Losing fat and gaining muscle is possible...
giburns5388
Posts: 23 Member
For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
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Replies
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Ok1
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Who said it wasn't?2
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Its mentioned everytime it is brought up it this forum.0
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giburns5388 wrote: »Its mentioned everytime it is brought up it this forum.
Newbie gains are mentioned an awful lot...5 -
trigden1991 wrote: »1) Lift weights and use a proper progressive programme
2) You are unlikely to gain muscle and lose fat. Pick a goal.
From the second post on this thread.
Look at the girls pics sge posted. Its is the furtgest thibg grom unlikely that she would be able to obtain ger goals. Why bother discouragibg her.0 -
You mean like recomp? Of course that is possible. Or do you mean in a deficit? I mean, it can be possible for newbs to lose weight and gain some muscle who are more significantly overweight.. but it's about expectations some people have... will someone be gaining significant size this way? No. For example..if an overweight female comes in with very poor glute development and expects it to transform into a bubble eating in a deficit... well...1
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I actually wouldn't recommend recomp at this point to that particular person you are referring to.. mostly because she will get discouraged with the slow results. Can it be possible? Maybe.. but honestly I would say that is less than optimal given her stats and bodyfat % and it could take a really long time.
It is not about being discouraging.. it is about giving people the right path to get where they need to go. And Trigden is right, people want everything all at once "I want to be huge with abs!" or "I want a small waist and huge glutes!" well.. unfortunately it doesn't happen that way... pick one goal... abs or glutes and go from there.4 -
Stop talking about a recomp to new people. You may be at a stage where thats the only way. But for bew people its not the only way to lose fat and gain muscle.2
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giburns5388 wrote: »Stop talking about a recomp to new people. You may be at a stage where thats the only way. But for bew people its not the only way to lose fat and gain muscle.
So what is another way?
Like I mentioned, while newb gains are a thing... they are not very significant to make transforming physique changes. It is about being realistic here.
Going from small glutes to huge glutes... if that is the OPs goal, then telling her "ya it is possible just eat at a deficit" then she does and doesn't see the results she wants...how is that helping her?
Besides, my advice was to eat at a small deficit, lean out and then go from there. She could reach her goal, retain muscle (maybe build some) and be happy and not need to bulk, sure. But OP stated "I want to bulk up my legs and glutes" very clearly in her post. As a female, significant gains in size while at a deficit are just not realistic. Otherwise, why would bodybuilders need to bulk at all?
Many of us have been there... we've been through it.. so we are sharing our experiences.4 -
giburns5388 wrote: »For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
You're only mentioning half of what we say is, not unlikely, but impossible. That is, gaining muscle in a calorie deficit. Of course you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time! When we say it's impossible to gain muscle, it's addressed to people that are in a severe calorie deficit and say their goal is to lose fat and gain muscle while in said deficit. Plain old not happening, newbie or not.3 -
giburns5388 wrote: »For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
Being overweight myself, I have to agree with you. I've seen the post of "you won't gain muscle mass on a deficit" so many times so I assumed it was right and exercised just for fat loss. Pre-pregnancy I had not biked in over 9 months and weight 210lbs or lower. My son is now 1 and I lost weight while being in quite a deficit and started biking again after stopping for over 2 years and started squats and my pre-pregnancy clothes almost all fit and my thighs are getting really hard. So I'm wondering if the opposite could be true?2 -
giburns5388 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »1) Lift weights and use a proper progressive programme
2) You are unlikely to gain muscle and lose fat. Pick a goal.
From the second post on this thread.
Look at the girls pics sge posted. Its is the furtgest thibg grom unlikely that she would be able to obtain ger goals. Why bother discouragibg her.
I used the word "unlikely" for a reason. A woman in a calorie deficit is not going to build muscle. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.10 -
OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.3 -
giburns5388 wrote: »Stop talking about a recomp to new people. You may be at a stage where thats the only way. But for bew people its not the only way to lose fat and gain muscle.
Before "recomp" ever became a thing, "new" people started working out and lifting weights. They didn't track calories on fancy apps, they ate a little less, made wiser food choices and worked hard in the gym. They lost weight and gained some muscle and no one ever thought twice about it, other than to compliment them on looking good.
They didn't meticulously cut until they reached a certain level then begin a bulk. They just worked out and ate better and made changes to their bodies. Now there are rules of when to start a recomp and cut and bulk. Life was simpler when people just worked out and ate better.13 -
giburns5388 wrote: »Stop talking about a recomp to new people. You may be at a stage where thats the only way. But for bew people its not the only way to lose fat and gain muscle.
Before "recomp" ever became a thing, "new" people started working out and lifting weights. They didn't track calories on fancy apps, they ate a little less, made wiser food choices and worked hard in the gym. They lost weight and gained some muscle and no one ever thought twice about it, other than to compliment them on looking good.
They didn't meticulously cut until they reached a certain level then begin a bulk. They just worked out and ate better and made changes to their bodies. Now there are rules of when to start a recomp and cut and bulk. Life was simpler when people just worked out and ate better.
This is exactly the reason I don't track calories. It doesn't have to be that complicated. It doesn't have to be a science.1 -
giburns5388 wrote: »Stop talking about a recomp to new people. You may be at a stage where thats the only way. But for bew people its not the only way to lose fat and gain muscle.
Before "recomp" ever became a thing, "new" people started working out and lifting weights. They didn't track calories on fancy apps, they ate a little less, made wiser food choices and worked hard in the gym. They lost weight and gained some muscle and no one ever thought twice about it, other than to compliment them on looking good.
They didn't meticulously cut until they reached a certain level then begin a bulk. They just worked out and ate better and made changes to their bodies. Now there are rules of when to start a recomp and cut and bulk. Life was simpler when people just worked out and ate better.
LOL AMEN
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goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.2 -
trigden1991 wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »1) Lift weights and use a proper progressive programme
2) You are unlikely to gain muscle and lose fat. Pick a goal.
From the second post on this thread.
Look at the girls pics sge posted. Its is the furtgest thibg grom unlikely that she would be able to obtain ger goals. Why bother discouragibg her.
I used the word "unlikely" for a reason. A woman in a calorie deficit is not going to build muscle. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
You are wrong again. Your the negative nancy type im talking about.
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giburns5388 wrote: »For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
Being overweight myself, I have to agree with you. I've seen the post of "you won't gain muscle mass on a deficit" so many times so I assumed it was right and exercised just for fat loss. Pre-pregnancy I had not biked in over 9 months and weight 210lbs or lower. My son is now 1 and I lost weight while being in quite a deficit and started biking again after stopping for over 2 years and started squats and my pre-pregnancy clothes almost all fit and my thighs are getting really hard. So I'm wondering if the opposite could be true?
It is true. Good job keep going. The people posting it cant do it themselves because they are past that stage.1 -
giburns5388 wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
Being overweight myself, I have to agree with you. I've seen the post of "you won't gain muscle mass on a deficit" so many times so I assumed it was right and exercised just for fat loss. Pre-pregnancy I had not biked in over 9 months and weight 210lbs or lower. My son is now 1 and I lost weight while being in quite a deficit and started biking again after stopping for over 2 years and started squats and my pre-pregnancy clothes almost all fit and my thighs are getting really hard. So I'm wondering if the opposite could be true?
It is true. Good job keep going. The people posting it cant do it themselves because they are past that stage.
Yea that's what I kind of assumed, or that they were never very overweight. I'm not sure, I just know what I've been through.
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giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
Strength gains =/= muscle gains14 -
giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.7 -
giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.
QFT! The whole argument is about majoring in the minors.3 -
giburns5388 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »1) Lift weights and use a proper progressive programme
2) You are unlikely to gain muscle and lose fat. Pick a goal.
From the second post on this thread.
Look at the girls pics sge posted. Its is the furtgest thibg grom unlikely that she would be able to obtain ger goals. Why bother discouragibg her.
I used the word "unlikely" for a reason. A woman in a calorie deficit is not going to build muscle. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
You are wrong again. Your the negative nancy type im talking about.
Being a realist does not make one negative.
Why tell people they can achieve the impossible when it will lead to frustration after minimal results.
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giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.
Only a couple pounds? An untrained man can put on up to 20 pounds of muscle in the first year of training.
The reason a recomp only seems to work for new trainee's is because progress happens so much faster at the beginning. Whether your bulking or doing a recomp, you're not going to be putting on 10-15lbs a year after your first 2 years. Everything come slower so unless your meticulously tracking for 1-3 years at a time as an advanced lifter, you won't see progress because it's happening so slow. It's a lot easier mentally to build for 9 months, put on 15-20 pounds, probably half fat and half muscle, then cut for 2-3 months and lose 15-20 pounds and be up 5-6 pounds of muscle from the year before. Had you been patient, the same progress could have occurred eating at maintenance for the year.
It's a lot more fun and exciting to see the scale go up when you're trying to build and see the scale go down when you're cutting.5 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.
Only a couple pounds? An untrained man can put on up to 20 pounds of muscle in the first year of training.
...
At a deficit, or at maintenance? Seriously?
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As a PROFESSIONAL in the business who does this for a living for over 30 years, I will say it's NOT easy. If you think in terms of actual physiology, to GAIN muscle means adding mass. To add mass, that means one goes up in weight. To go up in weight means you're eating a surplus not a deficit.giburns5388 wrote: »For you hardcore guys that are in this for awhile please stop telling people its unlikely. It is highly unlikely for people like you who are near optimum. But for us beginners its really easy with diet and new to weight lifting.
Now granted initially many people who START or RESTART a weight lifting program may gain WATER WEIGHT in deficit, but that tapers off. As fat loss happens, more DEFINITION of muscle appears and people get STRONGER. This is where the CORRELATION of gaining muscle seems to be discussed amongst those who aren't familiar with how their body looks with less fat on it.
People BRAND NEW to weight lifting, a returning athlete weight lifting after a long layoff and very overweight/obese people CAN add some muscle, but in a calorie deficit, even for them it's limited.
It's not said to discourage people. It's just the truth and I'm not here just to pacify people and let them follow BS information that's not true. People would rather know it even if it's not what they really want to hear.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
10 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.
Only a couple pounds? An untrained man can put on up to 20 pounds of muscle in the first year of training.
The reason a recomp only seems to work for new trainee's is because progress happens so much faster at the beginning. Whether your bulking or doing a recomp, you're not going to be putting on 10-15lbs a year after your first 2 years. Everything come slower so unless your meticulously tracking for 1-3 years at a time as an advanced lifter, you won't see progress because it's happening so slow. It's a lot easier mentally to build for 9 months, put on 15-20 pounds, probably half fat and half muscle, then cut for 2-3 months and lose 15-20 pounds and be up 5-6 pounds of muscle from the year before. Had you been patient, the same progress could have occurred eating at maintenance for the year.
It's a lot more fun and exciting to see the scale go up when you're trying to build and see the scale go down when you're cutting.
An untrained younger male (testosterone is key) eating in a surplus could do this, not in a deficit and older, and he was also talking about females in some of his replies.
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IN SURPLUS. Not in a deficit.RAD_Fitness wrote: »giburns5388 wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »OP are you speaking from personal experience? If so, I can relate to an extent. I have absolutely made good strength gains in the gym in the beginning of starting a diet/exercise routine, and ultimately seen much more definition. But I would also agree that there is a limit while in a deficit.
Perhaps it is that "newbie gains" are underemphasized here. They made me pretty happy. Maybe the big improvements I saw in the mirror would be minor to someone who is doing bulk/cut cycles. Or maybe the changes I saw in the mirror had much more to do with losing the layer of fat on top than increasing muscle size.
At a certain point I plateaued in my strength training and the only times I seemed to make any progress were when I'd put on a little weight.
Yes I am. I went fron 43 to 35 inch waist in 2 months. Abd made significabt strebgth gains in all my lifts. When i plateau also my only course of action will be recomp. But I aint there yet.
gaining strength =/= gaining muscle, they can be mutual exclusive, though usually with muscle gain comes strength, but you can gain strength without gaining muscle.
How do you know you put on muscle while losing the fat?
At best you will only put on a few lbs of muscle from newb gains anyway. The main reason to lift while in a deficit it to maintain the muscle you already have.
Too many people wait until goal weight to lift, and during the losing process lost muscle. It is much easier to maintain your current muscle than it is to build new, after losing it.
Only a couple pounds? An untrained man can put on up to 20 pounds of muscle in the first year of training.
The reason a recomp only seems to work for new trainee's is because progress happens so much faster at the beginning. Whether your bulking or doing a recomp, you're not going to be putting on 10-15lbs a year after your first 2 years. Everything come slower so unless your meticulously tracking for 1-3 years at a time as an advanced lifter, you won't see progress because it's happening so slow. It's a lot easier mentally to build for 9 months, put on 15-20 pounds, probably half fat and half muscle, then cut for 2-3 months and lose 15-20 pounds and be up 5-6 pounds of muscle from the year before. Had you been patient, the same progress could have occurred eating at maintenance for the year.
It's a lot more fun and exciting to see the scale go up when you're trying to build and see the scale go down when you're cutting.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 4 -
OP: The fact is that if you are eating at a deficit and losing weight, you will most likely lose BOTH fat and muscle. The paradox is that you can get stronger despite losing LBM (lean body mass), which includes but is not limited to muscle.
For example, I have lost 38# from 196# to 158# over the past 13 months dropping my BF from around 25% down to just under 9% in the process. That means that my BF weight dropped from about 49# down to 14# while my LBM dropped from 147# down to 144#.
The fact that my LBM "only" dropped 3# in the process was largely due to my diet and exercise program, including my recomp efforts over the last 8 months, which resulted in the conversion of 8# of BF into 8# of LBM in the process.
However, at the same time that my LBM and BF% dropped, my strength increased by 20-30% as measured by the calculated 1RM for the 4 main compound lifts - - DL, SQT, BP and OHP.
I also went from being able to do only 2-3 pullups and 7-8 plank pushups at a time to being able to do 50 pullups (in 5 sets of 10) and 100 decline plank pushups (in 5 sets of 20) while wearing a 20# vest.
So, strength gain actually can be negatively (inversely) correlated with weight loss which means that you can get stronger despite losing LBM (including muscle which is only a fraction of LBM and cannot be measured my any conventional methods availabke to the). public
In short, no one is trying to decieve or discourage you or others when they say that you are unlikely to gain muscle while in a deficit.
It is simply the truth but this doesn't mean that you can't get stronger, healthier and look better in the process. You certainly can and, I for one, am proof of that.
You apparently are too.
7
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