Proccessed Foods
Replies
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when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).7 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »Likes of?
To me that is just a lack of knowledge. The last time I asked this question the poster came back saying cobalamin
To me processed means easy. Like if I buy grated cheese, it is highly processed from the milk that left the cow but it makes my life easier.
Thankfully we have developed from having to go hunt and gather our food.
So you're basically calling me uneducated because of my opinion? The question was what comes to mind when you hear processed food...? This was my opinion...why do you need to tell me my opinion is wrong?
If you can tell me that things like sodium benzoate, food colorings (red 40, yellow 5 etc), butylated hydrozyttoluene (bht) etc (the list goes on) are good for you, I'd love to hear it since I apear to lack the proper knowledge.
It is very apparent from replies I've gotten on my posts on this board that my opinions and beliefs are against the grain and in the minority...and that's fine. I don't feel the need to follow the opinions of everyone else. If the FDA says something is safe, I don't feel the need to blindly follow without doing my own research on the subject. The FDA has said many things are safe, only to have them banned in other countries or later found to be harmful. I try to avoid GMO if I can because I believe they are harmful. Do I eat them? Yes because it's extremly hard to avoid them, but if I have a choice I will avoid them.
So if I'm uneducated because I have my own opinions and follow my own food beliefs, then I suppose I'll accept that.
It's how fora work, somebody posts and others comment on it. And yes not being able to pronounce things is just because we haven't learnt how to say them. It doesn't mean any thing else.
As for GMO etc you have your choice to make like each other individual has. Being in the UK we don't have them except in animal feed.
If we did I doubt I'd go out of my way to avoid them.0 -
Is this going to turn into another sodium bicarbonate thread11
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Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?12 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.3 -
Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
It's important to understand what the ingredients are. I think that virtually all of the foods with lots of ingredients I buy premade have ingredients that are easy to pronounce AND things I understand what they are. I mean, Breyers, which is not the ice cream I prefer or one I think of as all that, is unquestionably processed, no?* And the ice cream I make at home -- which I do sometimes -- is every bit as much a food I should limit as a store-bought ice cream, no? So how is this even all that useful?
Again, I would personally feel like a liar saying that I don't eat processed foods, and so when someone asks about that I am kind of in a bind (like when someone asks if I'm born again and I think "well, under my definition, of course, but under yours, probably not"). I think I don't eat processed foods as they define it (based on my understanding of how the word gets used on MFP), but of course I really do -- and so do they! So I feel compelled to explain more and then we get into one of these silly debates.
The post from @ksharma frustrates me (although I like her quite a bit, she has smart things to say), because that IS NOT how I think people off MFP normally use the term and when I say "yes I eat processed foods, I eat smoked salmon and yogurt" I am not being difficult, I am trying to be as honest and clear as possible.
A second question is what is actually wrong with processed food, choosing perhaps something we'd all agree is processed, like some protein powder, or a Kind bar, or an Amy's frozen meal** (example of the ingredients from one chosen randomly: filtered water, organic corn, organic corn masa (organic stoneground corn, trace of lime), organic black beans, monterey jack cheese (pasteurized milk, culture, salt, enzymes [without animal enzymes or rennet]), olives, expeller pressed high oleic safflower and/or sunflower oil, organic tomato purée, organic onions, organic sweet rice flour, spices, sea salt, organic garlic, organic cilantro. contains milk).
*I'm currently into Jeni's when I get ice cream. Ingredients for the Middle West Whiskey Pecan, which also is unquestionably processed: Nonfat Milk, Cream, Cane Sugar, Roasted Pecans, Whiskey, Tapioca Starch, Sea Salt, Natural Flavors.
**I don't eat frozen meals, but I think they vary enormously in nutritional content.5 -
Cooking is processing. So is slicing, peeling, and chopping.6
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alabove2017 wrote: »When you hear the words processed foods what comes to mind. Food processing or package processing?
Neither. I ask myself whether it's tasty on it's own or do I need to do something to it to make it tasty AND, does a serving fit into my calorie goal (plus the usual, blah, blah, macro/micro, healthy, meeting nutritional needs).
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
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kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.1 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
Um, pretty sure that the poster was referring to the child with the Shakespeare comment, not you. Reread before you get insulted.6 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »Seitan... is it "Say-tan" or "Sy-tan"? Serious question; I use it, but I've never actually heard its name spoken and I'd hate to get strange looks when people think I'm saying I consume the lord of the underworld if I'm mispronouncing it...
It's say-tawn. Nothing like how it is spelt.
Thanks!2 -
Food processing, anything that has been modified so it has more than one ingredient in it (like the previous example of rolled oats, the oats would still be natural as long as it's just the oats in the packaging, but add sugar or salt it becomes processed).
What about bagged mixed salad? Definitely fits many definitions of processed because not only does it contain more than one ingredient, but it's also packaged.
To me, it's just different types of salad greens that are pre-washed and put in a bag. Easy, convenient and in a lot of cases, more economical than if I were to buy all of the different greens separately and do it myself.
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
@megpie41 When I first read the post I thought the "she" referred to you and was offended on your behalf, but when I reread it understood the "she" to mean the little girl in the Breyers commercial and in that case thought it was relatively appropriate, although unfortunately unclear.4 -
And without knowing what the OP meant by "package processed," the only example I can come up with of that - in the definition as it stands - might be a bag of microwave popcorn which does, in essence, get processed while still in the package. 1
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
You have no idea what or how I eat. You were the one who made the comment about not eating foods with unpronounceable ingredients. Have you seen the chemicals in the makeup of fresh produce? You'd be avoiding those too.6 -
Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa.
Well, you are talking about avoiding things with chemical or proper, official, scientific names, but everything has those too, no? (Well, not spaghetti carbonara, but a 10-year old could have problems with that too.)
For example: Quinoa is the common name for Chenopodium quinoa
The bigger question is why does something being designated by a chemical name or scientific name mean that you would assume it's bad for you (i.e., sodium bicarbonate as one such example). Why not say it depends on what specifically it is.
Same with processed foods. That's a HUGE category, the question is what processed foods? Like all foods, it may be easy to fit into a healthful diet or not, have things that make you want to avoid it, or not. I avoid palm oil, for one example. It's more of an ethical thing, but it's in lots of ultra processed foods (and some lighter processed foods) and yet is super easy to pronounce and no more questionable on its face than olive oil, no?
I am interested in a genuine, good faith conversation about this, not trying to give you a hard time.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.6 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
You have no idea what or how I eat. You were the one who made the comment about not eating foods with unpronounceable ingredients. Have you seen the chemicals in the makeup of fresh produce? You'd be avoiding those too.
I've been wondering when the obligatory "but produce has chemicals" comment would appear. I should start a Processed Foods Thread Bingo...6 -
VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.
Which is why I prefer to use the term "convenience foods". Most people know what I am talking about (and yes, I do incorporate them in my diet because they are not bad for me).2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
She probably couldn't read or understand Shakespeare either. Should we avoid his plays?
You guys really are insultive...very mature. I have beyond a college education so I am well educated. Can I actually pronounce the names, yes. Most educated people can differentiate between a chemical name and quinoa. You guys can continue to eat FDA chemicals because they cause no harm. I will continue to avoid them and that is my choice.
Maybe I should have said difficult to pronounce for a 10 year old...but now you're going to complain with that analogy...there is no winning or common understanding with you guys so I'll stop trying.
You have no idea what or how I eat. You were the one who made the comment about not eating foods with unpronounceable ingredients. Have you seen the chemicals in the makeup of fresh produce? You'd be avoiding those too.
I've been wondering when the obligatory "but produce has chemicals" comment would appear. I should start a Processed Foods Thread Bingo...
Everything has chemicals. The point is, whether they're in whole foods, processed foods, unpronounceable or unknown, they don't mean the food is bad or something to be avoided.6 -
VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.
Maybe because I hang out with foodies and lawyers who are overly analytical about language. ;-)
But cheese is one thing I think everyone would point out is processed, and I don't mean American processed cheese product, but good cheese.
I am learning that processed is now like "socialist," it gets used to mean "things I do not like" and not with any useful meaning. (That socialist thing may be changing, not sure, and may well be different in the UK, so joke may fall flat, oh well.) But that is not yet something I had experienced in the offline world much, although the more I read popular nutrition stuff (not educated stuff), the more I see it is becoming a thing.
Doesn't solve the problem that it creates an unanswerable question.
Do I eat processed food?: well, of course, but if we mean what you call processed, maybe not or rarely anyway.
Annoying.
Bigger question, as you point out, is that it says nothing useful about about nutrition or weight loss.
Hilarious thing is that when asked what's wrong with processed foods very often people say "it's packed with sugar or fat or salt" (which cheese is, it has sodium and is high fat). Clearly, not all processed foods have these things, lots of homemade foods do, and they are also extremely easy to pronounce.4 -
Yes, sodium benzoate is easy to pronounce...that one came to mind because I knew if off hand and didn't have to look it up to spell it.
Think of the old Bryers ice cream commercial with the little girl reading the ingredients. She reads the competition and can't pronounce the chemical names....she reads Bryers and reads "milk, cream, sugar..." This was my point.
Silly bit of trivia: the vanilla bean specks in Breyers and similar premium ice creams are not what you think. They use vanilla extract for flavor. The specks are the by-product of processing the vanilla beans into extract so they have all the flavor removed and are there for show.9 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I think it has more to with everything being processed in some way, so it being pointless to discuss whether we eat processed food in the technically correct context, since obviously yes, all of us eat mostly processed food (unless someone is eating only raw vegetables and fruit, I think it is impossible not to). So I always considered the term "processed" mostly as a way to describe ultra processed food, and this is what most people IRL seem to mean with it.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.
Which is why I prefer to use the term "convenience foods". Most people know what I am talking about (and yes, I do incorporate them in my diet because they are not bad for me).
I find this a much more sensible approach to the language question, since usually this IS what is meant on MFP.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.
Maybe because I hang out with foodies and lawyers who are overly analytical about language. ;-)
But cheese is one thing I think everyone would point out is processed, and I don't mean American processed cheese product, but good cheese.
I am learning that processed is now like "socialist," it gets used to mean "things I do not like" and not with any useful meaning. (That socialist thing may be changing, not sure, and may well be different in the UK, so joke may fall flat, oh well.) But that is not yet something I had experienced in the offline world much, although the more I read popular nutrition stuff (not educated stuff), the more I see it is becoming a thing.
Doesn't solve the problem that it creates an unanswerable question.
Do I eat processed food?: well, of course, but if we mean what you call processed, maybe not or rarely anyway.
Annoying.
Bigger question, as you point out, is that it says nothing useful about about nutrition or weight loss.
Hilarious thing is that when asked what's wrong with processed foods very often people say "it's packed with sugar or fat or salt" (which cheese is, it has sodium and is high fat). Clearly, not all processed foods have these things, lots of homemade foods do, and they are also extremely easy to pronounce.
I can totally relate with your experience with "socialist" and have been really frustrated with how this term has been misused. I won't expand on that as that would get too political for the main forums.3 -
I do use convenience foods instead of processed because it is more descriptive of what I am talking about. But really it makes no odds because if I want any of them I'll eat them.6
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I think it has more to with everything being processed in some way, so it being pointless to discuss whether we eat processed food in the technically correct context, since obviously yes, all of us eat mostly processed food (unless someone is eating only raw vegetables and fruit, I think it is impossible not to). So I always considered the term "processed" mostly as a way to describe ultra processed food, and this is what most people IRL seem to mean with it.
It's entirely possible I am too much of a literalist.
If someone acknowledges that everyone (mostly) is processed and they are using it as a shorthand for ultra processed, that's cool. Maybe I'll start by asking that.
I'm not sure there's a common usage for ultra processed, as I get the feeling any prepared bread that is purchased is considered such, but there's obviously a huge variety there: bakery bread is probably the same as what I would make at home, for example.
Bacon is another example, it's generally considered processed, no, even though what I buy from a farm doesn't have much in the way of added ingredients (beyond what is necessary to cure) and same with some storebought brands (not saying this makes a difference for health, just part of why I find it puzzling).
My biggest confusion is the idea that protein powder is not processed, which I've seen over and over on MFP. People seem to use "processed" for "things I don't think are good for me."7 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »when I hear "processed food", I think of processing that adds a ton of preservatives to extend the food lifetime way beyond what more natural ways would achieve, or artificial flavouring and colouring to mask/alter significantly the taste, or using substitutes for other ingredients, either to make them more "trendy" or usually to cut the costs.
I find this interesting, because I simply would not assume the word is used in such a limited way, it makes no sense to me. And as I said above, I think to the types of processed foods I eat or use, which are mostly more lightly processed or about preparation vs. addition of preservatives (not that I think there's anything inherently wrong with preservatives, and traditionally it's such things as salt, plus smoking, canning, pickling and related ingredients).
I wonder when the popular usage started shifting so that some people think "processed" refers to a much smaller portion of foods than it does.
I find this usage really frustrating, because if someone asked me if I avoid processed foods I'd say of course not, because I eat yogurt, etc. But then people insist that they do when they have protein powder and packaged bacon and so on in their diaries. If I said I did not eat processed foods (even though I do eat a mostly whole foods diet just because of personal preference), I'd feel like a liar, so people who eat lots of processed (in my mind) stuff insisting they gave up processed foods because they stopped going to McDonalds (well, more than once a week) or
buying lots of frozen pot pies or whatever is confusing and makes communication so much harder, IMO.
I'm not trying to be critical, but more to understand. I don't find that people in my life have some clear meaning of "processed" that is different than what I think of as processed. They's probably say something like "I'm avoiding foods with additives" if that's what they meant (which is problematic too, as what additives, just salt is an additive, but still not the odd meaning of "processed" I see here).
I have always found the popular usage to mean Ultra Processed Foods.
And I have not. If I told someone I knew I didn't eat processed foods while eating a homemade pasta dish with some cheese on it (also veg and lean meat), I imagine they'd poke a bit of fun.
This is despite the fact that neither the dried pasta I used nor the cheese would be "processed" in the weird sense it gets used by some.
So I'd feel like a liar to claim I do not eat processed foods and it causes me dissonance when people who clearly do insist they do not (especially when they usually ate, until last week, ultra processed foods I never ever ate and are specifically referring to cutting out those things).
I am confused by this in part because I did go through a stage where I tried to avoid all foods not processed by me, and it was HARD and made things pointlessly hard for me, and I absolutely did worry about things like cheese and flour.
Honestly. In the real world, I find people don't consider cheese, milk, butter etc to be processed. Processed is a word with negative connotations when applied to food. And I know some pretty intelligent reasonable people. It's just a modern vernacular to explain some foods we're supposed to consider bad for us.
Which is why I prefer to use the term "convenience foods". Most people know what I am talking about (and yes, I do incorporate them in my diet because they are not bad for me).
I find this a much more sensible approach to the language question, since usually this IS what is meant on MFP.
Correct. Most people wouldn't have a problem with a bowl of oatmeal made from Steel Cut or Old Fashioned Rolled Oats (both technically processed since they are not in the original grain form), but "process" it to make it instantly edible with some boiling water and you have a convenient food that some would prefer not to eat because of the things added to it.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I do use convenience foods instead of processed because it is more descriptive of what I am talking about. But really it makes no odds because if I want any of them I'll eat them.
Yup, me too. I doubt I could have continued eating within my targets during my moving house if it hadn't been for a freezer full of Lean Cuisine's and my microwave.1
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