Calories in calories out is it that simple?

Options
1…79111213

Replies

  • Clancy1282
    Clancy1282 Posts: 1 Member
    Options
    beatyfamily1 wrote: »
    I'm going to a little against the grain here. For me, it was a yes and no answer. Yes, you still need to be within your calories, however, there are other factors that can stall weight loss. I did very well losing a lot of weight by simply staying within my calories. It was when I got closer to a healthy weight range when staying within my calories was no longer as simple as it seemed to be. My weight would not budge anymore and stayed that way for several months. It fluctuated a little bit, but I could not get past this plateau even with everything that I tried. I was still within my calories and my weight would not budge. Then I tried changing the way I eat. I use to eat 3 meals a day, smaller in the morning and bigger at dinner time (dinner time is about 3:30 PM for me) because that's what helped me feel satisfied. Now I eat 4 meals a day close to equal proportions. I'm not diabetic, but I found out by eating several small meals a day it can manage blood sugar and insulin spikes, which can affect fat storage. After changing how often I ate, the weight began to fall off again. I was even able to lose weight during my time of the month, which is a huge deal because before, I could easily gain 5 pounds during that time. So yes, you still need to be within your calories, but if you stall, there could be something else that is affecting your weight loss.

    YES!! Finally....
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable! I have a family right next door to me who eats like this, and if they came on here asking "can i eat anything and still lose weight" they would 100% mean, can i eat the crap foods that made me super obese and still lose weight. Some people give no *kitten* about nutrition whatsoever.

    And this comes across in many of the comments you make. Simply put, this is not the case for most people. Most people understand the question is not an absolute.

    To the OP (if you are still around) in the food and nutrition forum there is a thread on the "dirty" eaters. Have a read and see what a reasonable approach to dieting can look like.

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10498878/looking-for-friends-who-dont-eat-clean-and-healthy/p1
  • annaskiski
    annaskiski Posts: 1,212 Member
    edited July 2017
    Options
    Just wanted to bump another excellent thread in which a skeptical person tried a 'junk food' diet just as an experiment. (remember, he doesn't recommend this for health)

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p1
  • annaskiski
    annaskiski Posts: 1,212 Member
    Options
    @supaflyrobby1 I would like to underline what you said in your post, and which is echo'd in all these 'junk food' experiments:

    Losing weight made a bigger positive impact to all health markers to the experimenter than any negatives from eating junk.
    Note: no one is saying you should eat this way. I'm just emphasizing that losing weight does more for your health than anything else. Of course everyone should eat a sensible diet....
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    dfwesq wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    "Eat literally anything" and ignore your nutritional needs hasn't been said in this thread (unless I missed it).
    It was a grammatical phrase of "Eating whatever even unhealthy".

    Also, imo, "literally anything" includes anything, where nutritious or not.

    Yes, that is what OP asked. And the first non-joke answer was "Yes, that will work for weight loss, but overall nutrition is important for health." Nobody has come in to contradict that and say that nutrition isn't important for health and that OP should ignore it.
    Earlier in this discussion I saw someone in a very general way advocating eating healthy foods, and a number of other people critiquing him. The gist of the critiques was that healthy eating is all subjective, and trying to explain it just confuses people.

    Because the concept of a "healthy food" is less useful than the concept of a "healthy diet." If we're thinking of the same post, that was the critique that was being made.

    Healthy eating is subjective. Humans can thrive on a wide variety of diets. If someone asks for tips on how to improve their diet, I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to engage and offer tips based on their own experience. For someone who hasn't asked for that advice, it can be confusing to have people offering a bunch of (often contradictory) information. A hyperfocus on foods isn't that helpful to new dieters. A focus on the overall context of the diet and meeting nutritional needs is usually a good thing though.
    If healthy eating were subjective, there would be no nutritional science. It seems weird to me that in a forum where people are usually focused on science, we would shy away from it and retreat into relativism. Yes, there's a variety of good diets. There's also a variety of bad diets. There's a pretty strong scientific consensus on the basics of what makes for a healthy diet, though. And, except for some jokes about cider vinegar and Snickers, I didn't see any hyperfocusing on particular foods - all I really saw was basics.

    It's not relativism to say that I can describe my healthy diet and you can describe yours and they could look very different. That is not the same thing as saying all diets are healthy or there is no such thing as a healthy diet.

    The hyperfocus on foods I was referring to was the talk about "nutrient dense" foods.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    TonyB0588 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    TonyB0588 wrote: »
    suenewberry81 wrote: »
    Eating whatever even unhealthy staying within calories should you still lose weight?

    Yes. You may lose out on a few other health benefits though.

    Like? While it's a N=1, the twinkie guy did improve every metabolic marker that was tested. Weight management, exercise and genetics are much bigger factors than the foods that you eat.

    Too much salt - affects your blood pressure
    Too much sugar - contributes to diabetes
    Green leafy vegetables - needed for iron
    Citrus fruits - contribute to Vitamin C requirements
    Adequate water - cleanse the body of toxins

    Many more I could mention but don't have the time now.

    You can get iron from all sorts of foods and you can be hydrated no matter what you're eating.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    savithny wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    OliveGirl128 wrote: »
    I've been following Dr. Fuhrman's plan and added oils, including olive oil, are a 'no no', but I'm reevaluating my diet right now and may be getting away from his ETL protocol and instead just focus on a plant based diet without all the rules.
    Oh, I forgot you said that earlier. Sorry about that. Fuhrman's plan is naturally very low fat, I believe. It's one reason that I couldn't stay on it personally, I felt burnt-out and hungry all the time because I just feel better on a higher fat diet.

    Yeah, I was looking at some recipes on his site just now -- trying to get all the fat you need from nuts and seeds, while eating a mostly-vegan diet -- would not work for me.

    (as a side note: the minute I saw his post to the parents of a child with Type ONE diabetes telling them to bring her to him and they could cure her T1 with diet? Huge red flags about his methods for me. T1 is NOT T2.)

    Yeah, his health claims are seriously creepy. I can't remember the exact name, but one of his books had a soup recipe that implied it would cure cancer.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited July 2017
    Options
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable!

    I do not currently know anyone like this, no. I am aware that people who eat few vegetables and fruits exist, of course, but in my social circle eating well seems to be normal. I am here talking about friends and family who I discuss food stuff with and co-workers who I eat with somewhat regularly and also sometimes discuss food stuff with, as well as general conversations and nutrition and food with acquaintances.

    I also don't really think it's my business how others eat, and am not sure how I would know how the family next to me eats if they don't discuss it.

    I could not judge from what I see people buying at the supermarket, since who knows. Where I live I think people go frequently and buy a few things at once. Someone who saw me at the Jewel on the wrong day might think I only buy diet soda and canned and frozen stuff, since during the summer I get all produce from other sources (my CSA, the green market) and always I get my meat and eggs and some dairy from farms.

    I also live near a baseball park and many hang out in this neighborhood or party on game days, so on some days if I assumed what my neighbors bought from the carts at the grocery store I'd assume they were just all alcoholics since they are buying only booze.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable!

    I do not currently know anyone like this, no. I am aware that people who eat few vegetables and fruits exist, of course, but in my social circle eating well seems to be normal. I am here talking about friends and family who I discuss food stuff with and co-workers who I eat with somewhat regularly and also sometimes discuss food stuff with, as well as general conversations and nutrition and food with acquaintances.

    I also don't really think it's my business how others eat, and am not sure how I would know how the family next to me eats if they don't discuss it.

    I could not judge from what I see people buying at the supermarket, since who knows. Where I live I think people go frequently and buy a few things at once. Someone who saw me at the Jewel on the wrong day might think I only buy diet soda and canned and frozen stuff, since during the summer I get all produce from other sources (my CSA, the green market) and always I get my meat and eggs and some dairy from farms.

    I also live near a baseball park and many hang out in this neighborhood or party on game days, so on some days if I assumed what my neighbors bought from the carts at the grocery store I'd assume they were just all alcoholics since they are buying only booze.

    I'm a frequent shopper and I shop a few different places (based on the selection). You really can't tell anything by looking at someone's shopping cart. I sometimes look at my purchases and try to imagine what people must think of me, but the truth is that it looks really different depending on where I'm shopping, whether it's a major trip, or what my plans are for the week.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    Options
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    I've posted links time and again and pasted ingredients list of many convenience foods and ready meals. All of them pretty nutrient dense.

    This painful over-emphasis on eating "healthy" is why there are people on my friends list beating themselves up about eating "a lot" of chocolate or "bingeing" but then go on to say they're still in their calories. Or beating themselves up about going for pizza and that they'll be "back on track with healthy food Monday". It's horrible. What kind of way is that to live life. Constantly feeling like you're failing because you didn't eat steamed chicken with a kale salad? It's BS.

    Even that pie chart has, gasp, chips and chocolate on it. Because what's important is wide and varied. Just because it comes from a delivery guy or hot in a container doesn't mean it's automatically terrible. People need to stop moralising about others dietary choices.

    I ate take away and ready meals a lot when I was obese. I eat a lot of them now. I have health conditions that impede my ability to buy and make food for myself, though I am actually a pretty good cook. I am not malnourished in any way.

    There are very few people literally never eating a vegetable or fruit and claiming to know the entirety of a neighbours eating habits is ridiculously judgemental.

    Bingeing and caloires have no correlation.

    You could binge on spinach and only get 300 calories worth but it's a massive amount of spinach. It's the inability to stop, its the losing control part that is a problem. Whether you are eating 3,000 calories or 300 is irrelevant, the disordered eating is based off the mental aspect not the physical.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    edited July 2017
    Options
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    I've posted links time and again and pasted ingredients list of many convenience foods and ready meals. All of them pretty nutrient dense.

    This painful over-emphasis on eating "healthy" is why there are people on my friends list beating themselves up about eating "a lot" of chocolate or "bingeing" but then go on to say they're still in their calories. Or beating themselves up about going for pizza and that they'll be "back on track with healthy food Monday". It's horrible. What kind of way is that to live life. Constantly feeling like you're failing because you didn't eat steamed chicken with a kale salad? It's BS.

    Even that pie chart has, gasp, chips and chocolate on it. Because what's important is wide and varied. Just because it comes from a delivery guy or hot in a container doesn't mean it's automatically terrible. People need to stop moralising about others dietary choices.

    I ate take away and ready meals a lot when I was obese. I eat a lot of them now. I have health conditions that impede my ability to buy and make food for myself, though I am actually a pretty good cook. I am not malnourished in any way.

    There are very few people literally never eating a vegetable or fruit and claiming to know the entirety of a neighbours eating habits is ridiculously judgemental.

    Bingeing and caloires have no correlation.

    You could binge on spinach and only get 300 calories worth but it's a massive amount of spinach. It's the inability to stop, its the losing control part that is a problem. Whether you are eating 3,000 calories or 300 is irrelevant, the disordered eating is based off the mental aspect not the physical.

    It was in inverted commas because it wasn't a binge. I know what bingeing is, I have done it myself, and still do on occasion and absolutely within my calories. Though I'm not sure I've ever met someone who binges on spinach.......

    Edit to add: Further to my point, it's this use of language like binge as a way of self punishment, just like this same person is constantly on at themselves for not eating healthy. They post a lot, they post what they've eaten a lot. There's not a single thing wrong with diet overall, their relationship with their diet is wrong.
  • JustRobby1
    JustRobby1 Posts: 674 Member
    edited July 2017
    Options
    I eat "connivence" foods every single day. As a single guy who works 50+ hours a week, I do not often have the time or motivation to cook. I do like to cook under normal circumstances, but cooking for just one person is just not a great deal of fun. I tend to buy Smart Ones, Stouffer's Fit Kitchen (my favs), EVOL, Healthy Choice etc. to fill up my freezer. Some of these are really friggin good, and all make portion and calorie control a breeze.

    The only drawback is on many of these the calorie counts are quite low, and not enough to keep me in my sweet spot if I am busy at the office and do not have much for lunch. In these situations I also keep some higher calorie "normal" frozen dinners on hand from makers like Hungry Man, Stouffer's, Boston Market (these friggin rock) PF Chang's etc. The only real drawback I can find from using these various dinners is the high sodium counts, but since I personally do not care about or track sodium, they work for me nicely.

    At the end of the day it's a personal choice, and nobody has any type of elevated status from the food they buy or consume.
  • JeromeBarry1
    JeromeBarry1 Posts: 10,182 Member
    Options
    I certainly do hope the OP comes back and reads all these responses. It's been a very good discussion. Regarding the issue of Dr. Fuhrman's ANDI food scores (and speaking of ANDI, I now realize why my new socks' name looked strangely familiar. I got them at Wal-Mart) his page https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/95/andi-food-scores-rating-the-nutrient-density-of-foods has proven quite useful to me in simply deciding which vegetables to include in my rotating variety in my frequent stir-fry. I confidently choose from among the top 10 items and don't bother with the single-digit items on the list. I don't subscribe to anything else he does.
  • JustRobby1
    JustRobby1 Posts: 674 Member
    Options
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Surely everyone knows at least one person who lives on take away/ready meals/junk food and absolutely refuses to eat a single solitary fruit or vegetable!

    I do not currently know anyone like this, no. I am aware that people who eat few vegetables and fruits exist, of course, but in my social circle eating well seems to be normal. I am here talking about friends and family who I discuss food stuff with and co-workers who I eat with somewhat regularly and also sometimes discuss food stuff with, as well as general conversations and nutrition and food with acquaintances.

    I also don't really think it's my business how others eat, and am not sure how I would know how the family next to me eats if they don't discuss it.

    I could not judge from what I see people buying at the supermarket, since who knows. Where I live I think people go frequently and buy a few things at once. Someone who saw me at the Jewel on the wrong day might think I only buy diet soda and canned and frozen stuff, since during the summer I get all produce from other sources (my CSA, the green market) and always I get my meat and eggs and some dairy from farms.

    I also live near a baseball park and many hang out in this neighborhood or party on game days, so on some days if I assumed what my neighbors bought from the carts at the grocery store I'd assume they were just all alcoholics since they are buying only booze.

    I'm a frequent shopper and I shop a few different places (based on the selection). You really can't tell anything by looking at someone's shopping cart. I sometimes look at my purchases and try to imagine what people must think of me, but the truth is that it looks really different depending on where I'm shopping, whether it's a major trip, or what my plans are for the week.

    This. ^^ I get most of my fresh produce at the farmer's market during the summer, so rarely get those when I go shopping.

    Yesterday at the grocery store, the woman behind me was glaring disdainfully at what I was purchasing. Diet soda, store-made white bread, bacon, butter, chips, ice cream, ground beef, cat food (lol), a bag of sugar and coffee cream, amongst other staples. She gave me a look that would kill at 20 paces. I laughed to myself as I noted that in her cart was kale, a quinoa salad, gluten-free bread, organic spinach and a tub of protein powder.

    Just to totally piss her off, I tossed in a Snickers bar for good measure. o:)

    This resonated with me. I must admit that I often get a great deal of satisfaction out of pissing off pretentious people of all stripes, be it about food or otherwise. Fortunately there is no shortage here in Chicago of people who suck, so it could almost be considered a hobby of sorts. There is nothing like walking into a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's with a fully loaded Portillo's jumbo hot dog in hand munching as you walk down the isles and getting the looks of outraged indignation from the D-bags. It always brings a smile to my face. Just had to throw that in there :smile:

Categories