging people. The importance of preservation of muscle while dieting and while aging cannot be stressed enough. Adequate protein intake and resistance training of some sort protect against lean tissue loss.
Even if you're not dieting, you will be getting older. Sarcopenia is a scary, scary thing. Look up pictures of x-rays of older people with it.
I urge you to carefully consider your choices with undertaking any eating plan that demonizes any macro-nutrient, especially one as important as protein.
Thanks for the suggestion. Finally a comment that doesn't make fun of or criticise my choice/the diet and instead makes a real point.
I'll take that into consideration.0 -
singingflutela ... Did he? The only thing I've witnessed on the videos I watched was testimonials of those that have had success with the diet. Testimonials from folks.
The thing is, I am not here to speak for him and defend his diet, but it looks super interesting for me and better than 99.9% of the diets out there - especially the idiotic LCHF diets ...
Well I have been on an "idiotic" LCHF diet for over a year and half for the purpose of controlling RA and I have had great success. I don't know why you would post insulting other people's choices and then get offended that you didn't get support. Basically you are your own person and if vegan works for you go for it. It doesn't work for me. The less grains I eat the better I feel. Honestly the less vegetables I eat the better I feel. It sounds like you have thrived on a similar diet in the past so why not try it again. I'm not going call whatever diet makes you feel best idiotic because to each their own.
The thing that I think is idiotic (poor word choice) is promoting more meat consumption considering what is happening with the environment knowing that how we 'grow' that meat is one of the biggest culprits in environmental degradation (not to mention how absolutely ethically horrible factory farms are to animals themselves) ...
Most people who don't LCHF eat meat.
Some people who LCHF don't eat meat.
Many or most people who transition from a higher carb diet to LCHF do not increase the amount of meat they eat.
Therefore, calling LCHF out specifically based on your views about meat-eating doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
I also find that some or even a lot of people who LCHF (as well as various other nutrition or ethically-concerned meat eaters) are more likely to focus on sources of meat other than factory farming and which are less problematic for the environment. They may be interested in consuming grass fed or free range animals, buy from local farms they are familiar with, hunt, buy from people they know who hunt and fish, etc. There's also a legitimate argument as to whether there are more environmentally-sound ways to raise animals for food than we currently do. I have relatives who have been ranchers in western Nebraska for some time, and there are areas around there and in the west of the country in general where grazing animals is probably more environmentally appropriate than trying to farm (and irrigate). There are reasons why this is not where our farming dollar is focused -- factory farming is more profitable -- but it's not so simple as meat or not if you want to make it about the environmental issues, IMO.Also, I have a few friends that went along with the diet and went into a bit of an overdrive stuffing themselves with steaks and little of anything else and it for some reason got on my nerves.
IMO, this would be a silly approach to a LCHF diet. Not that people don't do it, I'm sure they do, but that seems like more of a high protein diet.3 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »Tried30UserNames wrote: »notlunchmuffin wrote: »i KNEW almost everyone would hate this thread. imo mcdougal is awesome. they crucified jesus too so don't worry about it op
The majority of people on this site do seem to be avidly against any type of alternative or experimental ways of eating or anything similar, and they like to gang up and silence any dissenting opinion. It is just MFP's way and you have to learn to live with it. The thing I find most humorous about this slavish devotion to one's local gp is that doctors don't even study nutrition in medical school for more than about 30 seconds. Your doctor is likely not as knowledgeable about nutrition and weight loss as your average new Weight Watchers member.
i beg to differ. most people on this site are against woo and unnecessary restrictions which an op presents as necessary to weight loss and which are not, in fact, necessary for weight loss.
nobody says "don't do keto" "don't be vegan" "don't drink green tea." but there is going to be push back always if what you're doing is being propounded as the ONE TRUE WAY. or if you extrapolate what works for you as a hard and fast set of rules that should work for everyone. the only works for everyone is CICO, how you get there is up to you and that's what is constantly being said. this is especially true if someone comes to the forums and says that they WANT to be doing a particular diet but they struggle with it, because it's important for people to know that there are a million ways to get to CI<CO.
Exactly this!1 -
VintageFeline ... I have psoriasis guttate (that's an autoimmune disease) and I've recently been having issues with specific joints where I have mild but persistent pain.
I don't go to doctors, I usually try to take care of whatever issue I have on my own and go to a doctor only if it's gotten so bad I cannot manage it on my own. Plus, most doctors do one thing and one thing only: prescribe medication.
Flaring in the big toe sounds like goute2 -
paperpudding wrote: »I've recently started having an issue with my big toe joint, which can also be due to bad shoes and a shoulder pain that can also be due to imbalance of my spine due to my scoliosis/lordosis that I've had since I was born ... I don't really want to find out what is causing it, I just want to lower the level of inflammation (or completely eliminate it) in my body and going vegan sounds great to my animal loving ears (except the vegetable oil - what's up with the vegetable oil).
You don't want to find out what is causing your problems but you are just going to put your faith in a diet with no scientific basis????
And everyone who states there is no scientific basis to these claims is just being negative and non supportive???
That seems silly to me.
If you want to eat a vegan diet for whatever reason, do so.
But don't make silly unfounded claims that it cures MS etc and then complain when you get called out on them
I make no such claims. McDougall made a claim that many of his patients with MS improved or it at least slowed the progression down (I read the article on his website a fortnight ago, don't quote me on that), he did not actually claim he has a miracle cure for MS.
I myself don't have RA or MS. I have psoriasis, but only on my skin and it's so mild that I get one dime-sized spot a year somewhere on my body and it's only a little more persistent on my scalp, which actually doesn't bother me much.
I said that I do believe I have elevated levels of inflammation in my body. I think that (because I know my body) and even my chiropractor says so (I have scoliosis, out of whack spine and I go to him to a couple of adjustments a year when it gets too bad). If I went to a doctor with this, he or she'd just look at me like I'm a hypochondriac. If any of my pain gets worse, I'll sure go, but now it seems to early to have anything 'diagnosed,' as I don't think there is anything to diagnose.
I want to try this diet. That was the point of this thread. Plus asking if anyone else follows it.
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rakowskidp wrote: »singingflutela ... Did he? The only thing I've witnessed on the videos I watched was testimonials of those that have had success with the diet. Testimonials from folks.
The thing is, I am not here to speak for him and defend his diet, but it looks super interesting for me and better than 99.9% of the diets out there - especially the idiotic LCHF diets ...
My wife has lost 100+ pounds on LCHF, her cholesterol and glucose numbers are pristine, and her ulcerative colitis is in remission. I'm not a big fan of LCHF, and in fact eat almost the opposite (low-ish fat, high-ish carb vegetarian), but her results speak for themselves.
That is very good! I'm very happy for your wife.
I expressed myself poorly.
The part that I consider idiotic about the diet is the promotion of elevated consumption of meat because of my environmental concerns. I should have said that initially.0
This discussion has been closed.
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