I've come to conclusion cutting is not the answer for me for skinny fat
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dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.1 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.
And here we are down the big snake back to square 1. This is why this is so confusing.
I'm 36 now, but when I was 18 I was 138lbs, I did a bit of piddling around lifting but nothing major, I was still skinny fat then, to cut the chest fat I'd need to be around 100lbs which wouldn't be healthy0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
No. If your body fat is high then nutrient partitioning will be low, meaning you're more likely to put on fat than you are muscle.
And here we are down the big snake back to square 1. This is why this is so confusing.
Looking back over your answers here everyone is telling you to recomp. Increase calories to maintenance, increase protein, follow a lifting program for several cycles, keep all that up for 12 months.
You're seeing the circular logic because you're ignoring recomp as an option. Bulking will leave you fat with no muscle, cutting will leave you sick. Recomp is your option. A bulk and cut cycle would take you longer than recomp and would give you less results.5 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.3 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P1 -
Verity1111 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P
No you're fine. Simple question.4 -
Verity1111 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Verity1111 wrote: »Too high BF to recomp doesn't actually make sense when you are already light weight.
The recommendation to get lean is before bulking.
If you aren't managing to eat your calorie allowance now what will change if you decide to bulk?
Can someone be so sweet as to please tell me what recomp is and/or the dif between bulking and cutting vs recomp? I have a time before I need to do it but it's been bothering me.... even if its in a PM someone lol. I find people explaining to be more comprehensible than Google btw (Im aware I can look it up but it's the internet so it's not always right)
Maybe start your own thread and ask?
OP didnt seem to mind me asking. :P
Ok?1 -
Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)10 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!3 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!
I don't know, any recommendations? I am thinking a 6 day PPL which is a bit of a b*tch as I think it needs a lot of calories to be consistent with or a 3 day full body.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!
I don't know, any recommendations? I am thinking a 6 day PPL which is a bit of a b*tch as I think it needs a lot of calories to be consistent with or a 3 day full body.
My .02 - Lyle McDonald's Generic Bulking Routine. It can be run in a cut, recomp or bulk, is very simple and straightforward, and is a well-designed program with progression and deloads built in.1 -
Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)
Great post thanks. Well cutting can take a run and jump as I am sick of it. Recomp I think it is.0 -
Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)
Lord. I never realized it took that much time to gain muscle! I will definitely be adding more protein now... lol not later.0 -
dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!
I don't know, any recommendations? I am thinking a 6 day PPL which is a bit of a b*tch as I think it needs a lot of calories to be consistent with or a 3 day full body.
There's a thread somewhere about lifting programmes... I think it's a stickie....3 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!
I don't know, any recommendations? I am thinking a 6 day PPL which is a bit of a b*tch as I think it needs a lot of calories to be consistent with or a 3 day full body.
There's a thread somewhere about lifting programmes... I think it's a stickie....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p14 -
TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »dave_in_ni wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »You've been asking the same thing for months now... but refusing to follow the advice of either bulking or recomp while following an actual decent lifting programme....
Recomp is to slow, I am told to cut. To high BF%, I give programs a good 8-12 weeks, if no progress I move on but I am not going to make any progress in a deficit.
No, you're not.
OK so are you saying bulk? Is the answer to this Bulk folks? at least for a while anyway, until I have built some muscle? As they say you can't polish a turd and thats what I am trying to do.
Bulking will result in you gaining more fat, so be okay with that going in if that's the path you choose. Even under optimal conditions, you're looking at about a 1:1 ratio of muscle to fat gain. If you have a higher bodyfat percentage, the partitioning will be geared more toward fat gain and you'll probably gain more fat than muscle. Most advice I've seen is that men should be in the 10-12%BF range to start a bulk, and stop when they reach 15-16%.
Most likely the best answer for you would be to recomp. And have some patience and persistence. Muscle gain doesn't happen fast or easy. As usmcmp said, think in terms of at least a year (under optimal conditions) to see good, visible results.
I will have a look into recomp as cutting isn't doing anything and I also think bulking would be a mistake.
Go for it! What programme are you going to use?
Give it a year to see proper results, good luck!
I don't know, any recommendations? I am thinking a 6 day PPL which is a bit of a b*tch as I think it needs a lot of calories to be consistent with or a 3 day full body.
There's a thread somewhere about lifting programmes... I think it's a stickie....
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p12 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)
Lord. I never realized it took that much time to gain muscle! I will definitely be adding more protein now... lol not later.
Agreed. I think that's why then invented tren.1 -
From what you wrote it looks like you are kind of a light build, with a fear of getting fat. Its hard trending to impossible to build muscle in deficit for some, esp for low bf percentages, and harder for lighter builds to build and rebuild muscle anyways, so you aren't going to go anywhere productive by cutting if your goal is to increase upper body strength and reduce fat. You may never really reduce much upper body fat depending on your body, but increasing muscle will help you, and "stretch out" that adipose cover more proportionally. I'd do a "recomp" only, and not mess with either "bulks" or "cuts" in your case. If you really care about upper body fat and the way it looks more than anything, focus on "bodybuilder" volume of exercises to increase the muscle (fat and skin has to stretch over more volume). Its going to probably take you a long time to make much of a difference without extra calories, but my general advice would be weightlifting exercise volume should be your focus, with high protein at maintaining weight caloric levels and limiting aerobic exercise. Maybe climbing close to vertical dam walls since you're a goat
4 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Let me spell out the three options:
1. Cut. You keep losing weight to get down to a low body fat, which will likely put you near underweight and take you 6ish months. You will have lost even more muscle and will spend at least 12 months working to gain back the lost muscle as well as an additional 5 pounds. Then you cut and lose those 5 pounds of lean mass leaving you back to square one. (total time spent: 2 years)
2. Bulk. You gain 1 pound of muscle per month for 12 months then cut for 6. You end up back at your current weight with around 4-5 pounds of added muscle. (total time spent: 1.5 years)
3. Recomp. You focus on eating adequate protein and really put effort into lifting for the next 12 months. You manage to lose 12 pounds of fat and add 8 pounds of muscle. (total time spent: 1 year)
Lord. I never realized it took that much time to gain muscle! I will definitely be adding more protein now... lol not later.
Don't forget, this is assuming a progressive lifting routine/program.7
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