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Do you think there is any nutritional advantage to eating organic foods to justify the higher cost?

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Replies

  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    Long, but awesome booklet on organic agriculture, what it is and history of it.
    http://orgprints.org/14043/1/14043.pdf
  • emailmehere1122
    emailmehere1122 Posts: 140 Member
    edited September 2017
    @Tacklewasher
    I'm sure the yield per acre is lower for organic but everything has its pros and cons. All we can do is make the best choices we can

    As far as gmo foods go I think most all foods have been modified in one way or another. If I have a choice between organic,conventional or a gmo that has a pesticide built into it I'll go with organic...if I can't get organic conventional will do because the end product isn't hugely different. I think for now I'll walk away from built in pesticides....imo the jury is still out on that one
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    edited September 2017
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.

    I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member



    @Tacklewasher
    Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.

    Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    Macy9336 wrote: »


    @Tacklewasher
    Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.

    Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.

    anything you didn't copy-paste from the pamphlet?
  • meganpettigrew86
    meganpettigrew86 Posts: 349 Member
    In new zealand it is very expensive to get an organic certification so I don't bother as I only produce for myself and a small local market once a month.
    I'm technically organic aside from fact I use a weed killer. I do notice a difference in my free range eggs to non free range or even commercial free range. My yolks are more yellow and the eggs are bigger and tastier. The big difference is the fact they have grass available to them all day every day and there are only 50 of them.
    I don't use sprays as it is less efficient than simply growing plants that do the job for me. Why spray for bugs when you can attract other bugs to take care of the problem. Marigolds are awesome they are my number one go to. But even the pittosporums I have grown for shelter attract useful insects.
    I had a couple pigs, they are now in the freezer along side a lot of lamb, I know everyone does not get the luxury of space but it kicks as when you can. We are growing a large amount of pumpkins this year so we don't have to buy pig food, it brings down the cost tenfold. Although with pigs, a few months before butchering it is best to feed the specific things to get a great taste, anyone that has hunted wild bore can contest to that!
    Not sure what it's like overseas, but we can hit the mountains and hunt and come back with a pack for of wild meat from thar, shami, deer, pig... can't get more free range than that!
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.

    DJyB9EsVoAABO9A.jpg

    DJyCeJuVAAAh2SV.jpg
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.

    DJyB9EsVoAABO9A.jpg

    DJyCeJuVAAAh2SV.jpg

    And look at us now. All fat.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »


    @Tacklewasher
    Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.

    Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.

    anything you didn't copy-paste from the pamphlet?

    None of the above was copy/pasted from the pamphlet I posted.
  • BunnyDish
    BunnyDish Posts: 19 Member
    @meganpettigrew86 I completely agree! NZ vegetables are expensive. In fact foods in general are expensive in NZ. I'm surprised how much of my monthly budget now goes to groceries... It never used to be that much! We've had to work strategically to get it down.

    That's essentially why I started growing vegetables here as well. We are getting 3 hens this spring also, which should more than keep us in free range eggs. I don't eat meat but I'm looking forward to getting back to fishing this summer too. It saved me another small fortune last summer and MY GOD is easy to catch fish here lol! Mind you in saying that I'm not bothering to surf cast anymore... using a little inflatable to get out on the deeper quiet water seems to work where I live. :)
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    JustRobby1 wrote: »
    Or is it mainly just marketing and advertising?

    this is really the worst site ever to pose anything health related. you'll get so many ppl ignorant to health.. keep the posts to carbs and calories.. anything else and their heads will explode..

    Quite possibly the most ironic post I've seen today.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.

    DJyB9EsVoAABO9A.jpg

    DJyCeJuVAAAh2SV.jpg

    You are forgetting that organic farming is within those charts along with conventional farming. Organic farming is actually pretty high tech.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.

    I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.

    I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.

    Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78

    I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.

    IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.
  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.

    DJyB9EsVoAABO9A.jpg

    DJyCeJuVAAAh2SV.jpg

    And look at us now. All fat.

    yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
    ? People are still starving to death even though the world population is 7 billion and we produce enough food to feed 10 billion. Food production is no longer the problem. Access and distribution is.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.

    I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.

    I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.

    Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78

    I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.

    IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.

    I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.

    DJyB9EsVoAABO9A.jpg

    DJyCeJuVAAAh2SV.jpg

    And look at us now. All fat.

    yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.

    Was that a big problem 50 years ago?

    I mean it's a problem in some areas still, but not so much in the US.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.

    I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.

    I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.

    Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78

    I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.

    IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.

    I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.

    Hmm. I haven't noticed anything off about grass fed (unsurprising in that I said I like it and usually get it), but tastes are obviously different.

    (I also love cilantro.) ;-)
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    crazyravr wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    mlrtri wrote: »
    I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.

    even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.

    I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.

    I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.

    I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.

    I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.

    Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78

    I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.

    IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.

    I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.

    Grass-fed took off after I went vegan, so I have never had it but my husband hates the taste of it and describes it similarly to how you do.