Heavy lifting for beginners

cqbkaju

PPumpItUp wrote: »

I've seen my share of newbies in the gym with horrible form, not only with core lifts but other lifts as well. It might be okay for light weight but once they feel more confident and increase their weight they hurt themselves and I stop seeing them at the gym.

Agreed. I think that is why a lot of people recommend stuff like StrongLifts5x5 to all beginners, perhaps too readily.
But beginners are expected to start light enough to learn proper technique on an empty bar - not that it guarantees that one will.

Heck, I would wager anyone actually working for a year or two in the gym has pulled or tweaked something at least once, even though they "know better".

I know I have. Only takes a split second or a small lapse in concentration.

That being said, I do not pretend to be a world-class athlete or coach.

PPumpItUp

It happens to us all, 2 years ago I hurt my wrist. I was doing standing overhead press with a lot of weight. I hit failure and tried to bring the weight down to the power-clean position but my muscles gave out once again. Instead of dropping the bar I held onto it.

cqbkaju

PPumpItUp wrote: »

It happens to us all, 2 years ago I hurt my wrist. I was doing standing overhead press with a lot of weight. I hit failure and tried to bring the weight down to the power-clean position but my muscles gave out once again. Instead of dropping the bar I held onto it.

I hope it healed and you are fully recovered.

PPumpItUp

I am fine. It scared me into not doing standing overhead press anymore though.

canadianlbs

PPumpItUp wrote: »

Deads however should be done with as few reps as possible. The more reps you do the more likely you will mess up your form and hurt yourself.

my form on deads actually benefited a lot from adding the boring-but-big format to my regular wendler 5/3/1 workout a few months ago.

i'd done 5x5 and then 3x5 for a year each, and about 8 months of straight 5/3/1 when i did it. none of them gave me enough straight-up practice with doing deadlifts, personally. my form was 'fine' but it never really dug itself in and made itself at home in my bio-feedback network. the 5x10 sets with the much lower weight fixed that for me pretty fast. whole strings of tiny lightbulbs started to turn themselves on in my brain with that mode.

different people learn in different ways, i suppose.

cqbkaju

canadianlbs wrote: »

PPumpItUp wrote: »

Deads however should be done with as few reps as possible. The more reps you do the more likely you will mess up your form and hurt yourself.

my form on deads actually benefited a lot from adding the boring-but-big format to my regular wendler 5/3/1 workout a few months ago.

i'd done 5x5 and then 3x5 for a year each, and about 8 months of straight 5/3/1 when i did it. none of them gave me enough straight-up practice with doing deadlifts, personally. my form was 'fine' but it never really dug itself in and made itself at home in my bio-feedback network. the 5x10 sets with the much lower weight fixed that for me pretty fast. whole strings of tiny lightbulbs started to turn themselves on in my brain with that mode.

different people learn in different ways, i suppose.

That is why Pavel recommends "Greasing the Groove".
Strength training is a skill & skills need practice.

BBB works at such high volume because the weights are not dangerously heavy like the work sets would be - although they feel like tons at the end.

The trick is to balance the volume of work with the weights to optimal results.
I think what he meant is that you don't try sets of 10 at something approaching your maximal strength. You are both on the same page, probably.

With programs similar to SL5x5 I tell people I coach to cut the squats out of the deadlift day so they can get more Deads in.
Squatting twice a week is usually more than enough if you are getting the Deads in with any intensity at all.

That is my opinion, anyway.

Don't like 5x5? Don't think it is as great as they say? Just want an alternative?

Try something like this:

Start with 50%-75% of something around your 5RM

[Workout A]
4x 8-10 Squat
4x 8-10 Bench
4x 8-10 Dumbbell Rows (Thick handled J-Rows preferred)
4x 8-10 Triceps Dips

[Workout B]
4x 6-8 Deadlifts
5x 8-10 Chin-Ups (yes, Chins instead of pull-ups. Chins will get you strong enough for pull-ups)
4x 8-10 OH Press

Add 5lbs to Deadlifts, Squat and Bench. Add 2.5lbs to everything else.
I'm a fan of microloads so the 2.5lbs is easy
2-3min rests between sets

Feel free to take 10 minutes or more between chin-up sets, if you need it.
You can add a rep most days this way until you get up there.
Once you can do a set of 15 or 20 chin-ups every 10 minutes you can probably do sets of 8-10 with about 3 minutes rest.
Keep your back and legs straight. No "kipping". That is not a pull-up or chin-up. Stop lying to yourself.
Go all the way down and keep your shoulder blades squeezed together like you are pinching a tennis ball between them.
Don't try to pull "up" instead try to drive your elbows down and back like a strike.
Come all they way up to at least your collar bone or even better, your pecs.
If you cannot do one chin-up then you are too weak or too fat.
Plenty of programs out there to get you to 1 chin-up in a few weeks.

I like to do 90 second Super-Sets; ex. Squat set, rest 90 seconds, Bench set, rest 90 seconds, then Squat set.
That is a bit over 3 minutes in total. Err on the side of resting too long instead of not resting long enough. It isn't a race.

M-W-F alternate A & B.
Rest Tue, Thu, Sat, & Sun

Do any Cardio you want after you lift or on days you don't lift.
Don't neglect stretching and mobility work after you lift.
Don't get lazy with your warm-ups. The heavier the weight, the more you need to warm up.

Cutting out the Squats from workout B and making sure the Rows are with dumbbells saves your back for some decent Deadlift work.

There are versions of reasonable programs like this all over. Not much unique about it.
I think I got the framework for this from AWorkoutRoutine.com or something.

"Simple but not easy..."
Do something like this for 3-6 months or so and you will probably be ready to move on to whatever sort of specialization or "intermediate" program you want.

Your chin-up width to prevent too much elbow inflammation:
I recommend that you do not use your thumbs. Wrap them around the bar with your fingers, like hooks.
https://youtu.be/EUTlo0daeEI
J-Rows for improved form:
https://youtu.be/EqEOuGFyOgc

GingerPwr

cqbkaju wrote: »

czvanut wrote: »

Day 2 of Strong Lift - Squats, Overhead Press, and Dead Lift. When doing OP before, I was always afraid to go over, like 30lbs. I had to start with the 45 lb bar, and I was surprised at how strong I already am. Only starting in this program, but I like its simplicity and its progression.

How is the routine going? Are you liking your progress?

Loving the progress! I feel stronger and more confident, and I'm excited to get to the gym and add weight each time. I already see better definition in my arms and shoulders.

Today, I'll be squatting 105, OP 60, and dead lifting 140. For me, this is still low weight on the squat, but a PR on the overhead press.

cs2thecox

czvanut wrote: »

cqbkaju wrote: »

czvanut wrote: »

Day 2 of Strong Lift - Squats, Overhead Press, and Dead Lift. When doing OP before, I was always afraid to go over, like 30lbs. I had to start with the 45 lb bar, and I was surprised at how strong I already am. Only starting in this program, but I like its simplicity and its progression.

How is the routine going? Are you liking your progress?

Loving the progress! I feel stronger and more confident, and I'm excited to get to the gym and add weight each time. I already see better definition in my arms and shoulders.

Today, I'll be squatting 105, OP 60, and dead lifting 140. For me, this is still low weight on the squat, but a PR on the overhead press.

Good stuff! Be careful on OP that you're really doing an isolated press, not using your legs to do a push press!

Also, as your weights get heavier, for sure it's worth booking a session with a trainer to check your form etc. They'd also be able to help you through a plateau better than the app will.
Make sure you find one with a strength and conditioning qualification, or maybe even one who's qualified to teach Olympic lifts. I've found they're a ton more useful and constructive than the ones who just have a basic personal training qualification (which doesn't seem to cover anything with a barbell!!).

GingerPwr

@cs2thecox Thanks for the advice!