I've come to conclusion cutting is not the answer for me for skinny fat
dave_in_ni
Posts: 533 Member
This skinny fat dilemma has been a real PITA for me. I seem to be going around in circles getting nowhere only a smaller version of myself with the same composition.
Every 6 months or so I check in here with the same issues. 230lbs to 170lbs, I then went to 160lbs a year later and it made no difference, I've been as low as 138lbs at 6ft which is underweight and still had chest and belly fat. The answer seem to be lift weights, Great! I've been doing that since day 1. I get the theory in cutting when skinny fat but that's assuming there is some lean mass there, mine must be none existent.
So I am wondering what would happen to my composition if I went on a proper lean bulk and actually built some muscle first as I am sick of this cutting and pissing about.
Every 6 months or so I check in here with the same issues. 230lbs to 170lbs, I then went to 160lbs a year later and it made no difference, I've been as low as 138lbs at 6ft which is underweight and still had chest and belly fat. The answer seem to be lift weights, Great! I've been doing that since day 1. I get the theory in cutting when skinny fat but that's assuming there is some lean mass there, mine must be none existent.
So I am wondering what would happen to my composition if I went on a proper lean bulk and actually built some muscle first as I am sick of this cutting and pissing about.
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Replies
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You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....11
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I'm no expert Dave, but going back in your diary you're not hitting your protein goals, and almost always have calories left over. Eating right, and hitting your macros are important for muscle gain. Try that. By the way--love your profile pic.3
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snowflake954 wrote: »I'm no expert Dave, but going back in your diary you're not hitting your protein goals, and almost always have calories left over. Eating right, and hitting your macros are important for muscle gain. Try that. By the way--love your profile pic.
He's been told that forever...4 -
TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.0 -
So, if you have given it a good try in a deficit, with no progress, what's the harm in trying a recomp or clean bulk? What program have you followed? Have you progressed on your lifts at all?3
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TavistockToad wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I'm no expert Dave, but going back in your diary you're not hitting your protein goals, and almost always have calories left over. Eating right, and hitting your macros are important for muscle gain. Try that. By the way--love your profile pic.
He's been told that forever...
Sorry--I didn't know that he's one of those who don't take good advice. Dave--I don't know anything, and I saw that straight off---hm....... Recomp works. I'm a woman, 62 yrs old and I'm doing it for 2 yrs now. It's amazing what the results can be, so...you can either keep running around in circles, or get with the program. Best.7 -
Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?5 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »So, if you have given it a good try in a deficit, with no progress, what's the harm in trying a recomp or clean bulk? What program have you followed? Have you progressed on your lifts at all?
I have done the following
Bigger Leaner Stronger
5X5
Fierce 5
2 different versions of PPL
My lifts involving legs have been pretty decent and still going all be it slowly, Deadlift 1RM 315lbs, Squat 286lbs but upper body is rubbish. BP 132lbs OHP 103lbs0 -
As you've also been told time and again, you're expecting miracles only giving things 12 weeks. So commit to at least 6 months to a year of one program or carry on complaining. The choice is yours.12
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Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
You have a point, I will admit I do have a fear of getting fat again0 -
Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)0 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat/p16 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
You eat at maintenance while lifting, the theory is you burn fat and build muscle at the same time but its a lot slower than cutting and bulking2 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?5 -
You need to stick with your programs mire than 8-12 weeks2
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dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.2 -
How long have you followed those programs? Do you change programs every few weeks?
Recomp is for people who are within a healthy weight range, but have high body fat. If that's you, you need to stick to one lifting program all the way through.
No matter what you do just assume that if you work really hard in the gym lifting it will take you a year to get real visible results and if you screw around it will take you five years to see any changes.5 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
As already raised, you can't even eat at maintenance yet. Start there, and keep lifting while you get there.7 -
How long have you followed those programs? Do you change programs every few weeks?
Recomp is for people who are within a healthy weight range, but have high body fat. If that's you, you need to stick to one lifting program all the way through.
No matter what you do just assume that if you work really hard in the gym lifting it will take you a year to get real visible results and if you screw around it will take you five years to see any changes.
8-12 weeks. I did my first program for 6 months though. Bigger leaner stronger which if you read the reviews on Amazon is supposed to be amazing.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.1 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.
And here we are down the big snake back to square 1. This is why this is so confusing.
I'm 36 now, but when I was 18 I was 138lbs, I did a bit of piddling around lifting but nothing major, I was still skinny fat then, to cut the chest fat I'd need to be around 100lbs which wouldn't be healthy0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.
And here we are down the big snake back to square 1. This is why this is so confusing.
Looking back over your answers here everyone is telling you to recomp. Increase calories to maintenance, increase protein, follow a lifting program for several cycles, keep all that up for 12 months.
You're seeing the circular logic because you're ignoring recomp as an option. Bulking will leave you fat with no muscle, cutting will leave you sick. Recomp is your option. A bulk and cut cycle would take you longer than recomp and would give you less results.5 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.3 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P1 -
Verity1111 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P
No you're fine. Simple question.4 -
Verity1111 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P
Ok?1 -
Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)10 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!3
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