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Is Over-Training a myth?
Rammer123
Posts: 679 Member
in Debate Club
Just curious on what people's thoughts are on whether or not over-training is a myth or a real thing.
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Replies
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It's a real thing and I have experienced it when I was training beyond my fitness capacity at that particular time.5
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Of course it's a real thing. You can create training stress faster than you can heal it.8
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Real thing4
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Well, decades of experience have taught me it's definitely a real thing in horses, and I don't know why people would be any different.7
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I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
most people don't rest enough.
But it's definitely real- no matter which side of the coin you call it.
That being said- I'd say the bulk of people who claim over training are just tired and don't want to go. It takes a lot of effort to over train. Most people can barely get to the gym on a regular basis.16 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
most people don't rest enough.
But it's definitely real- no matter which side of the coin you call it.
That being said- I'd say the bulk of people who claim over training are just tired and don't want to go. It takes a lot of effort to over train. Most people can barely get to the gym on a regular basis.
Totally agree. I think under-recovering as I like to call it, is usually the issue. I also do believe your CNS will be "over-trained" wayyyy before your muscles will be.6 -
Wouldn't lack off recovery and over train be the same thing?9
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It's real. Rhabdomyolysis is a real thing. Overtraining can also result in tendonitis and bursitis.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Wouldn't lack off recovery and over train be the same thing?
I'd think so, and yes it exists.1 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
Ummm.. essential what over training is defined as: when training loads exceeds their recovery capacity.It takes a lot of effort to over train.
Not necessarily. What level of training one can recover from is entirely based on how fit they are at the time. So an individual whose been a couch potato for over 5 years can easily over train by doing nothing more then walking a mile or two every single day. But a person who repeatedly trains for ironman competitions can easily handle 1-2 hrs of intense exercise with no more then 1 rest day a week.9 -
It's real. You can over train. I've injured and reinjured myself many many times that way until I wised up and realised more is not always better.2
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Of course it's real.
Multi-faceted as well, it's not just soreness, fatigue and declining or poor performance. Can include cardiac issues, injury, suppressed immune system etc. etc.
Not much of a debate!4 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
most people don't rest enough.
But it's definitely real- no matter which side of the coin you call it.
That being said- I'd say the bulk of people who claim over training are just tired and don't want to go. It takes a lot of effort to over train. Most people can barely get to the gym on a regular basis.
Nailed it. Most over-training is under-recovering, especially with strength training. Severe under-recovery mimics all the signs of situational depression, and it's my contention Z(unencumbered by study) that the source is exactly the same - unresolved stress.2 -
Of course it's real. and as stated above, You're likely to overtrain your CNS, recovery, or endocrine system long before you "overtrain a muscle"
And Generally it's about under-recovery vs overtraining. It seems to hit the very inexperienced and those who have a lot of experience(and no coach/trainer) most often.4 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
Ummm.. essential what over training is defined as: when training loads exceeds their recovery capacity.It takes a lot of effort to over train.
Not necessarily. What level of training one can recover from is entirely based on how fit they are at the time. So an individual whose been a couch potato for over 5 years can easily over train by doing nothing more then walking a mile or two every single day. But a person who repeatedly trains for ironman competitions can easily handle 1-2 hrs of intense exercise with no more then 1 rest day a week.
what one can recover from has nothing ot do with how fit they are.
I was a couch potato for years and did a lot more than walking a couple miles when I decided I was done.
I did circuit training for 30 days straight...for 30mins a day...was sore as hell.
Walked 3 miles consistently at least 5x a week as well...
based on your definition I was over training...no I wasn't as i recovered fine due to proper nutrition and sleep.
Over training is doing more than your body can recover from and there is not standard for it...everyone is different.0 -
Anecdotally I can say it's real. I've never overtrained but my bf was training 6 days/week because he was "enhanced" and thought himself invincible and tried to maximize gains. He's taken a break, increased his potassium, cleaned up his diet a bit and only trains every other day and he gets better pumps now then when he was on cycle. He's gaining again too. I *think* there is something to it.2
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I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
Ummm.. essential what over training is defined as: when training loads exceeds their recovery capacity.It takes a lot of effort to over train.
Not necessarily. What level of training one can recover from is entirely based on how fit they are at the time. So an individual whose been a couch potato for over 5 years can easily over train by doing nothing more then walking a mile or two every single day. But a person who repeatedly trains for ironman competitions can easily handle 1-2 hrs of intense exercise with no more then 1 rest day a week.
That's not over training.
That's over doing it because you're out of shape. "too much too fast"
over training has far more pronounced impacts.
I agree that it isn't a fixed point. But someone who gets a membership in January and goes ham for 1 week and cripples themselves isn't over trained.
Over training (the way I see it) is long stretches of doing to much and not capable of getting the rest it needs to keep up. The body is physically capable of doing quiet a bit.
But if you go end on end- month on month- working 2 a days plus a day job- suddenly you've got a bunch of issues- that's over training. But that's the catch. If you are an athlete- and you get paid to train- and that's your job- 2 a days- and NO day job- and 8+ hours of rest (or whatever you need) with proper nutrition- you might be fine.
So to me there IS something to note as a difference. One can over train- get all the rest they need and still not recover- in which case- resting enough won't solve it- you're literally doing too much.
There is a subtle difference- or a different side of the coin. And most people never work hard enough to get to that point. They really just need more rest- and better food and it solves most of their problems.
A completely out of shape person just over doing it- just over did it- that's not over training IMHO.4 -
Lyle McDonald seems to think it's real, which is good enough for me.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/overtraining-overreaching-and-all-the-rest-part-1.html/What is Overtraining?
To get this party started, I want to present a seemingly pedantic as hell, detailed definition of the term overtraining. As you read the article, hopefully you’ll see why I went to so much trouble to define it this way:
Overtraining occurs when there is a long-term imbalance between the training load and recovery processes that, for a given athlete, leads to a decrement in performance that takes more than 2-3 weeks to return to normal.
Ok, that wasn’t so bad was it? And I’d note that I’ve seen even more tedious definitions than this, be glad I managed to get it into this few words.3 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »Lyle McDonald seems to think it's real, which is good enough for me.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/overtraining-overreaching-and-all-the-rest-part-1.html/What is Overtraining?
To get this party started, I want to present a seemingly pedantic as hell, detailed definition of the term overtraining. As you read the article, hopefully you’ll see why I went to so much trouble to define it this way:
Overtraining occurs when there is a long-term imbalance between the training load and recovery processes that, for a given athlete, leads to a decrement in performance that takes more than 2-3 weeks to return to normal.
Ok, that wasn’t so bad was it? And I’d note that I’ve seen even more tedious definitions than this, be glad I managed to get it into this few words.
That looks good. thanks.. and is pretty close to what Rippetoe has in his books2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »
reactivetrainingsystems.com has an application built into the site called TRAC that uses orthostatic measurements and subjective tracking (how sore your various parts are, how tired you feel, your previous day's training load) in order to create a metric for your fatigue and recovery. It gives recommendations on training based on how your metrics run.
I have started following it's recommendations to the T, and have been running 5/3/1 with 3 extra Joker sets after that amraps for five cycles so far and no deloads. Honestly, I feel like something like that would be really beneficial to a lot of people. Most people would say that I am nuts for never deloading; that I'll be overtrained in short order by regularly hitting 1RMs etc. The data trend says otherwise. I feel fantastic, and my strength is climbing even faster than expected.1 -
I mostly go by the Performance Management Chart. I measure my power output (the rate at which I'm doing work) on my bike. I know where my limit is. So the training stress score (TSS) for a particular ride = normalized power / functional threshold power. Take my TSS over the last 45 days and you have my chronic training load (CTL) which is a good proxy for my overall, long-term fitness. Take my TSS over the last 7 days and you have my acute training load (ATL) which is a good proxy for fatigue. Subtract ATL from CTL and you get training stress balance, for freshness. You can look at the graph and see where you are, how much to taper for an event, etc.
Lately I've been playing with Garmin and Firstbeat's approach which does the same thing using HRV. Power is more objective, but I have to do more work getting the data where it needs to be.2 -
Just curious on what people's thoughts are on whether or not over-training is a myth or a real thing.
I've had days where I felt physically great but couldn't do a thing at the gym. A result of the nervous system being over-taxed. I've also had days where I felt beat and run down and had a wonderful workout. A result of the body and mind feeling tired but nervous system well rested.
So for me, the answer to your question would be No, it's not a myth.2 -
I think it's less about "over training" and more about "under resting"
Ummm.. essential what over training is defined as: when training loads exceeds their recovery capacity.It takes a lot of effort to over train.
Not necessarily. What level of training one can recover from is entirely based on how fit they are at the time. So an individual whose been a couch potato for over 5 years can easily over train by doing nothing more then walking a mile or two every single day. But a person who repeatedly trains for ironman competitions can easily handle 1-2 hrs of intense exercise with no more then 1 rest day a week.
That's not over training.
That's over doing it because you're out of shape. "too much too fast"
over training has far more pronounced impacts.
I agree that it isn't a fixed point. But someone who gets a membership in January and goes ham for 1 week and cripples themselves isn't over trained.
Over training (the way I see it) is long stretches of doing to much and not capable of getting the rest it needs to keep up. The body is physically capable of doing quiet a bit.
But if you go end on end- month on month- working 2 a days plus a day job- suddenly you've got a bunch of issues- that's over training. But that's the catch. If you are an athlete- and you get paid to train- and that's your job- 2 a days- and NO day job- and 8+ hours of rest (or whatever you need) with proper nutrition- you might be fine.
So to me there IS something to note as a difference. One can over train- get all the rest they need and still not recover- in which case- resting enough won't solve it- you're literally doing too much.
There is a subtle difference- or a different side of the coin. And most people never work hard enough to get to that point. They really just need more rest- and better food and it solves most of their problems.
A completely out of shape person just over doing it- just over did it- that's not over training IMHO.
I think that's important to emphasize...it's a long term process and doesn't happen overnight or from a week of going too hard, etc...
When I started having over-train issues, I was training for a sprint triathlon...then also decided I wanted to train and race cyclocross at the same time and I was still lifting 3x per week with a heavy program and not really taking much in the way of recovery days in order to fit everything in. I was 39 at the time and by no means am I even remotely an elite athlete..
Over the course of a 3-4 months I developed some pretty substantial tendonitis that ultimately kept me out of the tri as well as the cx season and couldn't do much in the weight room for 4-6 weeks except some rehabby stuff. My performance declined in all disciplines. I was always fatigued and at the same time had difficulty sleeping and I'd wake up every hour or so throughout the night. I also started having a lot of anxiety issues and stress over things that weren't really there...the "what ifs" and "mights". I was also a pretty miserable person to be around for a couple of months there and highly irritable.2 -
Eric Helms also wrote about overreaching vs. overtraining recently, but I can't dig it up right now. But it basically said the same thing Lyle McDonald said.0
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Totally agree. I think under-recovering as I like to call it, is usually the issue. I also do believe your CNS will be "over-trained" wayyyy before your muscles will be.
I agree with this. I also find that if I hit it too hard or come back too quickly I'm likely to cause tendonitis or similar before I over train my actual muscles which can take more of a beating. Even more frustrating as tendons are slow to heal.
That could be an age thing though as I'm 44 now.
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But let's also add that what is over training for one person can be a warm up for the next one... Depends on so many factors and sport exoeriences that it has to be based on individual issues. That's when a good coach or trainer will look at an athlete and say " let's deload a little"....☺️2
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It's real, but harder to hit than people think and gets used as an excuse to stay in your comfort zone.3
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Too much of anything can be bad1
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