Weight training while trying to lose fat a waste?
jessicaalfaro2427
Posts: 24 Member
Everything i read says lift to lose weight but i also read u cant build muscle unless in a surplus. This seems counter productive to me. Would it be better to stick to cardio until at your goal fat loss and than start to build? Also should you get rid of as much fat before trying the surplus to build muscle?
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Replies
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Lift now to preserve your muscle as you lose. You don't need to do it to lose weight (that comes from a calorie deficit), but you'll thank yourself for it in the end.15
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While it is indeed difficult (if not impossible) to build muscle while in a deficit, if you lift while losing you will preserve existing muscle that would otherwise be lost. So lift
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You already have some muscle. When we lose weight, we lose both fat and muscle. Lifting while trying to lose weight helps limit the loss of muscle and maximize fat loss which will lead to better results in the end (both for your health and your appearance).7
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jessicaalfaro2427 wrote: »Everything i read says lift to lose weight but i also read u cant build muscle unless in a surplus. This seems counter productive to me. Would it be better to stick to cardio until at your goal fat loss and than start to build? Also should you get rid of as much fat before trying the surplus to build muscle?
Couple things...first off, if you're a noob, you can make some noob gains in muscle mass...these aren't substantial, but they are there...especially if you have a lot of weight to lose.
Secondly, muscle is an expensive "commodity" for your body to maintain...when you're dieting and in an energy deficiency, you will lose both fat and muscle...if you're not working the muscle though, you will lose a greater ratio of muscle mass than necessary...as I said, it's an expensive commodity...if you're not going to use it, no sense in your body keeping it around when you have less available calories (energy/currency) to work with.
Lifting in a deficit helps preserve more muscle than you otherwise would...so that when you strip the fat, you have muscle there to give you that "toned" look...women who don't lift or otherwise do some kind of resistance training when they're dieting don't end up with that "toned" look...they lose a lot of muscle mass.
You want to be at a fairly low BF% before you bulk...for a guy, that's ideally 10% or lower...not sure for a female as I don't have any experience with that, but I'd say probably 18-20% BF before a bulk. If you start bulking at a higher BF% you're just going to shorten your bulk because you're going to put on fat too.14 -
Lift.
It's awesome. You'll love it.8 -
Actually depending on your start point (plus genetics, training history etc. etc.) you can build some muscle in a deficit. Smaller the deficit the more likely it will be, higher the deficit the more your chances reduce.
Remember your entire physiology doesn't change when you eat TDEE minus one calorie!!
What you can no doubt gain in a deficit is strength and technique improvements to be much better placed when you do get to goal.
Even if your efforts just result in preserving as much muscle as possible rather than adding a little muscle it will still be the best you that you could have created.
Don't risk just being a smaller version of the current you and being disappointed when you get to goal.8 -
Heather4448 wrote: »Lift.
It's awesome. You'll love it.
I started lifting about a month ago. I disagree with the above.
I've put it off as long as I can (longer than I should), but I really don't enjoy it. I'd rather go for a run.13 -
I see this so often, very curious where this info is coming from. Lifting while losing weight is definitely NOT a waste.... it is going to preserve the muscle you have now and have positive affects on your body composition. Otherwise when you get down to your goal weight you will typically be a smaller version of your current self (which is perfectly fine if that is your goal), Can you build muscle in a deficit? Maybe a little bit but that should not discourage you from not lifting weights. It is similar to me bulking to gain muscle, then when I cut to just stop lifting all together. I definitely wouldn't do that!
ETA: If you are interested in bulking, you want to lift now, have adequate protein and eat in a deficit to reduce bodyfat until you are at least 20% or lower (I would say at least 18% or under) and then you can go ahead and eat in a surplus to gain muscle
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I was thinking the same thing originally. I thought, why waste newbie gains while lifting in a deficit. I thought, why not get down to a lower BF and then start lifting in a surplus so those newbie gains would show. The problem is that one loses a lot of muscle mass while in a deficit and not lifting. If you are very heavy, you probably have a decent muscle base under the fat as it takes a lot of muscle to move around a larger frame. So if you can preserve that, you will actually come out ahead since it is much harder to build the muscle than to maintain it.5
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jessicaalfaro2427 wrote: »Everything i read says lift to lose weight but i also read u cant build muscle unless in a surplus. This seems counter productive to me. Would it be better to stick to cardio until at your goal fat loss and than start to build? Also should you get rid of as much fat before trying the surplus to build muscle?
No, lift weights or do some sort of strength training from the start to preserve as much muscle as possible. I wish this notion of losing weight first before strength training would go away.
For your last question, yes you should try to get pretty lean before switching to a surplus as most people will gain fat and muscle.2 -
I see this so often, very curious where this info is coming from. Lifting while losing weight is definitely NOT a waste.... it is going to preserve the muscle you have now and have positive affects on your body composition. Otherwise when you get down to your goal weight you will typically be a smaller version of your current self (which is perfectly fine if that is your goal), Can you build muscle in a deficit? Maybe a little bit but that should not discourage you from not lifting weights. It is similar to me bulking to gain muscle, then when I cut to just stop lifting all together. I definitely wouldn't do that!
ETA: If you are interested in bulking, you want to lift now, have adequate protein and eat in a deficit to reduce bodyfat until you are at least 20% or lower (I would say at least 18% or under) and then you can go ahead and eat in a surplus to gain muscle
Thank you. Great advice! I do love strength training and do it consistently but have been so curious if im wasting my time. I am only now for the first time doing it consistently and i do see some growth in my arms unless im just losing more fat. Also i am 5'1 135 ish. I was 160 to begin but ideally i want to get to 120 or less before i risk the bulking idea. My goal is to get fit not just skinny3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Heather4448 wrote: »Lift.
It's awesome. You'll love it.
I started lifting about a month ago. I disagree with the above.
I've put it off as long as I can (longer than I should), but I really don't enjoy it. I'd rather go for a run.
Oh thank the lord its not just me! Started last week and have to say I don't enjoy it either.5 -
I think weight training while losing fat is not a waste - excess body fat can be used as fuel. Trying to lose weight, well, that is a waste. Weight loss is so so simple. But it's not necessarily easy. It can be made easier or more difficult. Do it right. Know what you are doing and do it in a way that you like and can do, and just do it.1
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Is weight training under the strength training category? Are there other ways to keep my muscle while losing weight without lifting? Only because I have no access to any weights at the moment as I've signed up for cardio class already prior to knowing this lol I've heard yoga is considered strength training so would that be similar to weight training?1
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@SisepuedeLindaSisepuedeLinda wrote: »Is weight training under the strength training category? Are there other ways to keep my muscle while losing weight without lifting? Only because I have no access to any weights at the moment as I've signed up for cardio class already prior to knowing this lol I've heard yoga is considered strength training so would that be similar to weight training?
Search for "strength training" under the cardiovascular section of your exercise diary if you are looking for how to log it for an estimated calorie burn. The strength part of the diary is just a journal.
Your body doesn't suddenly start using muscle for fuel when you are in a sensible deficit. The amount muscle may be lost can a bit exaggerated on here - it's a risk rather than a certainty. People seem to confuse the inevitable loss of Lean Body Mass with loss of muscle mass.
However, if you do exactly what you have always done when heavy there's less need for it when significantly lighter. That's the reason people say there's a risk when dieting of simply being a smaller version of the current you.
All exercise is positive for your muscles, especially if it puts stress or overload on your muscles - strength training is just the strongest and most significant stress.
Think of a continuum....
Strength training (weights or bodyweight) - cardio with a significant resistance element (swimming or rowing for example) - vigorous cardio - easy cardio - general activity.
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Is this right?Actually depending on your start point (plus genetics, training history etc. etc.) you can build some muscle in a deficit. Smaller the deficit the more likely it will be, higher the deficit the more your chances reduce.
(Naively in hindsight) I had thought that if I trained a bit whilst in a deficit, I'd retain "all" my muscle, and only lose fat! This was miraculously going to "solve" my body fat % problem in about 20 weeks!
Then I started reading this thread, and to be honest my heart sank a bit. Most people seem to be saying you will inevitably lose muscle when in a deficit.
Your post has given me a bit of comfort!2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Heather4448 wrote: »Lift.
It's awesome. You'll love it.
I started lifting about a month ago. I disagree with the above.
I've put it off as long as I can (longer than I should), but I really don't enjoy it. I'd rather go for a run.
Me too. I want to like it, I really do. But I just don't.0 -
@Scubdup
Is this right?Actually depending on your start point (plus genetics, training history etc. etc.) you can build some muscle in a deficit. Smaller the deficit the more likely it will be, higher the deficit the more your chances reduce.
(Naively in hindsight) I had thought that if I trained a bit whilst in a deficit, I'd retain "all" my muscle, and only lose fat! This was miraculously going to "solve" my body fat % problem in about 20 weeks!
Then I started reading this thread, and to be honest my heart sank a bit. Most people seem to be saying you will inevitably lose muscle when in a deficit.
Your post has given me a bit of comfort!
It's far from inevitable - but the actual results are highly variable.
Everyone has a slightly different set of circumstances...
Age, gender (OK limited options for that!), current training/physique status, past training history, size of deficit, adequate protein in your diet, genetics and of course the training stimulus itself.
But I believe the main aim should be to play the cards you have been dealt the best way you possibly can. Whatever the results are it's still the best you could have done.3 -
Is this right?Actually depending on your start point (plus genetics, training history etc. etc.) you can build some muscle in a deficit. Smaller the deficit the more likely it will be, higher the deficit the more your chances reduce.
(Naively in hindsight) I had thought that if I trained a bit whilst in a deficit, I'd retain "all" my muscle, and only lose fat! This was miraculously going to "solve" my body fat % problem in about 20 weeks!
Then I started reading this thread, and to be honest my heart sank a bit. Most people seem to be saying you will inevitably lose muscle when in a deficit.
Your post has given me a bit of comfort!
I gained about 5lbs of muscle during my first 10 pounds of weight loss under a deficit, but have held steady ever since, even though I'm lifting much heavier and with more intensity now. Weight lifting is my main form of exercise, 3-5 days a week. I work out with a HR monitor to keep my HR elevated to maximize the burn.4 -
I have a pair of Bose headphones with a build in HRM. They're excellent. They can cut out sometimes when lifting, but only for a second. I've tried the chest strap ones, but because of the way I'm shaped and where I have fat they never stay in place.0 -
Lifting weights burns more fat than cardio alone. Cardio burns fat while doing the exercise, weight lifting burns fat while doing AND up to 48 hours later, this is why rest days are important. Unless you are lifting very heavy with low reps, you will not bulk.13
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SuezTommo81 wrote: »Lifting weights burns more fat than cardio alone. Cardio burns fat while doing the exercise, weight lifting burns fat while doing AND up to 48 hours later, this is why rest days are important. Unless you are lifting very heavy with low reps, you will not bulk.
Nope.2 -
SisepuedeLinda wrote: »Is weight training under the strength training category? Are there other ways to keep my muscle while losing weight without lifting? Only because I have no access to any weights at the moment as I've signed up for cardio class already prior to knowing this lol I've heard yoga is considered strength training so would that be similar to weight training?
If you are new to strength training, you can start with just bodyweight. Bodyweight squats, lunges, crunches, and push-ups don't require any equipment, and pull-ups and chin-ups just require a bar. If you decide to add weight you can use water bottles instead of dumbbells at first.
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SuezTommo81 wrote: »Lifting weights burns more fat than cardio alone. Cardio burns fat while doing the exercise, weight lifting burns fat while doing AND up to 48 hours later, this is why rest days are important. Unless you are lifting very heavy with low reps, you will not bulk.
No, this isn't how it works. Cardio will burn more calories per time unit than strength training. And while yes muscle is metabolically more active than fat, the extra burn is usually overstated. And heavy weights @ low reps aren't going to bulk. Higher reps and using a broad range of reps are much better for hypertrophy, than solely training in the low rep range. And no one is going to bulk in a deficit.2 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »SuezTommo81 wrote: »Lifting weights burns more fat than cardio alone. Cardio burns fat while doing the exercise, weight lifting burns fat while doing AND up to 48 hours later, this is why rest days are important. Unless you are lifting very heavy with low reps, you will not bulk.
Nope.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fat_loss_training_wars.htm
Yep!
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the thing I've never understood about the cardio vs weights for fat loss is this.
When I lift I will achieve a HR profile similar to a HIIT workout, incredible similar actually.
But I'm supposed to be convinced that despite that, I would have burned more calories jogging at 130 BPM for an hour? Seems flimsy to me. I'm not an expert though, maybe there's good reason.4 -
the thing I've never understood about the cardio vs weights for fat loss is this.
When I lift I will achieve a HR profile similar to a HIIT workout, incredible similar actually.
But I'm supposed to be convinced that despite that, I would have burned more calories jogging at 130 BPM for an hour? Seems flimsy to me. I'm not an expert though, maybe there's good reason.
HIIT doesn't actually burn more calories per session than LISS. It burns more calories per minute.. but since you can only sustain 5-15 minutes, you'll burn less than a 45 minute LISS session.2 -
the thing I've never understood about the cardio vs weights for fat loss is this.
When I lift I will achieve a HR profile similar to a HIIT workout, incredible similar actually.
But I'm supposed to be convinced that despite that, I would have burned more calories jogging at 130 BPM for an hour? Seems flimsy to me. I'm not an expert though, maybe there's good reason.
Heart rate isn't a good indicator of calories burned for HIIT or lifting. Just steady state cardio.5 -
I do a cardio and body weight strength training at work. I run a lap around our interior of the building (I work in a decent size warehouse. Then I do as many push ups (started with an incline and am working my way to the ground), sit-ups, and squats as possible and do it again. Usually I only get 10 minutes before the phone rings so I do more cardio at night. I find it is better that just strength training for me because I get bored. When I do strength training at home I usually put on a show and make myself do at least 1 episode. I do not care for strength training so it helps. I don't know if this will help those who do not like it but maybe it will.2
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