Ketogenic diet

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  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    edited May 2018
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    anubis609 wrote: »
    dangerousdashie wrote: »
    Been on it for long term health reasons. I have been on it without breaking it for 1.5 years. As far as fitness, it doesn't automatically help with weight loss unless you're obese, but it may help satiate you. I see people complaining about being hungry in a deficit. I don't get hungry on a deficit except appropriately before my 2 meals. Carbs were very addicting to me, and it would be hard to not overeat them. On keto, I feel satisfied. Plus there are keto versions of carbs foods that are just as good (once you are on keto long enough to forget what those carby things tasted like) but less addicting.
    dangerousdashie wrote: »
    skryking wrote: »
    As a type 2 diabetic, low or no carb is almost a must for me. Really sucks as I really really like ice cream.

    There are some keto ice creams! So Delicious makes sugar free, dairy free ice cream and ice cream bars. I've also gone to liquid nitrogen ice cream shops and asked them if they can make custom keto ice cream and they said yes if I brought the ingredients on a slow day.

    Here's where I have problems with diets that restrict an entire macronutrient, regardless of the diet... People begin to bastardize food to fit their new diet. Eg: black bean "brownies" for vegans, almond flour or cream cheese "bread" for ketoers, etc. all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public.

    I wonder if anyone realizes they're processing food just as heavily as manufacturers and often with more calories.

    "Keto" ice cream, bread, pasta, donuts, pizza... Look, anything is "keto friendly" if you have a small enough serving of it, or really just be an adult and make adjustments to focus on nutrient dense food with small allowances for actual treats once in a while. If you want to follow a low carb diet for nutrient density and splurge on a scoop of genuine ice cream, then that makes a lot more sense than trying to stay in ketosis by replacing 30g of carbs with 70g of fat.

    #butmuhinsulinz arguments have been debunked... and by the more appropriately self-educated low carb community no less; who once used to believe the insulin theory of obesity but have shifted their views along with growing evidence.

    https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/05/03/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/

    So instead of having a problem with the diet, it's more about how people bastardize the diet? And people who avoid processed food?

    For lunch I had some chicken and cheese slices - without keto bread or anything. Both were processed. ;)

    I do agree that replacing 30g of carbs (120 kcal) with 70g of fat (630 kcal) is a bad idea for weight loss. Perhaps it is a good idea for those diabetics who want a caloric splurge without a BG spike.

    I have a problem with any diet if it's going to lead to bastardizing food and relying on logical fallacies to fit a narrative.

    You're alluding to the notion that I have a problem with processed food, which is actually the opposite. I eat processed food daily, much like most people in westernized society. I just don't claim to avoid commercially processed food just so I can process it myself and say it's healthier because it fits my preferred diet.

    I also never mentioned diabetes, but while we're on the topic, if you read the article, you will see that fat bomb calorie splurges actually promote hepatic insulin resistance, which for a diabetic trying to manage their glucose levels, would actually be a contradictory result. On the topic, insulin resistance is a consequence of pushing adipocyte storage tolerance (fat gain) to their limits (known as the personal fat threshold), as opposed to the insulin model that purports to say insulin is the cause of diabetes and obesity.

    I did not mean to say that you have a problem with processed food. I had interpreted your post to say that you dislike it when people make a point of avoiding processed food in the pursuit of better health from when you said, "...all in the laughable chase for "optimal health" by eliminating processed food proposed by the evil USDA or whatever government agency is pushing devil food onto the public."

    I did read the article. I think high fat with high carbs is a horrible combination if hoping to avoiding insulin resistance. That seems to be the fastest way to reach a personal fat threshold: high carbs so high insulin plus with high fat = well filled fat cells. I think high carb (whole foods) is often a good way to avoid IR if you can hack the diet. I think a LCHF (moderate to high protein) is another good way to avoid IR. Fat bombs are a dessert like any other and should be greatly limited... calorie excesses should be mostly limited in general unless trying to gain weight.

    I like Naimen's theories. They make some sense and are less simplistic than the basic insulin model. The only problem comes when looking at fit or slimmer people with IR. My IR came on when I was in the upper end of a normal BMI and reasonably active. I gained after IR developed, so I doubt my personal fat threshold was met when I developed IR. Based on my own experiences, I think there is something to both theories. I doubt either is completely right.

    The thing is even with IR lean individuals, there is still a personal fat threshold that is occurring, otherwise adipocytes would allow for more partitioning, and IR wouldn't happen. There are multiple reasons that contribute to reaching a given person's own threshold sooner rather than later, aside from weight and activity, gender, age, genetic predisposition, type of physical activity, other confounding diseases, environmental factors, etc. all play a part in how well fat cells respond to energy stimulus.

    Example: Consider that younger and more active people are usually able to get away with more dietary mistakes and reverse them much easier than older people. Or people who have much more labor intensive jobs vs sedentary jobs. Or single mothers/fathers making ends meet vs a single person with more time freedom. A lean person with much more fat free mass (lean body mass and skeletal muscle) vs a lean person with less muscle and more fat mass.

    Multivariate factors play a part in overall health, but being lean and moderately active isn't always an outlying reason to avoid the personal fat threshold model of IR, as I understand it.
  • ShayCarver89
    ShayCarver89 Posts: 239 Member
    Its a yes..kinda.. from me. I have a love/hate relationship with Keto. Love the weightloss, hate how expensive and restrictive it is.
  • LillyRiddle19
    LillyRiddle19 Posts: 1 Member
    i eat paleo which is very close to keto as a low carb diet, love it, i cant as much as i want and am losing weight and am getting fitter
  • MaggieFinn
    MaggieFinn Posts: 13 Member
    I'm new to it- in my first month- and like it so far. Weight is coming off crazy fast, I'm never hungry, have tons of energy, and it's easy to modify recipes for my non-keto family members. I have a family history of glucose intolerance and a personal history of feeling unwell after a heavy carb meal, so I'm using it as a way to come off my sugar addiction. I may switch to something like Paleo in the future, but right now I feel great.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,432 MFP Moderator
    MaggieFinn wrote: »
    I'm new to it- in my first month- and like it so far. Weight is coming off crazy fast, I'm never hungry, have tons of energy, and it's easy to modify recipes for my non-keto family members. I have a family history of glucose intolerance and a personal history of feeling unwell after a heavy carb meal, so I'm using it as a way to come off my sugar addiction. I may switch to something like Paleo in the future, but right now I feel great.

    Just to point out, the original Paleo diet is not a carb restricted diet. In fact, it can be very high. But if you have restriction already, id personally wouldn't adhere to a particular diet but rather eat foods that help you maintain good health.
  • ajcsviper
    ajcsviper Posts: 4 Member
    I’m looking to start keto diet but would like some direction to the best site for food recipes. I feel I need to prepare some keto friendly foods and don’t want to guess what’s good. I just need th direction.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    ajcsviper wrote: »
    I’m looking to start keto diet but would like some direction to the best site for food recipes. I feel I need to prepare some keto friendly foods and don’t want to guess what’s good. I just need th direction.

    Did you bother to read this thread before posting?
  • jnowak21
    jnowak21 Posts: 9 Member
    I like it! I've been able to stick with it! I love the foods, don't crave carbs any longer (even when they are staring me I'm the face) and I have gained muscle. I make sure to drink quite a bit of water, I still eat veggies and I focus on healthier fats. I love it!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited May 2018
    ajcsviper wrote: »
    I’m looking to start keto diet but would like some direction to the best site for food recipes. I feel I need to prepare some keto friendly foods and don’t want to guess what’s good. I just need th direction.

    As stated upthread, I think keto can be useful if you have tried eating a healthy, diverse diet made up of foods you like within your calories and still have issues with satiety (or in some cases, with T2D). I also think it can be useful if you find that way of eating pretty easy and sustainable and enjoy it more than other ways of eating. I'm always puzzled why people want to do it if they don't already understand what it would look like for them.

    I did it for a bit (I mostly tend to eat lower carb but not keto so it was an experiment), and I didn't do special recipes or anything. What I'd recommend, if you want to try it, is eat mostly your source of protein, lots of vegetables (non starchy), and fat with the protein (i.e., full fat dairy, eggs, roasted chicken with the skin, salmon), plus some additional sources of fat for accent or sides (nuts, seeds, avocado, cook using olive oil or avocado oil or coconut oil or butter, use full fat dressings like a homemade vinaigrette).

    Basically I'd start with your normal meals, cut out the carbs (like the potatoes or rice on the side), add more non starchy veg and some extra source of fat.

    If breakfast is an issue, it might be easy to decide on a standard breakfast. I already did a 2 egg veg omelet, so just stopped having yogurt or fruit on the side and tended to have smoked salmon or avocado instead. Stuff like that.

    Relying on other people's recipes always strikes me as overcomplicating it.

    Anyway, when I did it I missed having local in-season fruit (it was around this time of year I decided it would make me sad not to have those during the summer), plus reasonable portions of oats, potatoes, pasta, beans, lentils, etc, all of which fit on lower carb (IME) but were off limits on keto (I struggled not to go over just with vegetables, some nuts, some plain greek yogurt). I enjoy those more carby foods and think they are healthful, so it seemed pointless and sad for me not to include them in my diet.

    I'll also note that I don't think "craving carbs" is a thing, as carbs are an incredibly diverse food group. If I really just craved "carbs" I'd have a carrot or apple or something. But keto or no had no effect on cravings for me. Eating well tends to make me want the foods I eat, but you can eat well keto or not, and can eat poorly, keto or not.
  • WilmaValley
    WilmaValley Posts: 1,092 Member
    Agree, won't restrict any food!
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    ajcsviper wrote: »
    I’m looking to start keto diet but would like some direction to the best site for food recipes. I feel I need to prepare some keto friendly foods and don’t want to guess what’s good. I just need th direction.

    The Launch Pad stickie in the Low Carber Daily group has lists of helpful websites, pocasts, and books that can help you out:
    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group

    Ketosis is brought on by low carbs; for most people that is under 50g. Most will lower carbs by first cutting sugars and refined grains (foods made from flour like bread, cereal, noodles, etc). Most need to limit starchy root vegetables (like potatoes, onions, carrots) and fruit as well.

    Most will then eat moderate to high protein (20-40%). Fats are typically high (50+%).

    Keto friendly foods are meats, eggs, seafood, full fat dairy (cheese, sour cream, whipping cream), olives, avocados, coconut, seeds, nuts, vegetables, and low sugar fruit like berries.
  • losingstress
    losingstress Posts: 2 Member
    erika_307 wrote: »
    Yes! It is the only WOE I've ever been able to stick to. It's the only thing that's ever kept me from binge eating. I no longer eat fast food, candy, sodas, and other "junk". I no longer want them. So, even if it turns out that it's not the healthiest diet ever... it's a hell of a lot healthier than the way I was eating before. That's how I see it.

    I agree until I cut crap food altogether on keto diet i couldn't avoid binge eating. On my second try at keto. getting better at my food choices now as I have learned more. My BM are better its all about fiber ;)
  • hotel4dogs
    hotel4dogs Posts: 72 Member
    Ever see a keto rash? My daughter did keto for 8 days and wow did she get a horrible rash.
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    hotel4dogs wrote: »
    Ever see a keto rash? My daughter did keto for 8 days and wow did she get a horrible rash.

    yeah some people get that,some get the horrible sweat and breath( I got the breath and sweat)
  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    hotel4dogs wrote: »
    Ever see a keto rash? My daughter did keto for 8 days and wow did she get a horrible rash.

    I didn't but I think the skin is a part of our natural detoxing system so that could happen perhaps.

    for some it goes away for others it doesnt. it says many things can cause it. and for some it will happen every time they do keto qand could last the whole time.
  • philrtx
    philrtx Posts: 68 Member
    The term, "keto" has been usurped by marketers and it pretty useless. When you've got people lining their pockets selling garbage like, "exogenous ketones", it's time to abandon ship. It happens with anything that gets popular, the con artists and shysters take over to profit as fast and as much as possible. I'm currently on a no-name low-carb maintenance diet, a mix of ADR and ANDR, for me it works very well.
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