WANTED: Opinions on vegetarian/vegan diet

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  • orangegato
    orangegato Posts: 6,572 Member
    My ex is vegan for animal rights reasons. I respect that but I can see that you can eat vegan and still not eat in a healthy way. Her hair is falling out.
  • YvetteK2015
    YvetteK2015 Posts: 654 Member
    orangegato wrote: »
    My ex is vegan for animal rights reasons. I respect that but I can see that you can eat vegan and still not eat in a healthy way. Her hair is falling out.

    Even being a vegan, you still have to hit a minimum calorie goal (which she might not be doing if her hair is falling out) and hit your macros for good health.
  • orangegato
    orangegato Posts: 6,572 Member
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    Documentaries are entertainment. They only show you experts that agree with their idea and they show you dramatic stories that play with your emotions while NOT showing you anything that doesn't 100% agree.

    I actually make it a point NOT to watch documentaries, because I know my emotions are very easily affected by video media (I will actually sometimes cry at product commercials lol) and I don't want to be manipulated into changing my opinion on something.

    I've never seen any unbiased evidence that a vegetarian diet is inherently healthier than an omnivore's, though I do think many people would be healthier if they ate more veggies and fiber and less meat and cheese.
  • YvetteK2015
    YvetteK2015 Posts: 654 Member
    orangegato wrote: »
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....

    When I started on MFP (mind you, i'm not a vegan) I was only concerned about hitting my calorie goal. I never, ever looked at my macros. Now, almost a year later, I realize how important they are. I think I probably never hit my protein goal in the beginning, because I know I have to really work to hit it now. I also have to work to hit my fat goal. I could hit my calorie goal, but still be under in my protein, so I have to work to make sure that doesn't happen.

    I hope your gf can get this straightened out. I wish her the best of luck. She may want to see a registered dietician.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    orangegato wrote: »
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....

    It could be not getting enough lysine. It's an essential amino acid, a type of protein. Vegans who don't eat legumes often don't get enough of it. Someone could be getting enough protein on paper, but still be short in a specific amino acid and this could cause issues. For vegans who eat a well-rounded diet including sources of lysine, it's not something to worry about (I track all my amino acids because I'm a nerd and I've never had a day where I haven't met the need). But it's possible for other vegans to fall short in it. Lysine is needed to metabolize iron and zinc, so not getting enough can lead to additional issues.

  • YvetteK2015
    YvetteK2015 Posts: 654 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Documentaries are entertainment. They only show you experts that agree with their idea and they show you dramatic stories that play with your emotions while NOT showing you anything that doesn't 100% agree.

    I actually make it a point NOT to watch documentaries, because I know my emotions are very easily affected by video media (I will actually sometimes cry at product commercials lol) and I don't want to be manipulated into changing my opinion on something.

    I've never seen any unbiased evidence that a vegetarian diet is inherently healthier than an omnivore's, though I do think many people would be healthier if they ate more veggies and fiber and less meat and cheese.

    The documentaries that I tend to watch the most are on cancer, because I had cancer at one time. I've seen a few where doctors have put patients on specific vegan diets (and I'm not blasting the vegan diet here, I'm blasting the doctors) to "cure" the cancer. I think in at least one of these, the woman didn't want chemo because she was so sure the diet was going to work. The first 2 years she didn't look too bad, but she wasn't getting better. Year 3 she was looking bad, and by year 4 she died. I don't mind doctors recommending an "anti-cancer" diet to help PREVENT certain types of cancers, but once you prescribe one as treatment, it makes me want to scream. There is so much hope in these patients at the beginning, and you just see the hope slowly fade away. It's so sad. I don't know how these doctors get away with it. I don't know how it's not malpractice.
  • dancefit2015
    dancefit2015 Posts: 236 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    orangegato wrote: »
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....

    It could be not getting enough lysine. It's an essential amino acid, a type of protein. Vegans who don't eat legumes often don't get enough of it. Someone could be getting enough protein on paper, but still be short in a specific amino acid and this could cause issues. For vegans who eat a well-rounded diet including sources of lysine, it's not something to worry about (I track all my amino acids because I'm a nerd and I've never had a day where I haven't met the need). But it's possible for other vegans to fall short in it. Lysine is needed to metabolize iron and zinc, so not getting enough can lead to additional issues.
    How do you track your amino acids?
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    orangegato wrote: »
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....

    It could be not getting enough lysine. It's an essential amino acid, a type of protein. Vegans who don't eat legumes often don't get enough of it. Someone could be getting enough protein on paper, but still be short in a specific amino acid and this could cause issues. For vegans who eat a well-rounded diet including sources of lysine, it's not something to worry about (I track all my amino acids because I'm a nerd and I've never had a day where I haven't met the need). But it's possible for other vegans to fall short in it. Lysine is needed to metabolize iron and zinc, so not getting enough can lead to additional issues.
    How do you track your amino acids?

    You can check it on some websites like nutritiondata.self.com for the things you eat. While most meat is complete protein (i.e. has all the essential amino acids), many vegetables are not, making variety important.
  • lgfaciane
    lgfaciane Posts: 97 Member
    Follow jordanshrinks on instagram or watch high carb Hannah on YouTube
  • chokhas
    chokhas Posts: 33 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »

    I've never seen any unbiased evidence that a vegetarian diet is inherently healthier than an omnivore's, though I do think many people would be healthier if they ate more veggies and fiber and less meat and cheese.
    this is what I struggle with too. I think its fine if you want to be vegetarian or vegan but I really doubt the health benefits. we have a lot of vegetarians in the family and they are born vegetarians and do not eat egg. most of them have the same issues like diabetes high blood pressure and cholesterol. just looking at my family example I do not believe that eating vegetarian is the cure. I do agree though that we should eat more fruits and vegetables and not only protein and carb.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    To everyone who has said they don't like these kinds of documentaries, can you please explain? This one it seemed that every statement made either came out of the mouth of a doctor or another highly qualified individual, or from the context of a scientific journal that was written based off of studies. Please don't just say it's wrong because you eat meat everyday and have perfect health... I would never bet my health on a study that involved one person. So what do you think is true about meat and health? Why? What are your sources? Evidence? Give me something real.

    Here is what we know is true from broad population evidence: the "blue zones," where people live longest, include populations that eat meat, dairy, and eggs. This makes it unlikely that these foods -- in and of themselves -- are harmful to people instead of it being some other factor. (There is one "blue zone" in Loma Linda, California that includes many vegetarians and vegans, which means that these foods probably aren't *required* for a long and healthy life either).

    These documentaries tend to cherry-pick facts or make extrapolations that aren't supported by the studies they are citing.

    They hurt veganism when people dig into the claims and find how shallow most of them are. This plants the impression that vegans are deceptive and it also dilutes the message of veganism, which is is about animal exploitation. Many of these documentaries promote additional restrictions on top of veganism (like no oil, no processed food, no sugar, etc), setting people up for failure or potential health problems from over-restriction.

    What is true about meat and health? I don't think we know yet. We know that people (not just one person, but big populations of people) can live long and healthy lives while eating meat. I think it's certainly possible that too much meat could be harmful, but that's very different than what these films claim. From looking at general populations, it seems undeniable that there are healthy diet patterns that can include meat (or, if people prefer, healthy diet patterns that can leave it out -- it works both ways).

    I often love @janejellyroll 's posts - this is a perfect example of why.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    orangegato wrote: »
    her calories were high. Don't think macros were looked at.....

    It could be not getting enough lysine. It's an essential amino acid, a type of protein. Vegans who don't eat legumes often don't get enough of it. Someone could be getting enough protein on paper, but still be short in a specific amino acid and this could cause issues. For vegans who eat a well-rounded diet including sources of lysine, it's not something to worry about (I track all my amino acids because I'm a nerd and I've never had a day where I haven't met the need). But it's possible for other vegans to fall short in it. Lysine is needed to metabolize iron and zinc, so not getting enough can lead to additional issues.
    How do you track your amino acids?

    Cronometer.com will track them for you if you log your food there. It's also a good way to check up on other nutrients that may be of concern for vegans (iodine, vitamin D, vitamin B12, etc).
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    To everyone who has said they don't like these kinds of documentaries, can you please explain? This one it seemed that every statement made either came out of the mouth of a doctor or another highly qualified individual, or from the context of a scientific journal that was written based off of studies. Please don't just say it's wrong because you eat meat everyday and have perfect health... I would never bet my health on a study that involved one person. So what do you think is true about meat and health? Why? What are your sources? Evidence? Give me something real.

    Here is what we know is true from broad population evidence: the "blue zones," where people live longest, include populations that eat meat, dairy, and eggs. This makes it unlikely that these foods -- in and of themselves -- are harmful to people instead of it being some other factor. (There is one "blue zone" in Loma Linda, California that includes many vegetarians and vegans, which means that these foods probably aren't *required* for a long and healthy life either).

    These documentaries tend to cherry-pick facts or make extrapolations that aren't supported by the studies they are citing.

    They hurt veganism when people dig into the claims and find how shallow most of them are. This plants the impression that vegans are deceptive and it also dilutes the message of veganism, which is is about animal exploitation. Many of these documentaries promote additional restrictions on top of veganism (like no oil, no processed food, no sugar, etc), setting people up for failure or potential health problems from over-restriction.

    What is true about meat and health? I don't think we know yet. We know that people (not just one person, but big populations of people) can live long and healthy lives while eating meat. I think it's certainly possible that too much meat could be harmful, but that's very different than what these films claim. From looking at general populations, it seems undeniable that there are healthy diet patterns that can include meat (or, if people prefer, healthy diet patterns that can leave it out -- it works both ways).

    I often love @janejellyroll 's posts - this is a perfect example of why.

    Thank you, it always means a lot to me when people enjoy what I write.
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