Advice for Increasing 5K pace

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  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    "MeanderingMammal wrote: »

    Can I make the suggestion that you try it the other way round, build your aerobic capacity, and then use intervals. To illustrate these are a few interval sessions that are appropriate to someone improving their 5K time.
    • 2 mile warm-up, 5 x 400 meters at 5k goal race pace with 100m slower rest, 1-2 mile cool down
    • 2 mile warm-up, 4 x 600 meters at 5k goal race pace with 100m slower rest, 1-2 mile cool down
    • 2-3 mile warm-up, 3 x 800 meters at 5k goal race pace with 200m slower rest, 1-2 mile cool down
    • 2-3 mile warm-up, 6 x 400 meters at 5k goal race pace with 100m slower rest, hammer interval 6 as fast as you can, 1-2 mile cool down
    • 2-3 mile warm-up, 4 x 800 meters at 5k goal race pace with 200m slower rest, hammer interval 4 as fast as you can, 1-2 mile cool down

    You'll note that the most basic of those covers nearly 5 miles with the longest covering 8 miles.

    And is thus totally inappropriate for someone who's running a 40-42 minute 5k.

    Which was the underlying point of illustrating what an intervals session means. I've already responded to you on this and highlighted that it's part of an improvement plan, and builds on a capacity development phase first.

    For someone where the originator is the recommendation of interval training by the well meaning are wholly inappropriate.

    I appreciate that we're coming from different places, your focus is on passing your annual fitness test. Personally I'll pass mine without getting out of warm up pace, but then my focus is on long distance. You run to pass the test.

    I appreciate that your ivory tower position is that everyone should want to run 30 miles a week and 3-4 marathons a year.

    It's neither practical nor applicable to the rest of the world where we don't get paid to train, and doing more than 15 miles a week means sacrificing time with family or other necessary activities.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited September 2017
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    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I appreciate that your ivory tower position is that everyone should want to run 30 miles a week and 3-4 marathons a year.

    The originator wants to improve her 5K time. Moving from 9 miles per week to 18 miles per week, of easy paced running, will do that. If she wants to make more improvement moving up to 24 miles per week would make that viable by adding a speed session, whilst managing injury risk.

    It really is that simple.
    It's neither practical nor applicable to the rest of the world where we don't get paid to train, and doing more than 15 miles a week means sacrificing time with family or other necessary activities.

    I wish I did get paid to train, that way I'd have done more than three marathons, two ultras, a half marathon, 10K and eight 5Ks so-far this year. I've got another two marathons and a night-time half before the end of the year though, which I'm quite looking forward to.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I appreciate that your ivory tower position is that everyone should want to run 30 miles a week and 3-4 marathons a year.

    The originator wants to improve her 5K time. Moving from 9 miles per week to 18 miles per week, of easy paced running, will do that. If she wants to make more improvement moving up to 24 miles per week would make that viable by adding a speed session, whilst managing injury risk.

    It really is that simple.

    Except there's no need to go to 18 miles per week when 12 is more than sufficient. Which can easily include a speed session.

    Your advice is consistently both nonapplicable and unhelpful for casual and recreational runners.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited September 2017
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    stanmann571 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I appreciate that your ivory tower position is that everyone should want to run 30 miles a week and 3-4 marathons a year.

    The originator wants to improve her 5K time. Moving from 9 miles per week to 18 miles per week, of easy paced running, will do that. If she wants to make more improvement moving up to 24 miles per week would make that viable by adding a speed session, whilst managing injury risk.

    It really is that simple.

    Except there's no need to go to 18 miles per week when 12 is more than sufficient. Which can easily include a speed session.

    Your advice is consistently both nonapplicable and unhelpful for casual and recreational runners.

    In your opinion, of course.

    Personally I'll stick with advice that's founded in coaching principles, for recreational short distance runners. 18 miles is only three hours worth of running.

    When well meaning people post nonsense advice, in quite comfortable challenging it.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    MeanderingMammal wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I appreciate that your ivory tower position is that everyone should want to run 30 miles a week and 3-4 marathons a year.

    The originator wants to improve her 5K time. Moving from 9 miles per week to 18 miles per week, of easy paced running, will do that. If she wants to make more improvement moving up to 24 miles per week would make that viable by adding a speed session, whilst managing injury risk.

    It really is that simple.

    Except there's no need to go to 18 miles per week when 12 is more than sufficient. Which can easily include a speed session.

    Your advice is consistently both nonapplicable and unhelpful for casual and recreational runners.

    In your opinion, of course.

    Personally I'll stick with advice that's founded in coaching principles, for recreational short distance runners. 18 miles is only three hours worth of running.

    When well meaning people post nonsense advice, in quite comfortable challenging it.

    Me too.
  • navygrrl
    navygrrl Posts: 517 Member
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    Well, 18 miles would take me 4 hours, because I'm slow. B)

    OP, I'm where you are. I've made one run each week my long run, and am gradually increasing that each week while keeping my other runs shorter. I've found that my shorter runs are just naturally getting faster.

    That's just my personal experience, and I'm still a newbie.
  • nowine4me
    nowine4me Posts: 3,985 Member
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    This might already be in this long thread, but try using map my run set up to alert you to pace every quarter mile. If your mind drifts and your pace slows, you'll know to speed up.
  • caramel827
    caramel827 Posts: 163 Member
    edited September 2017
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    Wow- the different viewpoints really give a lot to think about! And yes, I am absolutely a casual runner. I am actually more of a walker- yep I'm the person you want to move out the way when you are racing lol. I started walking a year ago, running in March with finally completing a 5K in August. (As one poster stated with family and work I was making time for it but probably not enough). Tomorrow I'm signed up for a 4 miler which I will probably run some and walk some.
    I do think there is something to the distance thing. I remember thinking I could never ever walk 5K. I just did a 10K and I'm signed up for a 15K in a month.

    But running... well the thought of running that length gives me chills lol but I do think there is something to adding distance also adding speed. I'm going to keep at it and listen to my body as someone suggested.

    I think I am still in a complete versus compete mode but I will compete against myself only for now!

    Thanks so much for all the advice- keep it coming!
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited September 2017
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    caramel827 wrote: »
    Wow- the different viewpoints really give a lot to think about! And yes, I am absolutely a casual runner. I am actually more of a walker

    I thought it might be useful to give a bit of context to some of the advice. On this side of the pond there are two routes for coaches to train in; on-track and off-track. Off track has three levels of training, two of which are largely aimed at coaching casual or recreational runners. The Leader in Running and Walking Fitness, and Leader in Running Fitness are pretty much aimed at guiding new runners to 5K, improving pace at short distances of up to 10K. Coach in Running Fitness would prepare someone to design bespoke training plans and guide at longer distances.

    Much of the advice upthread is straight out of the LiRF playbook.

    I'd also add that there is nothing wrong with using a run/ walk method. A friend does that at all her races, and runs regular marathons and ultras.

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