How to increase Cardio/Endurance on two bad knees...........

bikecheryl

I'm looking for a program that will help me build my cardio & endurance despite two bad knees.
So walking and running are not an option.
.
Biking definitely is or perhaps something else ??
.
I'm looking for a defined, set program..... Tuesday do this.... Wednesday do that.
.
I used to run marathons so I understand the principal of building up, rest weeks, etc.
And I absolutely thrive on a schedule....
I just don't know how to do it other ways than running.
.
Note: When osteoarthritis in both knees stopped me from running I kind of lost myself for awhile.... gained alot of weight and am pretty much starting from scratch here.
I'm scheduled for a TKR next year and need to be ready for it.
.
I have lost 50 lbs from April and have another 75 or so to go.
.
Any and all help greatly appreciated.

cmriverside

Swimming?

Freischuetz

swimming was my first thought too.

if you dont know already: glucosamin will help you with osteoarthritis

tanny20171

bikecheryl wrote: »

I'm looking for a program that will help me build my cardio & endurance despite two bad knees.
So walking and running are not an option.
.
Biking definitely is or perhaps something else ??
.
I'm looking for a defined, set program..... Tuesday do this.... Wednesday do that.
.
I used to run marathons so I understand the principal of building up, rest weeks, etc.
And I absolutely thrive on a schedule....
I just don't know how to do it other ways than running.
.
Note: When osteoarthritis in both knees stopped me from running I kind of lost myself for awhile.... gained alot of weight and am pretty much starting from scratch here.
I'm scheduled for a TKR next year and need to be ready for it.
.
I have lost 50 lbs from April and have another 75 or so to go.
.
Any and all help greatly appreciated.

I'm certainly no expert but I know swimming is meant to be non weight bearing and safe for people with joint problems?

Well done by the way for your weight loss that is amazing!

Djproulx

Perhaps a swimming and biking mix would get the endurance results you are after. Find a cycling and a swimming program you like. Besides outdoor group rides, there are some good spin bike classes around as well as bike trainer programs for home use if weather is an issue. A mix of cycling with a swim program at your local pool should give you a 5/6 day schedule that builds plenty of cardio endurance.

sijomial

My knees are a mess but cycling works really well for me.
After the last two major injuries my prognosis was a TKR by age 50, I'm now 57 and still going strong and as fit as a flea.
A mile running causes more knee issues for me than 100 miles cycling!

For a defined program the British Heart Foundation have some good programs for getting people from their current status up to a certain mileage.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/get-involved/events/training-zone/cycling-training-zone

RuNaRoUnDaFiEld

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/sportivetrainingplans/sofa_to_50km/8_WEEK_SOFA_TO_50KM_TRAINING_PLAN_OVERVIEW.pdf

I loved this cycling plan, it's called sofa to 50k.

jerms9

I have no knee cartiledge in my right knee and not much left in the left knee. Supplements haven't done jack for me, of course YMIM. Swimming and biking. Actually just started spin classes. Was worried spin would be too hard on my knees and haven't had any issues yet. Granted I'm mostly sitting my butt in the saddle for most class but delightfully surprised at how spinning is going knee pain wise for me.

lorrpb

Rowing, either in the gym or with a group on the water?
-edited for typo

__TMac__

@lorrpb -- Was that supposed to be "rowing"? That's what I was going to suggest. Rowing would be a workout too, I guess.

The Concept2 rowing machine website has an excellent rowing log. It also has fun challenges to participate in. If you have access to a newer machine (PM5) and a smart phone, you can Bluetooth download and then upload your workouts to the log. Also, if you Google "rowing Pete Plan" you'll find a nicely scheduled rowing plan that will increase difficulty in an appropriate way.

Rowing on the water in a club is fun too.

TheChaoticBuffalo

I have arthritis (bone-on-bone) in both knees. Will need to have them both replaced soon. Rowing is my favorite for a good combination of cardio and strength training (full body, one set, 2500 reps ). I've worked my way up to 15,000 meters (about an hour and a half a day) without further damage to my knees. I also used the stationary bike when I first got back to the gym and working out. It was good, but didn't give me the full-body workout I wanted. Swimming would be another good option for low knee impact full-body work with cardio. I'd say give each of them a try and see which of them gets you best motivated to keep at it for the long haul. Could end up being a combination of two or all three of them.

lorrpb

__TMac__ wrote: »

@lorrpb -- Was that supposed to be "rowing"? That's what I was going to suggest. Rowing would be a workout too, I guess.

The Concept2 rowing machine website has an excellent rowing log. It also has fun challenges to participate in. If you have access to a newer machine (PM5) and a smart phone, you can Bluetooth download and then upload your workouts to the log. Also, if you Google "rowing Pete Plan" you'll find a nicely scheduled rowing plan that will increase difficulty in an appropriate way.

Rowing on the water in a club is fun too.

Rowing yes!

bikecheryl

Thanks so much for the info!! I was considering rowing - its great to hear the positive responses on it... especially those with knee issues also.

alteredsteve175

One more vote for rowing. Easy on the joints but physically challenging.

beckyr06

I have knee issues as well, and am not a runner, but used to walk 5 miles daily, including up some major hills. Can't do that anymore on pavement, I feel too much pain about 10 minutes in, but I have found that hiking (on actual ground) doesn't cause the same problems for me. I feel "worked" in the knee joints but not to extreme.

My main exercises this summer have been alternating biking and swimming, and my knees haven't felt this good in years. Not perfect, mind you, but much better.

Best wishes to you.

BrianSharpe

bikecheryl wrote: »

Thanks so much for the info!! I was considering rowing - its great to hear the positive responses on it... especially those with knee issues also.

I row mostly as x-training but would also highly recommend it if there are reasons that you can't run any more. Concpt2's website has great information on it and if you join their on-line community there are lots of challenges etc during the year (we actually have a virtual team here at MFP for some of these events called MFP Friends.....the more the merrier!)

bikecheryl

BrianSharpe wrote: »

bikecheryl wrote: »

Thanks so much for the info!! I was considering rowing - its great to hear the positive responses on it... especially those with knee issues also.

I row mostly as x-training but would also highly recommend it if there are reasons that you can't run any more. Concpt2's website has great information on it and if you join their on-line community there are lots of challenges etc during the year (we actually have a virtual team here at MFP for some of these events called MFP Friends.....the more the merrier!)

Do you have to have a Concept2 rower to participate?

aWildFlowere

Looking for friends with serious knee issues and pre & post TKR friends.

joyinjesus1

Sorry to hear that your knees bother you I'm was going thru same thing but I'm thinking about swimming right now I lift alot weights which helps

joyinjesus1

aWildFlowere wrote: »

Looking for friends with serious knee issues and pre & post TKR friends.

I've been taking elasti joint it's a powder you can take up to two times a day

GreenValli

You have done so well already! Keep on, keeping on!

I would recommend using a recumbent bike, rowing machine, and weights for upper body.
I have had knee issues since I had an accident in 1967.
Now I use a recumbent bike every time I go to the gym, which is usually 3 times a week.
I also use a rowing machine and use weights, mostly for upper body.
I also was lucky to get a free session with a trainer when I first joined. He showed me some exercises that helped my knee and that was when I was about 25 pounds heavier than now. I don't do them any more though because my knee is better.

I actually avoid lifting weights that puts extra weight on my knees though, because I feel tightness in my "bad" knee when I try to carry heavy things.

CarvedTones

Also have bad knees. Use a TRX with an interval timer and mix it up so that I am not always using the same muscles and throw in some windmill shin touches to give the arms a break. It's upper body cardio if you avoid the squats and hops. I do an exercise with the straps shortened where I can hang under it and do something like a crab walk with very little weight on my knees to give them a little exercise bent without triggering inflammation.

AnnPT77

bikecheryl wrote: »

Thanks so much for the info!! I was considering rowing - its great to hear the positive responses on it... especially those with knee issues also.

It's worth a try, but whether it works will depend on very individual details of what's wrong with your knees. I've been a rower (water in summer, machine in winter) since my mid-40s (now 62). Rowing requires lots of leg power, but it's in a straight-line hinge motion (similar to cycling in that respect), with relatively little impact or twisting. Effectively, you're doing leg-press motions, high-rep moderate weight, 1000+ times an hour. Resistance increases via technique (not machine settings) as you get technically better and stronger at it.

I have some OA in both knees and a torn meniscus (not caused by rowing ) in one, and rowing is still manageable for me at decent intensity, if I intersperse rest days and ice after workouts (whether I feel like I need it at the time or not). But I have friends with other knee issues (patella arthritis for one, torn meniscus for another) who do have trouble with rowing, and the other woman with a torn meniscus ultimately gave it up.

For me, the knee stress from the motion is similar to cycling, but rowing has higher resistance than flat-road cycling (even with my hybrid bike). I don't know if you use clips to bike, but rowing is all push, no pull with the legs (even though your feet are tied down). It's all pull, no push with the upper body, so some alternate work to balance muscle development is a good plan for injury avoidance if you do a lot of rowing.

I'm mentioning this because for some reason people think of rowing as primarily upper body exercise, which it most definitely isn't, even though most have seen a rowing machine or rowing shell and should know that the legs are involved.

If you'd like to try it, instruction/coaching from a qualified person is the ideal way to start, with Concept 2 videos as a secondary option (ideally used in conjunction with a mirror and/or videos of yourself). The body mechanics are not 100% obvious, and even quite a few general gym trainers I've seen are doing/teaching it wrong.

If you can, try it out for some time on a decent, well-maintained machine (C2, Waterrower) at a gym or something, before making a major investment.

Don't get me wrong: I think it's great, and I think everyone should do it (as long as they don't crowd up my river ).

GoodLardy

Another vote for rowing. Bad knees here too, love to hike and walk but feel it after a couple miles. No knee issues with the rowing. Purchasing the c2 was the best decision I’ve made. If I had to choose between it and my wedding ring, rower wins!!!

bikecheryl

Hi everyone...... I see this thread was revived..... YAY !! That gives me a chance to update it.

So..... I ended up purchasing a used rower...... worked on it and my bike on a trainer all last winter.

Walked, biked, kayaked and golfed this summer.

Fast forward and I've lost 115 lbs with about 20 to go.

I'm scheduled for a simultaneous double knee replacement January 9th, 2019.

Oh ya.... I joined a crossfit gym last month and it's been great!! The owner has been fantastic at adapting certain exercises to my knees. And I'm getting that structure I was craving.

Thank you all for your great suggestions - they've been extremely helpful..... especially on finding proper instruction when it comes to rowing. I contacted our provincial rowing club and the president was so helpful I'm going to get out on an actually boat next summer!

For anyone else in the same situation...... Don't let bad knees stop you!!!

Seriously, if you have the will, there is always a way..... it's not alway easy or conventional but it is possible.

jseams1234

but really... cycling is a great answer. If you can find one of the cross-country ski machines like the old NordicTrac they work well too.

earlnabby

bikecheryl wrote: »

I'm looking for a program that will help me build my cardio & endurance despite two bad knees.
So walking and running are not an option.
.
Biking definitely is or perhaps something else ??
.
I'm looking for a defined, set program..... Tuesday do this.... Wednesday do that.
.
I used to run marathons so I understand the principal of building up, rest weeks, etc.
And I absolutely thrive on a schedule....
I just don't know how to do it other ways than running.
.
Note: When osteoarthritis in both knees stopped me from running I kind of lost myself for awhile.... gained alot of weight and am pretty much starting from scratch here.
I'm scheduled for a TKR next year and need to be ready for it.
.
I have lost 50 lbs from April and have another 75 or so to go.
.
Any and all help greatly appreciated.

I have a bad knee and hip (same leg) and I swim. I do my own thing but my pool offers Master Swim classes where you work with a personal trainer (swim coach) who devises a workout specific to your needs that includes sprints for cardio and/or working with equipment like a board, gloves, or a bean to increase both cardio and resistance.

earlnabby

bikecheryl wrote: »

Hi everyone...... I see this thread was revived..... YAY !! That gives me a chance to update it.

So..... I ended up purchasing a used rower...... worked on it and my bike on a trainer all last winter.

Walked, biked, kayaked and golfed this summer.

Fast forward and I've lost 115 lbs with about 20 to go.

I'm scheduled for a simultaneous double knee replacement January 9th, 2019.

Oh ya.... I joined a crossfit gym last month and it's been great!! The owner has been fantastic at adapting certain exercises to my knees. And I'm getting that structure I was craving.

Thank you all for your great suggestions - they've been extremely helpful..... especially on finding proper instruction when it comes to rowing. I contacted our provincial rowing club and the president was so helpful I'm going to get out on an actually boat next summer!

For anyone else in the same situation...... Don't let bad knees stop you!!!

Seriously, if you have the will, there is always a way..... it's not alway easy or conventional but it is possible.

Great job and I am glad you found something that worked for you, as swimming has for me. Occasionally reviving a zombie thread is a good thing, especially if the OP sees it and tells us how it went.

Good luck with the knee replacements. I know so many who have had really great results.

debrakgoogins

Water jogging is surprisingly challenging. If you have access to a pool, get into it! Have you tried working with a personal trainer? If you do your research, you can find one that can work wonders for rebuilding the muscle structure around your knees. Yoga is also a great option.