Heavy lifting while half marathon training - foolish?
Keira08
Posts: 29 Member
So I've been doing really well with my lifting lately and getting pretty strong, I think. This weeks lifts have been 8 reps 80kg squats & 92.5kg deadlifts.
I've just been persuaded to sign up for a half marathon with a friend (for disclosure I've ran half and full marathons before but not those distanced for the last 3 years).
Can I realistically continue with progressive overload in my strength training while I increase my running mileage or will I have to put it on the backburner until after the race?
I've just been persuaded to sign up for a half marathon with a friend (for disclosure I've ran half and full marathons before but not those distanced for the last 3 years).
Can I realistically continue with progressive overload in my strength training while I increase my running mileage or will I have to put it on the backburner until after the race?
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Replies
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Yes you can. People do it all the time. Rest becomes more important, nutrition becomes more important, and scheduling. I assume you are just looking to finish & not set a blazing speed?4
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I'm not a particularly fast runner so it's more for fun. I do run about 20-25 miles a week at the moment so I'm not starting from scratch but will obviously need to increase my mileage pretty significantly3
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Oh if you are already running that much currently you'll be fine! You could probably finish a half tomorrow with that mileage. How high do you plan to top out your mileage at?1
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you can give it a try, and if its not working you can ease up on one or the other. I have tried to heavy lift and run, and my body let me know that i can't both, it takes too much of a toll on me. And It depends on how hard you are pushing yourself, i'd say training for a half marathon is going to be exhausting, me personally i'd have to give up lifting during that training time. Also heavy lifting trains your muscles differently than running, so you might not be able to get to your best possible ability unless you dedicate your training to one thing or another. Its kinda like the saying a jack or all trades, master of none. But give it a try, your body will let you know.0
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i tend to lift early on in the season - as significant races approach, then I dial back to make sure that I'm well rested - but you should be ok1
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I was/am struggling with this. When I started Half training in the Spring, I was in the middle of the Advanced StrongCurves program, with the hopes to get it in only 2xweek. I was able to for the first few weeks, but I had to back off to only once a week, IF I felt good enough, which usually I didn't. Now that I am currently training again for another Half, I still hope to lift once or twice a week, but all the cardio just really takes it out of me and dread the thought of progressing with my weights.
OP, if you feel good with your lifts and runs, then go for it - especially if your race is "just for fun" and you're not trying to PR or anything. Try to decide if your main goal is to keep your strength, or complete the race in x-amount of time.0 -
I've done it, but I cut back on lifting if I'm training for an event. Right now I lift three times per week and run three times per week for 18-24 miles. But when I'm training for an event I'll drop lifting to two days per week (sometimes one day if I'm feeling extra tired), and increase my running days to four. Lifting has made me a better runner so I wouldn't give it up.1
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Thanks for the replies everyone!
I'll try to continue as I have and just listen to my body
rybo - to answer your question I currently run home from work - have been working up to a 5 mile route but the shortest route I can do is just over 3 miles so I was planning to do the short route mon-fri & add in a Saturday longer run, increasing the distance gradually each week, depending how the previous week went2 -
there are different types of muscel faser!
cause of heavy lifting, you sure have fast twitch/FT faser muscels.
for running you need slow twitch/ST faser muscels!
as you run for fun, you should continue your lifting. changing muscel type take up to 3 months or more1 -
I lifted heavy during my half marathon training as well. I had to stop doing legs though because it negatively effected my runs. Just be sure that your nutrition is on point!
Completed mine in 1 hour 52min doing both heavy lifting and running.2 -
Yes you can. People do it all the time. Rest becomes more important, nutrition becomes more important, and scheduling. I assume you are just looking to finish & not set a blazing speed?
No,
You are going to find it really hard to get in the running mileage you need if you are trying to lift heavy three -- even just two -- times per week. You won't have enough time for recovery.
You can try it for a couple of weeks if you want. I think you'll see. Those runs the day after you lift will be really hard, really slow, and really miserable. And, after a couple of weeks, you will stop progressing in one activity or the other. Maybe both.
PS See the other comments above. Almost every one says: 'Yeah, I've done it. But I cut way back on my lifting' or 'Sure, but I stopped doing legs while I was training for my race.'9 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »Yes you can. People do it all the time. Rest becomes more important, nutrition becomes more important, and scheduling. I assume you are just looking to finish & not set a blazing speed?
No,
You are going to find it really hard to get in the running mileage you need if you are trying to lift heavy three -- even just two -- times per week. You won't have enough time for recovery.
You can try it for a couple of weeks if you want. I think you'll see. Those runs the day after you lift will be really hard, really slow, and really miserable. And, after a couple of weeks, you will stop progressing in one activity or the other. Maybe both.
PS See the other comments above. Almost every one says: 'Yeah, I've done it. But I cut way back on my lifting' or 'Sure, but I stopped doing legs while I was training for my race.'
This is such a false hood. Just because many people fail at it, doesn't mean it can't successfully be done. Rest, recovery & schedule are very important. I'm not saying you can run a huge volume & soul crushing lifting program, but you can continue to lift heavy and progress both avenues. Please look up people like Alex Viada, Pete Stables, and "hybrid" athletes. Now that people have opened their mind to concurrent training there are lots of people who successfully do both.6 -
I'm not fast but I train powerlifting 4x per week and still run 3x per week. a month ago I got asked to run the half marathon portion of a local adventure race. I did it on 3 weeks of training. It was my second half marathon and a PR in an uphill direction that I was told was much harder than my first half.0
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alright I lied I did modify my lifting program but only on the week of the race I was running 5/3/1 on the 1rep top set of the cycle and I combined them into 2 workouts I did squat and deadlift on Monday and bench and overhead press on Tuesday. I ran a short 4 mile run at a decent pace on wednesday followed by Thursday and Friday as rest days. Saturday when my race came My legs were very fresh but used to that fatigued state that came with training so much on a normal basis.0
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I can only speak from personal experience (caveat - I'm a lot older than you and, accordingly, take longer to recover). I was following the SL 5x5 program while training for a half-marathon and found that as my weekly running volume was increasing I simply didn't have sufficient recovery time with squatting 3 x weekly added into the equation.
My solution was to only squat heavy once weekly and to do either goblet or sumo squats the other times (being an old geezer my hips appreciated the sumo squats) but it really comes down to a matter of trial and error. Your legs will let you know, in no uncertain terms, if you need to dial it back a bit.2 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »Yes you can. People do it all the time. Rest becomes more important, nutrition becomes more important, and scheduling. I assume you are just looking to finish & not set a blazing speed?
No,
You are going to find it really hard to get in the running mileage you need if you are trying to lift heavy three -- even just two -- times per week. You won't have enough time for recovery.
You can try it for a couple of weeks if you want. I think you'll see. Those runs the day after you lift will be really hard, really slow, and really miserable. And, after a couple of weeks, you will stop progressing in one activity or the other. Maybe both.
PS See the other comments above. Almost every one says: 'Yeah, I've done it. But I cut way back on my lifting' or 'Sure, but I stopped doing legs while I was training for my race.'
given that OP is already doing both, i would tend to disagree with 'stopping progressing' within a couple of weeks.
yes, when her long run gets to 9 miles plus, she might want to reduce the lifting slightly, but that's to be expected and there's nothing wrong with someones training priorities changing...2 -
I'm currently lifting and training for a half marathon and have done so successfully in the past. In fact, I find that lifting and running complement one another quite well, though when it comes to improving I do need to prioritise my goals. When I wanted to get a half marathon PB, I continued to lift so that I could maintain strength, but didn't make any progress on the lifts so I could focus on running (and recovery!).
Since you're already a runner and are planning on running the half for fun, I think you'll be fine combining both. There are some half marathon training programmes out there designed for people who lift (Jill Coleman's comes to mind), so might be worth checking out if you've not already got a programme.
Good luck with the race!4 -
Oh, boy.
We have been through this before.
I Crossfit. So, sure, I am well aware that in the 2016 Games Matt Frazier ran almost a six-minute-mile pace in winning the ~10k trail run event. He's an Olympic lifter by training.
But all that says is that lifters can run and that guy is in incredible shape and he trains four hours every day, with an optimal diet.
It does not say that someone can comfortably go from not being able to run 13 miles to running 13 miles while also improving their lifts.
Oh, by the way, he worked with an elite running coach three times a week during his training -- and even he admits your lifts suffer a bit with cardio training, if the two are not extremely well spaced from each other.
Please look up Pete Stables. He recommends running only twice a week for people who are lifting heavy -- and one of those runs he says should be only a 30 minute run.
That kind of training might prepare you for run-walking a half marathon. But it will not prepare you for any respectable finish in a race that long.
And, look at any "strength training" recommendations from Runner's World or from Alberto Salazar, the proselyte of cross training and strength for runners. You simply will not find anyone recommending that a runner do a Starting Strength/Stronglifts 5x5/bodybuilding type of program. Their programs are dumbbells, cables, and bodyweight exercises. And, they tend to recommend doing those once, maybe twice, a week, and running at least four.
I'm not saying you won't get a bit stronger doing that -- if you are really lacking in strength to begin with. But not many weight lifters would consider that "weight lifting" or "strength training."
I think if you are training for a race, you should follow the advice of the running experts.
Run hills or stairs, and do out-and-out sprint intervals, to try to strengthen your legs.
Do v-sits and push-ups and pull-ups and yoga if you want to work your upper body. (Regarding yoga, it has been shown in controlled experiment that isometric exercises actually strengthen a muscle throughout the range of motion, though you hold the muscle in a static position throughout each exercise.)
Or, maybe better yet, check out "Coach Jay Johnson's" website and/or YouTube channel. He's a former middle distance coach for the University of Colorado, Boulder, and he has all kinds of strength training routines for runners, including an eight-week, general strength progression program and a "core H" routine, that is about 15 minutes of v-sits with flutter kicks and supermans and heel-elbows prop-ups, etc. It's pretty hard. No. It is very hard, actually.
But squats, deadlifts, and bench press? No. It takes too much out of you, and your legs are heavy and slow when you try to run the next day, or later that day.
There is a reason why, when people lift, they generally take a day off between doing the same lifts again. It's because when you lift, and you lift heavy, those muscles need time to recover and repair.
PS Again, I must object to the Jill Coleman program. She admits that she was already really strong before she started training to run, and she only lifted two days a week when she was training to run. One day legs. One day upper body. I can guarantee her lifts were not improving. She was simply maintaining.
Plus, she ran a 1:30 half-marathon on only three-days-a-week of training. Not many of us could do that. (She says she was already doing much interval work before she started running training, so she had a substantial base.)6 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »Oh, boy.
We have been through this before.
Please look up Pete Stables. He recommends running only twice a week for people who are lifting heavy -- and one of those runs he says should be only a 30 minute run.
That kind of training might prepare you for run-walking a half marathon.
But squats, deadlifts, and bench press? No. It takes too much out of you, and your legs are heavy and slow when you try to run the next day, or later that day.
You do realize Pete Stables is a powerlifter and ultramarathon trail runner. Looking him up should show that both can be done, if done smartly.
She (the OP) is already handling more than enough volume of running to complete a half without resorting to a walk/run while still lifting. A few tweaks and she'll have 0 issues moving forward.3 -
just throwing it out there...you also...don't have to run the whole thing. They're not going to pull you off the course if you take a walking break.
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GiddyupTim wrote: »Oh, boy.
We have been through this before.
Please look up Pete Stables. He recommends running only twice a week for people who are lifting heavy -- and one of those runs he says should be only a 30 minute run.
That kind of training might prepare you for run-walking a half marathon.
But squats, deadlifts, and bench press? No. It takes too much out of you, and your legs are heavy and slow when you try to run the next day, or later that day.
You do realize Pete Stables is a powerlifter and ultramarathon trail runner. Looking him up should show that both can be done, if you pick your drug stack smartly.
She (the OP) is already handling more than enough volume of running to complete a half without resorting to a walk/run while still lifting. A few tweaks and she'll have 0 issues moving forward.
I fixed it for you.5 -
Here's an recent article in the journal Sports Medicine from an Australian researcher in which he says that, based on the evidence, his opinion is that resistance training can be detrimental to endurance training.
Reason, he says, is that one recovers from a long run or bicycle ride in about 24 hours. But, it can takes several days, actually, to recover from a single 40-60 minute bout of resistance training.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-017-0758-3
Re: Pete Stables
Listen, nobody said you can't be a good tennis player and a good skier. Or a good distance runner and a good basketball player. Of course you can. Over the years.
But fundamental economics tells us that if you spend it one place, you don't have it to spend in another place. There are trade-offs.
I would love to have it all too. But you just can't have it all. Over the short term, you can put enough effort into your running to get better at running, or you can put enough time into the gym to get better at lifting. But it is REALLY, REALLY hard to do both.
And here is what Pete Stables says on his webpage in his article called "Chalk Dust and Trail Runs: Cardio for Powerlifters."
"Only run twice per week. Once will be a 30-minute heart rate Zone 4 jaunt on the road and the other will be a 60-90 minute Zone 2-3.5 trail walk/run. Supplement another two days with a 20-minute Zone 2 recovery row and a short interval session on the bike."
That amount of running might be adequate to get ready for a race if you are a professional athlete or trainer, who has been working out and developing for many, many years. But, for those of us who are trying to get ready to run a distance we have never run before, or haven't run for a few years, it won't work very well.0 -
GiddyupTim wrote: »Here's an recent article in the journal Sports Medicine from an Australian researcher in which he says that, based on the evidence, his opinion is that resistance training can be detrimental to endurance training.
Reason, he says, is that one recovers from a long run or bicycle ride in about 24 hours. But, it can takes several days, actually, to recover from a single 40-60 minute bout of resistance training.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-017-0758-3
Re: Pete Stables
Listen, nobody said you can't be a good tennis player and a good skier. Or a good distance runner and a good basketball player. Of course you can. Over the years.
But fundamental economics tells us that if you spend it one place, you don't have it to spend in another place. There are trade-offs.
I would love to have it all too. But you just can't have it all. Over the short term, you can put enough effort into your running to get better at running, or you can put enough time into the gym to get better at lifting. But it is REALLY, REALLY hard to do both.
And here is what Pete Stables says on his webpage in his article called "Chalk Dust and Trail Runs: Cardio for Powerlifters."
"Only run twice per week. Once will be a 30-minute heart rate Zone 4 jaunt on the road and the other will be a 60-90 minute Zone 2-3.5 trail walk/run. Supplement another two days with a 20-minute Zone 2 recovery row and a short interval session on the bike."
That amount of running might be adequate to get ready for a race if you are a professional athlete or trainer, who has been working out and developing for many, many years. But, for those of us who are trying to get ready to run a distance we have never run before, or haven't run for a few years, it won't work very well.
We are on the same side. Except maybe for about it working for average people. I'm not saying a person is going to be elite at both, but the average person can do well enough. I ran a half this spring doing 1 run a week. Didn't walk & finished in 1:54. That's a far cry from my PR when all I did was run, but it's still not horrible. I have my 2nd trail ultra of the summer in 4 weeks. Last weekend I PR'd my deadlift the day after a long run. I think we agree more than we don't. While I am certainly encouraging that both can be done, maybe I was a little lax in saying that there are compromises, but I don't feel the compromises are enough to force someone to choose or discourage them from doing both.0 -
1:54 is a great finish time.0
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My personal experience running Starting Strength and training for endurance cycling was that as my mileage increased, I just couldn't recover. I wanted to do well in my event, not just finish it. I continued to lift, but not "heavy" (as in low rep at a high % of max weight) and ultimately dropped it to once per week.
Now when I'm in cycling season I typically only lift a couple times per week and it's mostly geared towards being a better cyclist...I do a lot of plyo work and some lighter Olympic lifting with some other things thrown in there. I use the off-season to hit the gym with more volume and "heavy" work.
Granted I'm 43 and I just don't recover like I used to...
ETA: my trainer/coach is a retired professional BMX and Supercross racer and still races competitively, though not on the pro circuit...he lifts in season, but it's more moderate...he is a competitive power lifter in the off season and holds the state squat record for his weight class...he trains seasonally...1 -
I think most recreational athletes will find it difficult to maintain both a heavy lifting schedule and endurance running training once the mileage increases significantly beyond what is "normal" for them. I think it's probably the same reason a lot of us struggle to maintain weight (or even end up gaining a little) as the mileage ramps up. Long runs require a lot of recovery for most of us. I think most people will end up having to back off on heavy lifting (particularly legs) as the mileage gets higher. Not everyone-I'm sure there are people who manage both. There are also people who somehow lose weight when marathon training. As you said, give it a shot and adjust as you need to. But I think it's reasonable to assume that if you're planning to follow a traditional half marathon training plan (running 4-5 days a week with gradually increasing mileage), it's also likely that you'll find it challenging to do both as the mileage increases and the long runs approach double digits.0
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Done it dozens of times. Harder, yes. Bump up the cals for optimal recovery. Have fun!1
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Granted I'm in no way a fast runner and really only run for the challenge rather than to compete against anyone other than myself, but I both lift heavy (for me) and run long distance. In fact I ran a half marathon last Sunday and while I was still slow by most people's standards I took 50 minutes off my time and ran all but the last 0.5km.
Up until the school holidays started I was running 5/3/1, then as I couldn't consistently get to the gym I was running a lower weight/high volume 100 rep challenge, probably moving at least double the overall weight in a session. Lifting heavy has strengthened my legs no end, which along with the delights my PT incorporates has increased both my speed and endurance.
I also eat well, 2000-2500 Calories to lose 1lb/week, with plenty of protein, carbs and good fats. The week before the half I ate at maintenance, so up to 4000 Calories and the couple of days before I probably about 500 above maintenance
The only real concession I made as far as lifting goes is that apart from a body pump session (very low weight, but very high rep and fast) on the Monday, I only did upper body work for the week running up to the actual race (well there were more than a few lunges and squats in PT and class) and apart from stretching and foam rollering rested the day before. Was back at body pump the next day and back to squatting >bodyweight on Wednesday, today I'll be deadlifting way above bodyweight. (Then doing parkrun tomorrow).
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I'm not a particularly fast runner so it's more for fun. I do run about 20-25 miles a week at the moment so I'm not starting from scratch but will obviously need to increase my mileage pretty significantly
This was one of my first questions. If you are mostly running for the enjoyment and not trying to kill a new PB or any fast time, things get a lot easier. TBH I don't think you would have to change much at all, other than splitting your current mileage up a little different maybe.
The first and only official HM I ran involved zero training over our regular military stuff. I took a couple rest days before the run, and made sure my last lifting day was upper body to avoid a leg day. I think these days a lot of people look at the training methods used by the faster and better runners, and assume they MUST do it to run any race. Though there is no harm in longer term training for any race, for quite a few people not worried about a quick time, all they have to do is get out and race.0 -
Heavy lifting while half marathon training - foolish?
Nope - not foolish.
Possibly ambitious, good possibility that one will compromise the other, especially leg muscle recovery.
Possibility that you can sustain both types of training short term but not long term, that point may come as your mileage ramps up.
I cycle and lift and do get training and recovery conflicts, especially when my volume goes up in the Spring or when tackling long distance or particularly intense riding/training. That's the compromise I make and have to prioritise according to upcoming goals. I basically do almost no leg strength work in the gym when I'm doing my big cycling volume months. Upper body and core work isn't directly affected but accumulated fatigue can mean even that is in "maintenance mode" rather than making gains. But I'm an old fart.....
Really how you feel and how you progress is your best guide as being possible for you could be very different to possible, or even foolish, for others.
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