Experts needed! Protein powders, BCAAs, and Glutamine Supps ???

gower1790

My protein powder says it contains 4.5g creatine-amino blend; creatine monohydrate, taurine, and l-glutamine. It's Whey Protein Powder Blend-Elevation by Millville, (got it at Aldis) I have the chocolate and vanilla flavors. Very delicious, especially with almond milk, if anyone was curious about trying it. Also, vanilla mixes more easily than chocolate. My arms get a true workout just trying to shake up the chocolate, but with enough vigorousness(sp? even a word?) it mixes and tastes just like chocolate milk!

Anywho, I've recently purchased some Body Fortress 100% pure glutamine powder, with 4.5g glutamine per serving. There are no other ingredients so I'm assuming it's truly pure. Hopefully I'm not wrong.

I know I'm getting some glutamine in my protein powder, but I only take a shake about 30 minutes after a workout, and maybe 1 before bed if I haven't met my protein for the day. I was hoping this isolated glutamine would be more effective by taking it as it says on the jar, 1 hour before workout and immediately post-workout for faster recovery.

I also purchased some bcaas, because my protein powder does not have any listed in the ingredients (no valine, leucine, or isoleucine). What I've read a lot is that most proteins DO contain them, so it's not necessary to take them on their own.

Am I understanding my situation correctly? Is it not for naught that I'm taking the isolated glutamine and bcaas, since my protein powder doesn't seem to provide them? (at least not the bcaas, and the off timing for my glutamine for optimum effectiveness)

Or am I so far off it's not even funny? Many thanks in advance for anyone's input

Unknown

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usmcmp

If you are eating adequate protein you don't need any of those.

BCAA studies have only shown effective when protein intake was restricted to very low levels.

Glutamine is found in high amounts in whey and casein protein.

The only people who would really need to be concerned about not getting all of the types of amino acids are vegans. If you eat meat and eat a few sources of meat through the week you do not need supplements for aminos.

gower1790

I get what you're saying, but in my OP I stated that sometimes I don't get my protein for the day.

usmcmp

gower1790 wrote: »

I get what you're saying, but in my OP I stated that sometimes I don't get my protein for the day.

How much protein are you eating on average? What is causing you to not eat much protein in a day?

gower1790

It's set to 160g, but sometimes I can be 30-50 grams under. That's why I'll do a shake before bed.

And I'm not the best at planning my macros for the day, so whatever I end up eating is just something I try to make healthy and I'm in the mood for.

I had just read a lot about the supps, and it seemed to make sense. I wanted my muscles protected during/after workouts, and also just in case the food I'm eating isn't supplying everything I need the way I think it is.
I'm still new at this, and I really appreciate your input

usmcmp

Unless you weigh significantly more than 200 pounds you're still in the adequate zone if you are hitting 100 grams of protein daily.

fishgutzy

I use Combat protein powder. Has varying release rate proteins in it. Not as expensive as those "designer" protein powders that GNC cells.
And Costco sells it at a reasonable price.
I've been using it befire my 5am swim for years. I bring 5 pounds of it with me on my China trips.
basic Whey protein is very expensive in China. $60/pound.

jdlobb

I don't know what the science says, but my experience with supplements has been good. Literally the first week I started taking a post-workout supplement with BCAAs (Post-Jym) I noticed that I was recovering faster and feeling better the day after an intense workout. I used to be able to count on walking funny and being sore for a full day or 2 after a rigorous leg workout, now I'm a little sore, but my movement isn't affected and I feel all around better. This last Friday my workout included 10 sets of 3 squats, at 85% of my one-rep max, with only 30-45 seconds rest between sets. Before I started supplements this workout would have rendered me immobile for 2 days. But by Saturday morning I was able to go for a 2 mile fast walk followed by a full day of running errands, with no issues at all. The only thing that changed was the addition of the Post-Jym supplement (I'm strict about only adding one new supplement or making one major change to my diet or activity at a time and letting it settle for at least a week before changing again).

ninerbuff

usmcmp wrote: »

If you are eating adequate protein you don't need any of those.

BCAA studies have only shown effective when protein intake was restricted to very low levels.

Glutamine is found in high amounts in whey and casein protein.

The only people who would really need to be concerned about not getting all of the types of amino acids are vegans. If you eat meat and eat a few sources of meat through the week you do not need supplements for aminos.

THIS. You're falling for a lot of the broscience in the gyms and bodybuilding community.
What you're doing is providing steady income for the supplement companies.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

fishgutzy wrote: »

I use Combat protein powder. Has varying release rate proteins in it. Not as expensive as those "designer" protein powders that GNC cells.
And Costco sells it at a reasonable price.
I've been using it befire my 5am swim for years. I bring 5 pounds of it with me on my China trips.
basic Whey protein is very expensive in China. $60/pound.

Ironically, most supplement companies get their RAW material from China. Which is why many have contaminants in them.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

gower1790

jdlobb wrote: »

I don't know what the science says, but my experience with supplements has been good. Literally the first week I started taking a post-workout supplement with BCAAs (Post-Jym) I noticed that I was recovering faster and feeling better the day after an intense workout. I used to be able to count on walking funny and being sore for a full day or 2 after a rigorous leg workout, now I'm a little sore, but my movement isn't affected and I feel all around better. This last Friday my workout included 10 sets of 3 squats, at 85% of my one-rep max, with only 30-45 seconds rest between sets. Before I started supplements this workout would have rendered me immobile for 2 days. But by Saturday morning I was able to go for a 2 mile fast walk followed by a full day of running errands, with no issues at all. The only thing that changed was the addition of the Post-Jym supplement (I'm strict about only adding one new supplement or making one major change to my diet or activity at a time and letting it settle for at least a week before changing again).

See, this is what I thought. Recovery time would be quicker, and I wouldn't have to take so many rest days. I'd be so sore I was worried I'd pull a muscle or something if I kept going. Thanks for your input

ninerbuff

jdlobb wrote: »

I don't know what the science says, but my experience with supplements has been good. Literally the first week I started taking a post-workout supplement with BCAAs (Post-Jym) I noticed that I was recovering faster and feeling better the day after an intense workout. I used to be able to count on walking funny and being sore for a full day or 2 after a rigorous leg workout, now I'm a little sore, but my movement isn't affected and I feel all around better. This last Friday my workout included 10 sets of 3 squats, at 85% of my one-rep max, with only 30-45 seconds rest between sets. Before I started supplements this workout would have rendered me immobile for 2 days. But by Saturday morning I was able to go for a 2 mile fast walk followed by a full day of running errands, with no issues at all. The only thing that changed was the addition of the Post-Jym supplement (I'm strict about only adding one new supplement or making one major change to my diet or activity at a time and letting it settle for at least a week before changing again).

Bet you'd get the same result eating a meal with lean protein and carbs.
But many use them and swear without them it's different. The only way to tell is through actually experimentation scientifically, but no one has money and time to do that on themselves.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

gower1790

fishgutzy wrote: »

I use Combat protein powder. Has varying release rate proteins in it. Not as expensive as those "designer" protein powders that GNC cells.
And Costco sells it at a reasonable price.
I've been using it befire my 5am swim for years. I bring 5 pounds of it with me on my China trips.
basic Whey protein is very expensive in China. $60/pound.

That's crazy! Mine is 2lb and is $15. Maybe it's too cheap lol. Thanks for the info!

jdlobb

ninerbuff wrote: »

Bet you'd get the same result eating a meal with lean protein and carbs.
But many use them and swear without them it's different. The only way to tell is through actually experimentation scientifically, but no one has money and time to do that on themselves.

I tried that for a long time. Before starting I was already taking a protein shake immediately after working out followed by a meal about 2-3 hours later. I think part of it is the calorie restricted diet, I probably wouldn't have been hurting so much if I were eating 2000 calories a day. And I suspect that once I hit my weight loss and body composition goals and increase my caloric intake I won't need the supplements as much.

Wetcoaster

Alan Aragon has written extensively on BCAA usefulness in the past; his conclusion is that if protein requirement is already being met through either meals or protein shakes, BCAA supplementation is neither necessary nor helpful.

About a year ago, Alan and Brad Schoenfeld published a paper on the effects of BCAA supplementation during a period of calorie restriction; they found there was no benefit:


https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-016-0128-9
there is a paucity of evidence supporting a beneficial effect for BCAA supplementation in promoting increases in muscle protein synthesis or lean mass, and in fact there might be a detrimental impact given that the AAs appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely into the muscle



There is also a newer study out (link is broken)

A physiologically-significant increase in the rate of muscle protein synthesis requires adequate availability of all amino acid precursors. The source of EAAs for muscle protein synthesis in the post-absorptive state is the free intracellular pool. Intracellular free EAAs that are available for incorporation into protein are derived from muscle protein breakdown. Under normal conditions about 70% of EAAs released by muscle protein breakdown are reincorporated into muscle protein. The efficiency of reincorporation of EAAs from protein breakdown back into muscle protein can only be increased to a limited extent. For this fundamental reason, a dietary supplement of BCAAs alone cannot support an increased rate of muscle protein synthesis. The availability of the other EAAs will rapidly become rate limiting for accelerated protein synthesis. Consistent with this perspective, the few studies in human subjects have reported decreases, rather than increases, in muscle protein synthesis after intake of BCAAs. We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.

mmapags

OP, you are way overcomplicating this. Get a decent protein powder, there are plenty that have full spectrum of amino acids and forget the supps. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

gower1790

Wetcoaster wrote: »

Alan Aragon has written extensively on BCAA usefulness in the past; his conclusion is that if protein requirement is already being met through either meals or protein shakes, BCAA supplementation is neither necessary nor helpful.

We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.[/b]

For the first statement, I sometimes don't get my protein requirements for the day, and my protein powder doesn't contain the bcaas. So I'm still not justified in using it?

For the second statement, I wouldn't be taking them alone...they'd be taken with my protein and glutamine.
I'm sorry if I'm not understanding correctly, but all the information is greatly appreciated.

gower1790

mmapags wrote: »

OP, you are way overcomplicating this. Get a decent protein powder, there are plenty that have full spectrum of amino acids and forget the supps. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

How would getting a decent powder be different than taking the one I have with the supps? Wouldn't it essentially be the same thing?

jdlobb

Why not just try it? It's not something that takes a long time to take effect. You should see a difference the first time you take a BCAA/Glutamine supplement after a workout. Pick up a high quality one, they're not particularly expensive, $30 will get you a good one, and just try it for a few weeks and see if it works for you. If it does, great. If it doesn't, you're out the cost of a single meal in a restaurant or a trip to a movie. It's not something you have to invest hundreds of dollars or months of your time in to see if it helps you.

mmapags

gower1790 wrote: »

mmapags wrote: »

OP, you are way overcomplicating this. Get a decent protein powder, there are plenty that have full spectrum of amino acids and forget the supps. Don't make this harder than it has to be.

How would getting a decent powder be different than taking the one I have with the supps? Wouldn't it essentially be the same thing?

It would contain Leucine and full spectrum of amino acids. It will be more expensive but, together with food sources, give you what you want without additional supplements. ON, Gaspari Myofusion, a good quality brand.

ninerbuff

gower1790 wrote: »

Wetcoaster wrote: »

Alan Aragon has written extensively on BCAA usefulness in the past; his conclusion is that if protein requirement is already being met through either meals or protein shakes, BCAA supplementation is neither necessary nor helpful.

We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.[/b]

For the first statement, I sometimes don't get my protein requirements for the day, and my protein powder doesn't contain the bcaas. So I'm still not justified in using it?

For the second statement, I wouldn't be taking them alone...they'd be taken with my protein and glutamine.
I'm sorry if I'm not understanding correctly, but all the information is greatly appreciated.

You DON'T need BCAA's is the point. All protein is broken down to simplest form for absorption which is amino acids.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jdlobb

This thread got me thinking and doing research. I found one link that said you get enough BCAAs through your diet if you're consuming 1-1.5g per kg of body weight. I have a pretty high protein diet, but that seems really high.

mmapags

jdlobb wrote: »

This thread got me thinking and doing research. I found one link that said you get enough BCAAs through your diet if you're consuming 1-1.5g per kg of body weight. I have a pretty high protein diet, but that seems really high.

Dude, you are way over thinking this. Get .8 to 1 gram of protein per lb of lean body mass and lift. End of story. Don't major in the minors.

psuLemon

jdlobb wrote: »

This thread got me thinking and doing research. I found one link that said you get enough BCAAs through your diet if you're consuming 1-1.5g per kg of body weight. I have a pretty high protein diet, but that seems really high.

For a 175 lb male (79kg), that is 79 to 119g of protein a day. It's not that much.

OP, how much do you weigh? Your goal may be 160g but it doesn't mean you need that much. When looking at protein needs, it's a range (1.5-2.2g/kg). And as long as you are consistently below, it's a non issue.

gower1790

I'm 155. I guess that means I should adjust my macros? Thanks for the info!

psuLemon

gower1790 wrote: »

I'm 155. I guess that means I should adjust my macros? Thanks for the info!

You can if you want to. Or you can just focus on calories and making sure you get around 110 to 150g of protein. But this also assume you are trying to lose weight. It's much easier to maintain muscle if you are maintaining weight.