Question for others who also have issues with moderation
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I can really relate to this and agree it's incredibly frustrating to always be looking ahead to the *next* one.
Reminds me of a comedy routine I heard once:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/cz271v/stand-up-jacqueline-novak--the-problem-with-pizza1 -
I had the same problem when I wasnt logging my food... Now that I'm using mfp again I log these things before I eat them. then I can see how effects my calorie "budget" and make a better decision. I eat 2 pieces of chocolate every night. I just take two out and put the bag away.1
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I'm still working on it myself but I've noticed that very often, I'll be eating a cookie... and WHILE I'm eating the cookie I'm already thinking about eating more.
How do you get to the mindset of just enjoying what you're eating without thinking about getting more? I mean, the second cookie will not taste different than the one I'm already eating, so why can't I just enjoy that one as if it was the second one?
Does anyone else do that, and have you managed to overcome it? I mean, I lost 80 lbs... gained back 5 in the last 3 years, still want to lose 10, but it would be so much easier if I stopped overeating on bread, chocolate, and cookies..
Hide any extra portions from yourself! Take one and put the package away before you start eating the first one. Sometimes just the walk to the pantry will allow enough time for some guilt to settle in and win.0 -
Mostly, by knowing I'm not going to be eating more. It's just not an option. No 'maybe if'; this is my one and only cookie, and the rest have already gone into the airtight box in the cupboard.
THIS! I just get one cookie, put up the rest (out of sight out of mind) and tell myself to enjoy it because I'm not having another one.1 -
I love to buy snacks that are already portion sized for me when it comes to cookies, pretzels, etc because if I don't I'll just finish a huge bag.
Good luck!!0 -
I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.1
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I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...0 -
Broccoli has a high concentration of compounds that trigger the bitter taste, as bitterness is highly associated with VERY toxic compounds. We are programmed for survival to avoid broccoli. Your brain, unconsciously, is likely telling you "this stuff is dangerous if I eat too much", making moderation quite simple.
sugar / 100 g (per USDA)
strawberries... 5 g
peaches... 8 g
bananas... 12 g
Kemp's French Vanilla Ice Cream ... 20 g
So suppose you make "banana ice cream" by slicing, freezing, then blending a banana. You think it's oh so much less sugar than regular ice cream, and you're sort of right.. but instead of eating half a cup, you eat a cup of the stuff because it's just a banana, after all.
Now, there's lots of lovely things about bananas and strawberries and peaches, like their delicious flavors and the fiber and mineral content, but let's face it, ice cream also has nutrients in it as well (not just calories), and you're getting real sugar from both.4 -
I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...
Which suggests that the difficulty in moderating is not specifically sugar.
What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat (cookies, ice cream, and other common treats are wrongly called carbs, as they are half fat too), and carbs/fat/salt (french fries, chips, mashed potato with butter, fried chicken, naan dipped in curry, pizza, burgers, etc. -- obviously some of these have protein too). Even fat/salt is tough for some of us, as I could overeat cheese and olives, and find those harder to moderate than many sweets (I can also overeat creamed spinach, easily). And contrary to popular claims, I see people eat immoderate amounts of steak quite often (protein + fat + salt, maybe), and I bet people exist who will overeat bacon.4 -
Anyway, back to OP's question and thinking about my own issues, structure is important to me (I know I'm more likely to overeat under certain conditions -- not logging, not eating in an organized fashion, not saving "treats" for special times, not having internal rules like "only a serving" or "only one"). However, like she said, that was really easy for me when I was actively losing weight and it's mostly not now. I think what changed was that when I was focused on losing a bunch of weight and felt my current weight was absolutely unacceptable it was easy to give myself a reason to choose moderating vs. eating more -- it was really the one thing that allowed me to keep whatever it was in my diet and I was not going to sacrifice the goals that were so important to me.
Now, it's way harder since I'd like to lose more, but does it matter than much to me if I don't lose anything this week and put it off until next week? No. So I have a harder time giving myself a reason. Switching to a low carb experiment stopped that, but because I now have a reason again (not for moderating, but for not wanting certain things) -- it would ruin the experiment that is interesting to me right now. Will this work long-term? No, probably not, so I need to find other reasons. I really think that's what makes losing the last little bit so hard for many of us.1 -
I know you really believe this, you say it frequently.lemurcat12 wrote: »I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...
Which suggests that the difficulty in moderating is not specifically sugar.
What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat (cookies, ice cream, and other common treats are wrongly called carbs, as they are half fat too), and carbs/fat/salt (french fries, chips, mashed potato with butter, fried chicken, naan dipped in curry, pizza, burgers, etc. -- obviously some of these have protein too). Even fat/salt is tough for some of us, as I could overeat cheese and olives, and find those harder to moderate than many sweets (I can also overeat creamed spinach, easily). And contrary to popular claims, I see people eat immoderate amounts of steak quite often (protein + fat + salt, maybe), and I bet people exist who will overeat bacon.
I would argue. I can and have eaten sugar directly from the bowl - and not just a little bit. I can and have eaten pounds of fruit in one sitting, too. I have also eaten ten servings of popcorn, or a half gallon of ice cream, or a box of popsicles or a block of cheese with Triscuits or a whole bag of trail mix. I don't think it's as simple as you make it, and sometimes it's just plain compulsion.
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I think this is issue is different for different people, but personally, I find I have an issue moderating certain foods. I'm not going to binge eat veggies or fruit for instance.
When I start to have a problem moderating something I cut it out temporarily.
Lately, I've been having trouble moderating sweets (cookies, cake, etc.) so I made myself go 7 days without them. I'm still heavily moderating them (once a week for now) and might completely cut them out for a while again because I've found if I stop eating the thing I'm binging on for a while when I start eating it again I don't feel the compulsion to overeat. I guess it's like losing the taste for it. I'll start eating them again whenever I want when I can eat a serving and not care about eating more.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »
I know you really believe this, you say it frequently.lemurcat12 wrote: »I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...
Which suggests that the difficulty in moderating is not specifically sugar.
What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat (cookies, ice cream, and other common treats are wrongly called carbs, as they are half fat too), and carbs/fat/salt (french fries, chips, mashed potato with butter, fried chicken, naan dipped in curry, pizza, burgers, etc. -- obviously some of these have protein too). Even fat/salt is tough for some of us, as I could overeat cheese and olives, and find those harder to moderate than many sweets (I can also overeat creamed spinach, easily). And contrary to popular claims, I see people eat immoderate amounts of steak quite often (protein + fat + salt, maybe), and I bet people exist who will overeat bacon.
I would argue. I can and have eaten sugar directly from the bowl - and not just a little bit. I can and have eaten pounds of fruit in one sitting, too. I have also eaten ten servings of popcorn, or a half gallon of ice cream, or a box of popsicles or a block of cheese with Triscuits or a whole bag of trail mix. I don't think it's as simple as you make it, and sometimes it's just plain compulsion.
But I didn't say it wasn't sugar for ANYONE. But so often people say "I can't moderate sugar" but are (like most of us) people who never would eat sugar plain, who have no issues moderating fruit, and mean by "sugar" specifically things like cookies, brownies, donuts, ice cream, pie, whatever (and not all of those, but certain ones). To say the issue then is SUGAR is what seems to me way too simplistic.
I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with here, as popcorn, which you mention, is also not sugary, and I neither are cheese and Triscuits, many trail mixes (and sugar is hardly the only significant ingredient even if there is some). Is it that it need not be about deliciousness? That it can be compulsive? I don't disagree with that at all.
To elaborate, and I hope we can have a conversation here, I think of course some people have difficulties specifically with compulsive or binge eating (not necessarily the same thing). Sometimes this is habitual, sometimes it is mindless eating (similar), sometimes it is comfort or emotional eating, probably other things too. Me too, I've struggled with some of this. I wrote earlier in the thread about having to cut out snacking or grazing since I've found, despite all my work, that now that my reasons aren't as pressing especially if I start grazing on something I like at all (even if it is not something I'd have a problem moderating as an after dinner dessert item) I will sometimes/often just eat and eat. Not because I love the food itself. Certainly not because its sugary -- it could be nuts. It is compulsive in a way (although I won't do it with something I dislike). But it's about things other than the food itself, I think (and it's specific to me in that I don't think that I have an issue that is cured by not snacking means that others should not snack).2 -
I am a recovered food addict, was overweight, unable to create moderation and tormented by it for 25 years. By approaching it as an addiction problem and creating abstinence of compulsive overeating between planned meals, among other strategies, I lost 140 pounds and have kept it off for 30 years. It has been a blessing being free of that compulsion, now addicted to healthy behaviors. Planning ahead and fasting between meals are behavioral and cognitive behavioral strategies that utilize the way we know our minds work from behavioral science, rather than the way we wished they work. Reprogramming is another way to look at it.1
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I think this is issue is different for different people, but personally, I find I have an issue moderating certain foods. I'm not going to binge eat veggies or fruit for instance.
When I start to have a problem moderating something I cut it out temporarily.
Lately, I've been having trouble moderating sweets (cookies, cake, etc.) so I made myself go 7 days without them. I'm still heavily moderating them (once a week for now) and might completely cut them out for a while again because I've found if I stop eating the thing I'm binging on for a while when I start eating it again I don't feel the compulsion to overeat. I guess it's like losing the taste for it. I'll start eating them again whenever I want when I can eat a serving and not care about eating more.
I tried that too and ended up binging anyway. Sigh.
I've had binges on fruit, lol! Usually ripe plums or peaches, but honestly not since I moved to the US because they're just typically not binge-worthy here.1 -
I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
I wish fruit satisfied my sweet tooth. Yes it is sweet, but it's not bulky or dense enough, or something...
My favourite dessert is chocolate/peanut butter protein powder mixed with unsweetened vanilla almond milk to make a sludge/pudding and topped with plain Greek yogurt. It's filling and satisfying.
Calories - 337
Protein - 61g
Carbs - 16g
Fat - 3g
sugar - 4g2 -
Bing cherries, though.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
I know you really believe this, you say it frequently.lemurcat12 wrote: »I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...
Which suggests that the difficulty in moderating is not specifically sugar.
What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat (cookies, ice cream, and other common treats are wrongly called carbs, as they are half fat too), and carbs/fat/salt (french fries, chips, mashed potato with butter, fried chicken, naan dipped in curry, pizza, burgers, etc. -- obviously some of these have protein too). Even fat/salt is tough for some of us, as I could overeat cheese and olives, and find those harder to moderate than many sweets (I can also overeat creamed spinach, easily). And contrary to popular claims, I see people eat immoderate amounts of steak quite often (protein + fat + salt, maybe), and I bet people exist who will overeat bacon.
I would argue. I can and have eaten sugar directly from the bowl - and not just a little bit. I can and have eaten pounds of fruit in one sitting, too. I have also eaten ten servings of popcorn, or a half gallon of ice cream, or a box of popsicles or a block of cheese with Triscuits or a whole bag of trail mix. I don't think it's as simple as you make it, and sometimes it's just plain compulsion.
But I didn't say it wasn't sugar for ANYONE. But so often people say "I can't moderate sugar" but are (like most of us) people who never would eat sugar plain, who have no issues moderating fruit, and mean by "sugar" specifically things like cookies, brownies, donuts, ice cream, pie, whatever (and not all of those, but certain ones). To say the issue then is SUGAR is what seems to me way too simplistic.
I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with here, as popcorn, which you mention, is also not sugary, and I neither are cheese and Triscuits, many trail mixes (and sugar is hardly the only significant ingredient even if there is some). Is it that it need not be about deliciousness? That it can be compulsive? I don't disagree with that at all.
To elaborate, and I hope we can have a conversation here, I think of course some people have difficulties specifically with compulsive or binge eating (not necessarily the same thing). Sometimes this is habitual, sometimes it is mindless eating (similar), sometimes it is comfort or emotional eating, probably other things too. Me too, I've struggled with some of this. I wrote earlier in the thread about having to cut out snacking or grazing since I've found, despite all my work, that now that my reasons aren't as pressing especially if I start grazing on something I like at all (even if it is not something I'd have a problem moderating as an after dinner dessert item) I will sometimes/often just eat and eat. Not because I love the food itself. Certainly not because its sugary -- it could be nuts. It is compulsive in a way (although I won't do it with something I dislike). But it's about things other than the food itself, I think (and it's specific to me in that I don't think that I have an issue that is cured by not snacking means that others should not snack).
This is what I take issue with:What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat
It makes it seem that if we just don't pick up combination foods that it will somehow stop the behavior, and I'm of the belief that it is behavioral and not necessarily about the food itself. You say this a lot, and I am saying it is any number of foods, including things like popsicles (not a combo food) and Bing cherries (fruit) and Red Vines, AND trail mix, French bread, chocolate. So it is and isn't combination food - I just think that statement is misleading and incorrect.
If I only had a problem with fat/sugar foods, then life would be simpler, but I had to address the list which made me realize it is me, not the food.
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Christine_72 wrote: »I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
I wish fruit satisfied my sweet tooth. Yes it is sweet, but it's not bulky or dense enough, or something...
My favourite dessert is chocolate/peanut butter protein powder mixed with unsweetened vanilla almond milk to make a sludge/pudding and topped with plain Greek yogurt. It's filling and satisfying.
Calories - 337
Protein - 61g
Carbs - 16g
Fat - 3g
sugar - 4g
I always believe that fruits and veggies in their original forms are too simplistic for our tastes. That's why not a lot of people crave them. Plant stuff is just too one dimensional. It's also more work (per reward) to consume fruits -- counter evolution -- than to consume cookies.
My own resolution is to combine many many fruits and veggies into a dish! Blend a bunch of fruits and add in liquor. hehe
On other hand, human's creations such as cookies, ice cream, pizza are far more advanced and hit more taste buds. Much less work. Our own sword can save as well as kill us
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cmriverside wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
I know you really believe this, you say it frequently.lemurcat12 wrote: »I can moderate broccoli, cookies not so much. Even crappy ones. For me it's sugar, eating a little makes we want a lot more. I only eat cookies, ice cream, or other sweets out as a treat. You can't really order seconds or thirds on dessert without looking like a glutton. I keeps lots of fruit at home to satisfy my sweet tooth.
But fruit has sugar in it...
Which suggests that the difficulty in moderating is not specifically sugar.
What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat (cookies, ice cream, and other common treats are wrongly called carbs, as they are half fat too), and carbs/fat/salt (french fries, chips, mashed potato with butter, fried chicken, naan dipped in curry, pizza, burgers, etc. -- obviously some of these have protein too). Even fat/salt is tough for some of us, as I could overeat cheese and olives, and find those harder to moderate than many sweets (I can also overeat creamed spinach, easily). And contrary to popular claims, I see people eat immoderate amounts of steak quite often (protein + fat + salt, maybe), and I bet people exist who will overeat bacon.
I would argue. I can and have eaten sugar directly from the bowl - and not just a little bit. I can and have eaten pounds of fruit in one sitting, too. I have also eaten ten servings of popcorn, or a half gallon of ice cream, or a box of popsicles or a block of cheese with Triscuits or a whole bag of trail mix. I don't think it's as simple as you make it, and sometimes it's just plain compulsion.
But I didn't say it wasn't sugar for ANYONE. But so often people say "I can't moderate sugar" but are (like most of us) people who never would eat sugar plain, who have no issues moderating fruit, and mean by "sugar" specifically things like cookies, brownies, donuts, ice cream, pie, whatever (and not all of those, but certain ones). To say the issue then is SUGAR is what seems to me way too simplistic.
I'm not sure exactly what you are disagreeing with here, as popcorn, which you mention, is also not sugary, and I neither are cheese and Triscuits, many trail mixes (and sugar is hardly the only significant ingredient even if there is some). Is it that it need not be about deliciousness? That it can be compulsive? I don't disagree with that at all.
To elaborate, and I hope we can have a conversation here, I think of course some people have difficulties specifically with compulsive or binge eating (not necessarily the same thing). Sometimes this is habitual, sometimes it is mindless eating (similar), sometimes it is comfort or emotional eating, probably other things too. Me too, I've struggled with some of this. I wrote earlier in the thread about having to cut out snacking or grazing since I've found, despite all my work, that now that my reasons aren't as pressing especially if I start grazing on something I like at all (even if it is not something I'd have a problem moderating as an after dinner dessert item) I will sometimes/often just eat and eat. Not because I love the food itself. Certainly not because its sugary -- it could be nuts. It is compulsive in a way (although I won't do it with something I dislike). But it's about things other than the food itself, I think (and it's specific to me in that I don't think that I have an issue that is cured by not snacking means that others should not snack).
This is what I take issue with:What most people seem to have trouble moderating (because so tasty) is combinations: sugar/fat
It makes it seem that if we just don't pick up combination foods that it will somehow stop the behavior, and I'm of the belief that it is behavioral and not necessarily about the food itself. You say this a lot, and I am saying it is any number of foods, including things like popsicles (not a combo food) and Bing cherries (fruit) and Red Vines, AND trail mix, French bread, chocolate. So it is and isn't combination food - I just think that statement is misleading and incorrect.
If I only had a problem with fat/sugar foods, then life would be simpler, but I had to address the list which made me realize it is me, not the food.
But most of the foods you listed before WERE combinations (fat/sugar was not the only one I listed), and -- significantly -- they are not merely sugary foods, which was the point (it's all just sugar) that I was arguing against. My point was never that people only ever overeat combination foods, but that claiming it's all about sugar is generally inaccurate, which you seem to be agreeing with. (I'd say that sugar tends to be in lots of foods that people find tasty, but that often they are extra tasty due to other ingredients, and often extra tasty foods have no sugar at all.)
Also, although you say you have a problem moderating fruit (and even plain sugar sometimes), and I believe you, so many posts -- including the one that I was riffing on, that ndj had commented on -- say "I have a problem moderating sugary things so eat fruit instead, as that's not a problem." As ndj pointed out, fruit has lots of sugar, an apple has more than a 200 calorie cookie, often. So to boil that down to "the problem is caused by sugar" is IMO inaccurate.
If your point is that it can be things besides combinations, that it can be purely behavioral, I agree with that. (I don't think it's only behavioral for everyone -- I think a lot of people will not overeat, period, in the absence of foods they find hyperpalatable.)
You seem to think that I say one can only have trouble controlling combinations, and I didn't mean to say that, and don't think that (I think BED can attach to any food, emotional eating can too, soda is certainly something that some do not moderate well, I think due to habit, mostly). My point was simpler -- people seem to think the driver with "hyperpalatable foods" is that "sugar" is some unique ingredient in its effect on the brain and the studies about hyperpalatable foods and how we react to them, as well as my anecdotal evidence of what people say they struggle to control is that it overwhelmingly is sugar/fat or carbs/salt/fat or other tasty combinations, and usually not just sugar or fruit (and it also can be savory things or non carby things, like cheese and steak).
I get similarly frustrated with people saying the problem is "carbs" because they want donuts or whatever and ignoring the fact that it's not plain old carrots or (usually) apples or even a plain potato. It's blaming specific aspects of the food and ignoring the taste part. I'm not saying it's not other things -- my whole point with "structure" was in part because I think it's behavioral too.6
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