Calories in calories out is it that simple?
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annaskiski wrote: »People have died from drinking too much water....
I've heard of people getting orange skin from eating too many carrots.
I know someone in real life where this happened due to what he was eating-it was bizarre!1 -
Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.janejellyroll wrote: »
It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".janejellyroll wrote: »"Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.
Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.1 -
Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.janejellyroll wrote: »
It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".janejellyroll wrote: »"Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.
Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.
Because the concept of a "healthy food" is less useful than the concept of a "healthy diet." If we're thinking of the same post, that was the critique that was being made.
Healthy eating is subjective. Humans can thrive on a wide variety of diets. If someone asks for tips on how to improve their diet, I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to engage and offer tips based on their own experience. For someone who hasn't asked for that advice, it can be confusing to have people offering a bunch of (often contradictory) information. A hyperfocus on foods isn't that helpful to new dieters. A focus on the overall context of the diet and meeting nutritional needs is usually a good thing though.5 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »JeromeBarry1 wrote: »I'm still trying to understand what "eat unhealthy" is.
An abundance of low nutrient dense foods.
Good thing we were saying the same thing all along...0 -
If healthy eating were subjective, there would be no nutritional science. It seems weird to me that in a forum where people are usually focused on science, we would shy away from it and retreat into relativism. Yes, there's a variety of good diets. There's also a variety of bad diets. There's a pretty strong scientific consensus on the basics of what makes for a healthy diet, though. And, except for some jokes about cider vinegar and Snickers, I didn't see any hyperfocusing on particular foods - all I really saw was basics.janejellyroll wrote: »
Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.janejellyroll wrote: »
It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".janejellyroll wrote: »"Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.
Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.
Because the concept of a "healthy food" is less useful than the concept of a "healthy diet." If we're thinking of the same post, that was the critique that was being made.
Healthy eating is subjective. Humans can thrive on a wide variety of diets. If someone asks for tips on how to improve their diet, I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to engage and offer tips based on their own experience. For someone who hasn't asked for that advice, it can be confusing to have people offering a bunch of (often contradictory) information. A hyperfocus on foods isn't that helpful to new dieters. A focus on the overall context of the diet and meeting nutritional needs is usually a good thing though.3 -
Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.janejellyroll wrote: »
It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".janejellyroll wrote: »"Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.
Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.
This is the post that talked about healthy eating being subjective:janejellyroll wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »
Conversely, I've noticed that when people encourage healthy eating, other members often assume that means a strict "clean" diet - whatever "clean" means.Rebecca0224 wrote: »[I think people assume that if people don't eat "clean" they must be eating like a 5 year old in a candy store. It aggravates me when people act as if everyone is either eating lean meat and vegetables or donuts, candy, and chips.
When I read "whatever," I see it as very open-ended. It could mean anything to anyone who posts it or reads it. It includes healthy diets, average diets, and very unhealthy diets. It's not a safe assumption that it means a healthy diet, though.
I've actually not seen anyone dispute the advice that a person should try to eat a "healthy diet", is that what you're saying?
I will say, that "healthy eating" is a subjective term as well. Advocates for LCHF, Ketogenic diets, and even Carnivore diets - feel their diet is "healthy" yet many eat limited (or even no) fruits and vegetables. Freelee the Banana girl feels her diet is "healthy" and eats almost the complete opposite. I eat things like frozen meals, fast food, and even (gasp) Hamburger Helper on occasion, and I believe my diet is healthy, yet many would suggest that eating convenience foods automatically means that I disregard nutrition.
"Healthy eating" is incredibly subjective, even professionals and experts can't come up with a definition accepted by all. That why I feel elaborating on it isn't necessarily helpful for people who are just getting started.
Some people do start their weight loss with a diet that *they personally* consider unhealthy. Some of those people may want, as part of their weight loss, to address the components of their diet that they don't consider healthful. They may want, for example, to eat more vegetables or reduce sodium or get more fiber or whatever fits in their definition of health. I am not going to second guess that (although I'm always happy to debate nutrition in other concepts).
Other people start their weight loss with a diet that they consider to be healthy (with the exception of consuming too much energy overall). I was in this group. I was happy with what I ate, I just needed to eat less of it. The only thing I needed to understand was that it was okay if I sometimes had potato chips or Skittles while I was losing weight -- it wasn't going to stop my progress for the day/week/month. The last thing I needed to hear was messages about how to eat more healthfully during my weight loss -- that was the mess that I was trying to escape from previous weight loss attempts.
I personally think it's very condescending for us to assume, automatically, that anyone asking OP's question (or a variant of it) is asking if they can survive on Red Bulls, Oreos, and Slim Jims. If someone asks about how they can tweak their diet to make it more healthful, I'm happy to try to help. But I am not going to assume that they need to hear that from me and I'm certainly not going to assume that what "healthy diet" means to me is what it means to someone else.
To read that as being anti nutrition (especially given janejellyroll's first post in this thread) takes a lot of work to misconstrue it and to assume the most uncharitable things.
I wonder why you would do that.
It's like you prefer thinking that people are saying things we are not, vs. having an honest conversation with us and identifying what your actual disagreements (if any) are.
No one told OP not to be concerned with nutrition.7 -
If healthy eating were subjective, there would be no nutritional science. It seems weird to me that in a forum where people are usually focused on science, we would shy away from it and retreat into relativism. Yes, there's a variety of good diets. There's also a variety of bad diets. There's a pretty strong scientific consensus on the basics of what makes for a healthy diet, though. And, except for some jokes about cider vinegar and Snickers, I didn't see any hyperfocusing on particular foods - all I really saw was basics.janejellyroll wrote: »
Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.janejellyroll wrote: »
It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".janejellyroll wrote: »"Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.
Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.
Because the concept of a "healthy food" is less useful than the concept of a "healthy diet." If we're thinking of the same post, that was the critique that was being made.
Healthy eating is subjective. Humans can thrive on a wide variety of diets. If someone asks for tips on how to improve their diet, I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to engage and offer tips based on their own experience. For someone who hasn't asked for that advice, it can be confusing to have people offering a bunch of (often contradictory) information. A hyperfocus on foods isn't that helpful to new dieters. A focus on the overall context of the diet and meeting nutritional needs is usually a good thing though.
Yes, there are a variety of good and bad diets.
And there are people who say they are concerned with eating healthy who mean a huge range of things (even sometimes things that would be unhealthy for you or that may seem unhealthy under the current weight of the evidence, although they have their reasons -- wrong or not -- for disagreeing). There are also still genuine debates among experts.
So if someone says they eat a healthy diet, we know what that would mean to us and may think we know what it should mean, but we don't necessarily know what they mean by it. Thus, it's subjective.
I think it's a fine term to use, nonetheless, but it is subjective.3 -
andrejjorje wrote: »That is actual not true. More than suggested micro nutrients can do harm and not all the excess is eliminated. Though our body is very clever and complex there are situations when it can accept more than needed.
Read below:
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/nutrition-vitamins-11/fat-water-nutrient?page=
This article is about supplements, not food. While you can certainly over-consume micronutrients in the form of supplements, there's little if any danger of getting harmful levels of micronutrients from foods, except possibly by juicing. And even then you'd have to drink an awful lot of juice regularly.
Coming back to celery etc.... an amount of celery that would fill your micronutrient needs (1 to 10 kg depending how many you want to fill) for the ones it contains would also give you between 4 and 40 times the vitamin K RDA.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »andrejjorje wrote: »That is actual not true. More than suggested micro nutrients can do harm and not all the excess is eliminated. Though our body is very clever and complex there are situations when it can accept more than needed.
Read below:
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/nutrition-vitamins-11/fat-water-nutrient?page=
This article is about supplements, not food. While you can certainly over-consume micronutrients in the form of supplements, there's little if any danger of getting harmful levels of micronutrients from foods, except possibly by juicing. And even then you'd have to drink an awful lot of juice regularly.
Coming back to celery etc.... an amount of celery that would fill your micronutrient needs (1 to 10 kg depending how many you want to fill) for the ones it contains would also give you between 4 and 40 times the vitamin K RDA.
Hello DVT1 -
According to the AMA and other authoritative bodies within the United States, a "balanced diet" is not really all that subjective, and looks something like this:
However, I think you will find many people among the fad diet crowd who would not find this to be healthy at all. Such a diet would fill them with paranoia. Bread, cheese, rice, pasta, butter (on my!) or nearly any other individual food on the above graphic representing a balanced diet has to the potential to cause several dieting cults or "clean" eating psychos to lose their cookies. Why? Because most of these individual sects operate largely outside the realm of medical science and nutrition and rely instead on semantics and pop culture to forward their ideas.
Regardless of this, I know one universal way to improve health and decrease risk for a wide assortment of health related conditions and diseases, and that is to decrease your BMI. In this context your diet of choice is largely irrelevant. Be it clean, balanced or otherwise. the biological mechanism to achieve weight loss is identical.
6 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I'd love to see an example of someone with a vitamin overdose due to diet, without supplementation.
And I'm pretty sure that's what stealthq was getting at as well that having too many vitamins can cause health issues.
I agree that with supplementation that is very possible, but eating a lot of fruits and veggies everyday is not going to cause this.
Vitamin A poisoning is very possible in people who eat liver or other animal products such as milk to excess. This is preformed Vitamin A.
Plant based Vitamin A or Carotenoids will not lead to Vitamin A poisoning but with prolonged over exposure will lead to a condition of the skin turning yellow/orange and increased lung cancer rates in people who also smoke with this over exposure or have contact with asbestos. This amount is believed to be 30 milligrams. Which is the equivalent of eating 8 or so raw carrots every single day for several years.
I've had orange palms for years. Reducing carotenoid containing fruit and vegetables didnt help to reduce it. From blood test results, I have ridiculously high beta carotene, but normal vit a. I would like to get rid of the orange though!3 -
Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.3
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suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.0 -
suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.
Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.2 -
suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.
Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.
So did the McDonalds guy2 -
suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.
Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.
Too much salt - affects your blood pressure
Too much sugar - contributes to diabetes
Green leafy vegetables - needed for iron
Citrus fruits - contribute to Vitamin C requirements
Adequate water - cleanse the body of toxins
Many more I could mention but don't have the time now.6 -
suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.
Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.
Too much salt - affects your blood pressure
Too much sugar - contributes to diabetes
Green leafy vegetables - needed for iron
Citrus fruits - contribute to Vitamin C requirements
Adequate water - cleanse the body of toxins
Many more I could mention but don't have the time now.
1. It may, but calories have a bigger impact. Hypertension is decreased with weight loss.
2. Obesity, inactivity and genetics are causes for diabetes, not sugar. Again, losing weight decreases the chance to get diabetes
3. You dont need greens, red meat and grains can have iron
4. Again a variety if sources have these nutrients, even fast food
5. Our bodies dont build toxins. The liver and intestines address this.10 -
suenewberry81 wrote: »Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?
Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.
Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.
Too much salt - affects your blood pressure
Too much sugar - contributes to diabetes
Green leafy vegetables - needed for iron
Citrus fruits - contribute to Vitamin C requirements
Adequate water - cleanse the body of toxins
Many more I could mention but don't have the time now.
Only if you have blood pressure problems to begin with
Completely false
Other things have iron too
Vitamin C is probably the nutrient with the least cases of people being deficient in, it's found in such high amounts in so many things
Absolute bovine manure4 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.
You know what your neighbors eat for every meal?4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Oh, I forgot you said that earlier. Sorry about that. Fuhrman's plan is naturally very low fat, I believe. It's one reason that I couldn't stay on it personally, I felt burnt-out and hungry all the time because I just feel better on a higher fat diet.OliveGirl128 wrote: »I've been following Dr. Fuhrman's plan and added oils, including olive oil, are a 'no no', but I'm reevaluating my diet right now and may be getting away from his ETL protocol and instead just focus on a plant based diet without all the rules.
Yeah, I was looking at some recipes on his site just now -- trying to get all the fat you need from nuts and seeds, while eating a mostly-vegan diet -- would not work for me.
(as a side note: the minute I saw his post to the parents of a child with Type ONE diabetes telling them to bring her to him and they could cure her T1 with diet? Huge red flags about his methods for me. T1 is NOT T2.)4
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