Cross Training Advice for Marathon Runner

AllisonMFP117

Does anyone have an app they suggest for cross training days?

Currently in Marathon Training and need to incorporate cross training twice a week.

Any reccomendations on either apps or ideas on what cross training to do?

Btw I am using Zen Labs Marathon Trainer. Just finished week 2 of 20. Registered for 1st marathon February 2018. Currently can complete 10k in an hour so not a novice runner just making bigger goals.

But need help with ideas for cross training.

Alisonswim46

Swimming for sure, you can even do some aqua jogging. Yoga, Pilates. Great low impact options!

TavistockToad

I have a stationary bike for my cross training. Swimming is good too.

spiriteagle99

Walking, biking, swimming, weights, Pilates, OT, aerobic dance, yoga etc. Anything that stresses the muscles differently. I usually hike on my off days, but I'll also bike or do a video.

deannalfisher

Swimming and yoga; I would also add a couple of short weight sessions in

rybo

Strength training is my suggestion.

MobyCarp

Determine what the weak parts of your running chain are. Design a strength training routine to strengthen those parts. There are a lot of standard recommendations, you need a strong core, you need strong calves, etc. But you will have limited time, and you'll get the best value for your time addressing strength issues that are particular to you and not just general strength concerns.

Hint: Any repetitive motion injuries you may have had over time are clues as to what you should work on.

MeanderingMammal

Personally I prefer cycling and bodyweight resistance training.

The cycling helps strength balance in the legs, the latter helps core stability.

Fwiw I've no idea why anyone would flag the suggestion from Rybo as woo.

rybo

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Personally I prefer cycling and bodyweight resistance training.

The cycling helps strength balance in the legs, the latter helps core stability.

Fwiw I've no idea why anyone would flag the suggestion from Rybo as woo.

I'm guessing not everyone realizes what "Woo" means.

lporter229

I do not know anything about your specific plan, but generally speaking, marathon plans that have "cross training" days, intend for that exercise to be cardiovascular, so you should pick something that will elevate your HR similar to running, but will allow your body some rest from the repetitive impact of running. I agree that yoga and strength training are great additions to any marathon plan, but they are usually not the type of cross training intended by the plan. Does your plan include any information on the goal of the cross training?

Dazzler21

AllisonMFP117 wrote: »

Does anyone have an app they suggest for cross training days?

Currently in Marathon Training and need to incorporate cross training twice a week.

Any reccomendations on either apps or ideas on what cross training to do?

Btw I am using Zen Labs Marathon Trainer. Just finished week 2 of 20. Registered for 1st marathon February 2018. Currently can complete 10k in an hour so not a novice runner just making bigger goals.

But need help with ideas for cross training.

I am going with the following weekly plan:

Mon - Slow run
Tuesday - X-Train - Cycle or Swim
Wednesday - Fast 5km
Thursday - X-Train - HIIT followed by Full body Stretches (full body x3 sets each stretch held for 30 seconds)
Friday - Slow Run
Saturday LSR @ Marathon Pace.
Sunday Rest & Core

Just for comparison.

BrianSharpe

+1 on strength training as well as exercises focused on hip / glute / hamstring strength (speed & injury prevention)

https://runnersconnect.net/hips-hamstrings-and-glues-are-the-key-to-running-faster/

Cycling compliments running and swimming is a great way to maintain fitness with zero impact (do both + running and you're a triathlete!) and also great ways to add some variety to your regimen.

cwolfman13

My wife takes a recovery ride on her bike once per week and she lifts once per week to cross train for her 1/2 marathon training.

GiddyupTim

I'm with lporter and MeanderingMammal. Strength training would not be a good idea, unless it is bodyweight training.
The idea of crosstraining when you are training for a marathon is to get some additional exercise in without the repetitive motion and pounding of running.
Something like Pilates might be great because it works your core a bit better than running and avoids the pounding of the road. Good to have a strong core for running. Or yoga or calisthenics.
Serious strength training with weights, however, is going to take it out of you and make your running harder and slower.
Good luck with your training!

spiriteagle99

Does your plan actually call for your long run to be done at marathon pace? Most plans tell you to run your long run slowly, very slowly, especially on a plan that's light on mileage as this one seems to be. Racing your training is a good way to get injured. Some plans have marathon paced miles either the day before or the day after your long run. The plans that include marathon paced miles in the long run don't usually do that for the entire distance, and not for every run - usually only for the last few miles, or mixed into the run between easier miles.

deannalfisher

Dazzler21 wrote: »

AllisonMFP117 wrote: »

Does anyone have an app they suggest for cross training days?

Currently in Marathon Training and need to incorporate cross training twice a week.

Any reccomendations on either apps or ideas on what cross training to do?

Btw I am using Zen Labs Marathon Trainer. Just finished week 2 of 20. Registered for 1st marathon February 2018. Currently can complete 10k in an hour so not a novice runner just making bigger goals.

But need help with ideas for cross training.

I am going with the following weekly plan:

Mon - Slow run
Tuesday - X-Train - Cycle or Swim
Wednesday - Fast 5km
Thursday - X-Train - HIIT followed by Full body Stretches (full body x3 sets each stretch held for 30 seconds)
Friday - Slow Run
Saturday LSR @ Marathon Pace.
Sunday Rest & Core

Just for comparison.

LSR@Marathon Pace

those 2 statements counter each other - your LSR should be 2-3min slower than your anticipated race pace

rybo

GiddyupTim wrote: »

I'm with lporter and MeanderingMammal. Strength training would not be a good idea, unless it is bodyweight training.
The idea of crosstraining when you are training for a marathon is to get some additional exercise in without the repetitive motion and pounding of running.
Something like Pilates might be great because it works your core a bit better than running and avoids the pounding of the road. Good to have a strong core for running. Or yoga or calisthenics.
Serious strength training with weights, however, is going to take it out of you and make your running harder and slower.
Good luck with your training!

Strength training takes on many forms. There is nothing wrong with using actual weights. If done properly it's not going to make you slower, and is going to reduce the chance of injury. It's the program not the tool that determines effectiveness. I'm a fan of all forms of strength training. One is obviously not going to do a high volume hypertrophy program, but to completely dismiss strength training using weights is stuck in old school ideas that lifters don't run and runners don't lift.
Also if you can't build the aerobic capacity and required fitness levels running 5 days week, your running program is horrible. Which this one may very well be, since it calls for LSD @ marathon pace. That's probably one of the first things any program says is keep your LSD slow, slower than marathon pace by 1-2 minutes.

dmkoenig

The right kind of strength training can be very beneficial to a runner. Here's an article that talks about how it can improve your running with some example workout ideas.

https://runnersconnect.net/benefits-of-strength-training-for-runners/

MeanderingMammal

GiddyupTim wrote: »

I'm with lporter and MeanderingMammal. Strength training would not be a good idea, unless it is bodyweight training.

Fwiw the reason I do bodyweight rather than weights is because I find the latter boring as hel. Bodyweight, or suspension trainer, I can build into a run fairly easily.

MeanderingMammal

rybo wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Personally I prefer cycling and bodyweight resistance training.

The cycling helps strength balance in the legs, the latter helps core stability.

Fwiw I've no idea why anyone would flag the suggestion from Rybo as woo.

I'm guessing not everyone realizes what "Woo" means.

Indeed. My first assumption was that it really was an opportunity to flag unscientific bollox, but it seems the powers that be are suggesting that one could use it for either unscientific bollox, or another variant of "like".

Damned if I know.

GiddyupTim

rybo wrote: »

GiddyupTim wrote: »

I'm with lporter and MeanderingMammal. Strength training would not be a good idea, unless it is bodyweight training.
The idea of crosstraining when you are training for a marathon is to get some additional exercise in without the repetitive motion and pounding of running.
Something like Pilates might be great because it works your core a bit better than running and avoids the pounding of the road. Good to have a strong core for running. Or yoga or calisthenics.
Serious strength training with weights, however, is going to take it out of you and make your running harder and slower.
Good luck with your training!

Strength training takes on many forms. There is nothing wrong with using actual weights. If done properly it's not going to make you slower, and is going to reduce the chance of injury. It's the program not the tool that determines effectiveness. I'm a fan of all forms of strength training. One is obviously not going to do a high volume hypertrophy program, but to completely dismiss strength training using weights is stuck in old school ideas that lifters don't run and runners don't lift.
Also if you can't build the aerobic capacity and required fitness levels running 5 days week, your running program is horrible. Which this one may very well be, since it calls for LSD @ marathon pace. That's probably one of the first things any program says is keep your LSD slow, slower than marathon pace by 1-2 minutes.

I am not dismissing any weights whatsoever. But I am a runner and I have some experience with this.
If I deadlift heavy, I do not run well the next day. If I squat heavy, I do not run well the next day.
And, that means there are at least two days out of the week that I am not running well -- the day I lift and the day after. Plus, I need at least one rest day during the week. That leaves me four good running days in the week.
Might be enough. Might not. But, is one day of lifting a week really doing very much for me?
Look at any serious running website (Runners World, Runningcompetitor, etc.) or at Alberto Salazar's strength program. Salazar is a huge advocate of "heavy" strength training for runners. Or, so they say.
No serious weight lifter would consider the exercises (and weights) they advocate to be real weight training. They use dumbbells, usually less than 15 pounds, and do lunges, for example. They do air squats.....
Go look at them. Google: 'Strength training for runners.' I am pretty sure that what you will find is not much more rigorous than pistol squats and crunches. (Or, look at the link to runnersconnection that dmkoening posted above. It recommends body weight, or a program with weights where you do one set of exercises, things like single-leg squats. That's hardly weight training.)
There is a reason they do not.
If a runner wants to weight train, they should. But not during marathon prep.