Do you include/count calories from fruits &a veggies?
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Log EVERYTHING, Become AWARE of what you are eating and how much. WW is not counting calories the traditional way. Their program works but it is a different way of counting points based on sugar, fiber, protein, etc... you are almost rewarded for making healthier choices on their new plan and junk is very high points to discourage. CHOOSE WISELY. WHAT DO YOU WANT? You can do this!1
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Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.7 -
I log absolutely everything whether it's 1 pounds or 20. It just helps me keep at it so I know every meal I gotta track. I have a bad memory, so it helps me keep in a routine!0
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Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
I think the responses here have been a pretty decent mix of "yes I count everything always" and "I don't really see the point because the calories are so few." In the end, the results will tell the person whether they should or not.2 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
What does that have to do with this thread? Who are you arguing with? This thread has nothing to do with how long someone calorie counts, veganism, or maintenance. You are the only one talking about any of this in this thread (other than a couple of posters who made the point that since they are vegan, they eat hundreds of calories of fruits and veggies so of course they log them).8 -
sometimes I eat 150 cal of veggies, so yes count everything0
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alexiam1493 wrote: »Hey all I am trying to lose weight. I was part of weight watchers, which was working, but then I fell off the wagon and I'm trying the calorie counting approach. In weight watchers I was allowed to eat as many fruits & veggies and they were "0 points" so I'm wondering, how important is it to count fruits and veggie calories in this method (My fitness pal)?
Thanks!
Absolutely, log everything with calories.2 -
I weigh everything At home and do my best outside of the home. Just to add another method of balance, on days where I am unsure of some of my entries, I take a 20 min walk and don't log it, or do 5 min of jumping jacks and don't log it. I figure it helps give me the benefit of the doubt if I make some errors.1
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Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
Once again, there is no such thing as a "mostly plant-based vegan diet." I'm not sure what is failing to connect here, but I recommend you stop using veganism as a way to express your bias against calorie counting until you fully understand what it is.13 -
Yep!! If it passes these lips... I don't want it back on these hips, ever
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eliciaobrien1 wrote: »Fruit I weigh, veggies I guesstimate. Unless it's frozen vegetables they have quite a bit of calories.
Is this true? Do Frozen veg "have quite a bit of calories"??
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eliciaobrien1 wrote: »Fruit I weigh, veggies I guesstimate. Unless it's frozen vegetables they have quite a bit of calories.
Is this true? Do Frozen veg "have quite a bit of calories"??
Freezing doesn't add calories, they'd have as many as their unfrozen equivalent.6 -
I weigh all...but not a single lettuce leaf , if it's a huge bunch then yes, but not one. Fruits surely cos dat sugar, I use my digital scale0
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0
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Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
Once again, there is no such thing as a "mostly plant-based vegan diet." I'm not sure what is failing to connect here, but I recommend you stop using veganism as a way to express your bias against calorie counting until you fully understand what it is.
If you eat a plant-based vegan diet, but you eat fish twice a month, it is a "mostly plant-based vegan diet." How else are you supposed to describe it?
I have no bias against calorie counting. I told you it works.
Eating fish once or twice a month is not a vegan diet. Not at all. That's what you aren't getting. Vegans eat and use no animal products. So saying you are vegan if you only eat animal products a few times a month is not correct, ever. Just take the word 'vegan' out. This has nothing to do with veganism. Nothing at all.11 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
What does that have to do with this thread? Who are you arguing with? This thread has nothing to do with how long someone calorie counts, veganism, or maintenance. You are the only one talking about any of this in this thread (other than a couple of posters who made the point that since they are vegan, they eat hundreds of calories of fruits and veggies so of course they log them).
The post is called, "Do you include/count calories from fruits &a veggies?" I started off by saying, no I do not (or did not) count calories from veggies. And it evolved into this.
What is the big deal? I have emphatically said that calorie counting works! BUT, it does not have to be something that is done for a lifetime (in my case it was less than two months).
As kimny said, this thread is not about how long one should calorie count (that differs person to person and depends in part on preferences). It is about IF you are calorie counting, do you count veg and fruit.
Personally, since I don't see counting as just about calories, I include vegetables (and obv. fruit) when I am doing it. Also, on a good day I'd have lots of calories from vegetables, and I try to make most days good. Would it work if I did not count them? I'm sure, you do what WW does and have a lower overall goal, but my information would be inaccurate and the fun of logging for me, the only thing that really motivates me to do it, is being able to play with the data and know, say, how many carbs I am consuming, how much fiber, so on. (This is also why I find it easier to log on Cronometer, in part, since that gives me better data.)3 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?
Vegans (plant-based diet) say you can't be healthy unless you eat a 100% plant-based diet. Calorie counters tell newbies that 100% of the food and drink consumed must be counted. Both notions are false.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a plant-based vegan diet, and nothing wrong with counting every calorie. It's just that very few people will even try to do either one.
So vegans should be happy convincing people to be mainly vegan (plant based diet + some animal fats), and calorie counters should be happy convincing people to count most calories, or at least develop an awareness of calories.
I doubt most people having their morning bagel with low-fat cream cheese, a 12-ounce orange juice, and coffee with two or three sugars, have a clue to how many calories they are consuming. They need to know if they want to lose weight.
Continuing to bring up veganism is making your argument weaker, not stronger, especially since you are getting some key concepts wrong.
Here is the concept:
- I started calorie counting. I did it faithfully for about six weeks (other than salad greens). It worked.
- After six weeks, I started to fall of the calorie counting wagon. I continued to lose weight.
- After about ten weeks I totally stopped counting and continued to lose weight.
- Withing nine months I met my goal. I have maintained the weight without counting calories.
My point is that calorie counting can be a short-term exercise. In those first couple of months of calorie counting, you learn what you can and can't eat to meet your goal. After that time (at least for me), there was no longer a need to count. I disliked counting.;
There are too many posts here suggesting that you calorie count for life. That is a complete turnoff to most people. They won't even try.
The correlation to veganism is the similar turnoff. The vast, vast majority of people would NEVER try a 100% plant-based vegan diet. But they might consider a mostly plant-based vegan diet.
There you go.
Once again, there is no such thing as a "mostly plant-based vegan diet." I'm not sure what is failing to connect here, but I recommend you stop using veganism as a way to express your bias against calorie counting until you fully understand what it is.
If you eat a plant-based vegan diet, but you eat fish twice a month, it is a "mostly plant-based vegan diet." How else are you supposed to describe it?
If you MUST describe it, mostly plant based will do.
I sometimes listen to a vegan podcast, and they were talking about (and mocking a little) some proposed terms for "vegans" who want to sometimes eat eggs (veggans) and who sometimes eat fish and other seafood (seagans).
I think this is verging on the ridiculous, though.1
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