On a Keto journey - things I should know?
lalykamp
Posts: 7 Member
I've been researching on this diet and I'm hoping to see great results in my weight loss journey which I'm starting today. However, I don't know anyone personally who went through this journey and I need some honest advice. Thanks in advance
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Replies
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You should know that keto isn't necessary for weight loss, a calorie deficit is. Eating very, very low carb is fine if that suits your tastes, preferences and lifestyle, but I find it too restrictive and means I can't enjoy foods I like.9
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First thing to know is that, in and of itself, it does not result in any faster weight loss than any other method at the same calorie deficit. You'll get an initial big drop in scale weight from water loss, but that's it.
That said, some people find it helps with satiety (not feeling hungry) and cravings. If the foods you will be eating on keto appeal to you, then by all means give it a go.
Many people experience what is known as 'keto flu' in the first couple of weeks, basically you feel awful. This is largely caused by electrolytes getting out of whack with the big water loss, supplementing with extra sodium helps.
Also be aware that many people report having horrible, horrible bad breath when doing keto.10 -
Check out the group "Low Carbers Daily Forum" on here. Super helpful.6
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I have been doing keto for 2 weeks. Here a simplified version. The goal of keto is to get into ketosis not to be confused with the diabetic kedoacidosis. So we want to switch the body from running on glucose and have it run on fat. The keto macro I go for is 75% fat 20% protein 5% carbs. Everybody is a bit different and will enter ketosis a bit different but if you stay under 20 net carbs a day will get you there. To much protein will also get converted into glucose so be careful of that. To loose weight you have to consume fewer calories than your body burns no matter what diet you do. There is a lot of resources on the net that let you believe you can eat until you are full on this diet and not worry about calories. That can be really bad if you trying to loose weight.
The first week was ruff, then I have been slowly feeling better everyday. I have a friend that said his keto flu lasted 3 weeks. I don't find it to restrictive at all and the food I have been eating is tasty and do not feel deprived at all. Every diet is restrictive in some way or another. The hardest part was finding recipes and putting together a meal plan that fits my macros.
There are lots of health benefits to doing keto and you will learn that much of what we were taught was not accurate. You can find plenty of sites and books to explain these. The keto diet may not be right for everybody like where you need quick bursts of speed (sprinter) or a body builder, etc. Keto is great for some with type 2 diabetes or has lots of weight to loose. Always talk to your doctor if have concerns or certain issues. Out of the multiple diets I have tried I am really enjoying this one the most. Just Stick to your macros and you should be fine.
Drink lots of water and increase your sodium and take magnesium and potassium to help with the flu.
Best of Luck on your Keto journy!
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Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
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You guys are awesome thank you so much1
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River Goddess brings up a good point. You do not really eat tons of fat and when you do try to pick healthy fats. A gram of fat is 9 calories while a gram of carbs/protein is 4 calories. A little bit of fat goes along way. when I eat fatty stuff I still eat a portion of it like everything else. A tablespoon of butter, 1 or 2 strips of bacon, 1 ounce of cheese,1 sometimes 2 tablespoon of oil depending on what I am doing. Just don't go crazy with the stuff. I have another friend doing keto and just eats lots of fat and think it's ok because it doesn't have carbs. Then he wonders why he is not loosing weight. This is why I keep track of macros, I have a hard time doing any diet for long if I don't keep a close track. Right now I'm suppose to be at about 2100 calories and yesterday I had 1600 calories and felt fine. I like the idea of running off of my own fat and not feeling deprived.
Always read the labels. I was shocked on how so many products sneak sugars into their products. You want the majority of the carbs to come from leafy greens and veggies.
Just experiment at what times to eat and with the size of the meal to see what is best for you.4 -
Everyone is different. A simple calorie deficit eating plan like WW was *very* slow for me. With few cheats it took me 2 years to lose 25 pounds (180 to 155). I maintained for a year with 2 pounds gained. I started keto in mid-August and have lost 12 pounds (157 to 145 - height 5'4"). I have few cravings and rarely feel hungry between meals. Lost inches are even more significant than lost pounds. In August I wore a snug size 14, and I am now comfortably fitting into size 10. My macros are 10% carb/ 25% protein / 65% fat, and I try to stay under 1300 calories. If you try keto, the important thing is to stay under your carb net limit. Meet your protein goal - you need it for energy and to avoid losing muscle. Eat fats as needed to feel full. You don't need to reach your fat goal - don't eat if you aren't hungry. Keto isn't for everyone; however, if traditional low-fat, calorie deficit diets haven't worked for you in the past, this way of eating may feel like a miracle.5
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River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This isn't really true. Your body will use body fat for fuel secondary to all ingested calories. Body fat loss is a function of a calorie deficit regardless of macro breakdown. I will lose as much body fat eating moderate carb at the same calorie level as if I was eating keto.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This isn't really true. Your body will use body fat for fuel secondary to all ingested calories. Body fat loss is a function of a calorie deficit regardless of macro breakdown. I will lose as much body fat eating moderate carb at the same calorie level as if I was eating keto.
This. You'll be burning more DIETARY fat on Keto.2 -
Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.7 -
Nope, the "metabolic advantage" myth has been busted multiple times.Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(17)30152-X/fulltext
"our meta-analysis of 32 controlled feeding studies with isocaloric substitution of carbohydrate for fat found that both energy expenditure (26 kcal/d; P <.0001) and fat loss (16 g/d; P <.0001) were greater with lower fat diets."
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russelljam08 wrote: »
Nope, the "metabolic advantage" myth has been busted multiple times.Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(17)30152-X/fulltext
"our meta-analysis of 32 controlled feeding studies with isocaloric substitution of carbohydrate for fat found that both energy expenditure (26 kcal/d; P <.0001) and fat loss (16 g/d; P <.0001) were greater with lower fat diets."
No no. I did not say there was a metabolic advantage, I said the body's need for glucose falls. It is not a large amount but it does. For example, the brain appears to use about 120-150g of glucose a day (I believe the numbers are) but after becoming fat adapted the need for glucose falls to about 40g.
Fuel needs change slightly based on diet. I did not say you burn more calories on a LCHF diet, I said that you burn more calories as fat... And yes, it will be dietary fat if you are not eating at a deficit.6 -
russelljam08 wrote: »
Nope, the "metabolic advantage" myth has been busted multiple times.Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(17)30152-X/fulltext
"our meta-analysis of 32 controlled feeding studies with isocaloric substitution of carbohydrate for fat found that both energy expenditure (26 kcal/d; P <.0001) and fat loss (16 g/d; P <.0001) were greater with lower fat diets."
No no. I did not say there was a metabolic advantage, I said the body's need for glucose falls. It is not a large amount but it does. For example, the brain appears to use about 120-150g of glucose a day (I believe the numbers are) but after becoming fat adapted the need for glucose falls to about 40g.
Fuel needs change slightly based on diet. I did not say you burn more calories on a LCHF diet, I said that you burn more calories as fat... And yes, it will be dietary fat if you are not eating at a deficit.
The amount of body fat used for fuel is the exact same regardless of macros. Dietary fat amount makes zero difference. Ingested fat does not dictate level of body fat used. It's a really weird assertion. What happens to those not eating keto? What is the body turning to in order to compensate for the calorie deficit? Spoiler: body fat, just the same as those of you who choose to eat keto.
You are making it sound like there's some superior use of body fat or that eating too much fat reduces the ability of the body to use body fat as a fuel source or that using carbs as a fuel source before body fat is somehow bad. All of which is patently untrue.5 -
Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
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VintageFeline wrote: »russelljam08 wrote: »
Nope, the "metabolic advantage" myth has been busted multiple times.Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(17)30152-X/fulltext
"our meta-analysis of 32 controlled feeding studies with isocaloric substitution of carbohydrate for fat found that both energy expenditure (26 kcal/d; P <.0001) and fat loss (16 g/d; P <.0001) were greater with lower fat diets."
No no. I did not say there was a metabolic advantage, I said the body's need for glucose falls. It is not a large amount but it does. For example, the brain appears to use about 120-150g of glucose a day (I believe the numbers are) but after becoming fat adapted the need for glucose falls to about 40g.
Fuel needs change slightly based on diet. I did not say you burn more calories on a LCHF diet, I said that you burn more calories as fat... And yes, it will be dietary fat if you are not eating at a deficit.
The amount of body fat used for fuel is the exact same regardless of macros. Dietary fat amount makes zero difference. Ingested fat does not dictate level of body fat used. It's a really weird assertion. What happens to those not eating keto? What is the body turning to in order to compensate for the calorie deficit? Spoiler: body fat, just the same as those of you who choose to eat keto.
You are making it sound like there's some superior use of body fat or that eating too much fat reduces the ability of the body to use body fat as a fuel source or that using carbs as a fuel source before body fat is somehow bad. All of which is patently untrue.
I guess I did not make myself clear. Those who are fat adapted will burn the same calories as when not fat adapted but a greater percentage of those calories burned will be from fat, whether dietary or body fat when fat adapted. In those who are fat adapted, less glucose is required because fat or ketones becomes the primary fuel. previously believed minimum glucose needs are reduced.
An extreme example: someone who switches to a zero carb, carnivorous diet will have their body make 150g of glucose via gluconeogenesis for required glucose needs by organs like the brain or RBCs. After three months, that person may only need to make 60 g of glucose because the body's glucose needs have changed. What has not changed is that the person's TDEE. If it was 2200 kcal when they started, it is 2200 kcal after three months, assuming no weight, activity, fitness, or health changes.
Keto is not magic and will not cause more calories to be burned, just a larger percentage of the burned calories are some sort of fat.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
I guess I was not very clear in my thinking at all.
By more body fat burned, I was just thinking of what the body makes for fuel when fuel is in short supply. I someone who is not fat adapted, I imagine their body would be looking for glucose fuel sources - glycogen or using gluconeogenesis. In someone who is fat adapted, they need less glucose and glucose is no longer the primary fuel so fat and ketones will be turned to as a fuel more readily.
If eating the same calories and the same deficit, those who are fat adapted and those who are glucose burners should lose the same weight. Their bodies will just get there using slightly different pathways.1 -
I think it also came off that you thought using more fat for energy, dietary and body, was in some way superior to any other substrate utilisation. Which also isn't true. Depends on goals and needs.0
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
I guess I was not very clear in my thinking at all.
By more body fat burned, I was just thinking of what the body makes for fuel when fuel is in short supply. I someone who is not fat adapted, I imagine their body would be looking for glucose fuel sources - glycogen or using gluconeogenesis. In someone who is fat adapted, they need less glucose and glucose is no longer the primary fuel so fat and ketones will be turned to as a fuel more readily.
If eating the same calories and the same deficit, those who are fat adapted and those who are glucose burners should lose the same weight. Their bodies will just get there using slightly different pathways.
The glycogen used will be replenished later from dietary carbs. Those carbs won't be used for fuel, instead going for body fat.
Also 60% of energy needs at rest are fueled by fat in a normal person.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
I guess I was not very clear in my thinking at all.
By more body fat burned, I was just thinking of what the body makes for fuel when fuel is in short supply. I someone who is not fat adapted, I imagine their body would be looking for glucose fuel sources - glycogen or using gluconeogenesis. In someone who is fat adapted, they need less glucose and glucose is no longer the primary fuel so fat and ketones will be turned to as a fuel more readily.
If eating the same calories and the same deficit, those who are fat adapted and those who are glucose burners should lose the same weight. Their bodies will just get there using slightly different pathways.
The glycogen used will be replenished later from dietary carbs. Those carbs won't be used for fuel, instead going for body fat.
Also 60% of energy needs at rest are fueled by fat in a normal person.
I agree, if carbs are being eaten.
I also agree that 60% of energy needs are fueled by fat in a non-fat adapted person.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
I guess I was not very clear in my thinking at all.
By more body fat burned, I was just thinking of what the body makes for fuel when fuel is in short supply. I someone who is not fat adapted, I imagine their body would be looking for glucose fuel sources - glycogen or using gluconeogenesis. In someone who is fat adapted, they need less glucose and glucose is no longer the primary fuel so fat and ketones will be turned to as a fuel more readily.
If eating the same calories and the same deficit, those who are fat adapted and those who are glucose burners should lose the same weight. Their bodies will just get there using slightly different pathways.
The glycogen used will be replenished later from dietary carbs. Those carbs won't be used for fuel, instead going for body fat.
Also 60% of energy needs at rest are fueled by fat in a normal person.
I agree, if carbs are being eaten.
I also agree that 60% of energy needs are fueled by fat in a non-fat adapted person.
EVERYONE is fat adapted.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »russelljam08 wrote: »
Nope, the "metabolic advantage" myth has been busted multiple times.Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(17)30152-X/fulltext
"our meta-analysis of 32 controlled feeding studies with isocaloric substitution of carbohydrate for fat found that both energy expenditure (26 kcal/d; P <.0001) and fat loss (16 g/d; P <.0001) were greater with lower fat diets."
No no. I did not say there was a metabolic advantage, I said the body's need for glucose falls. It is not a large amount but it does. For example, the brain appears to use about 120-150g of glucose a day (I believe the numbers are) but after becoming fat adapted the need for glucose falls to about 40g.
Fuel needs change slightly based on diet. I did not say you burn more calories on a LCHF diet, I said that you burn more calories as fat... And yes, it will be dietary fat if you are not eating at a deficit.
The amount of body fat used for fuel is the exact same regardless of macros. Dietary fat amount makes zero difference. Ingested fat does not dictate level of body fat used. It's a really weird assertion. What happens to those not eating keto? What is the body turning to in order to compensate for the calorie deficit? Spoiler: body fat, just the same as those of you who choose to eat keto.
You are making it sound like there's some superior use of body fat or that eating too much fat reduces the ability of the body to use body fat as a fuel source or that using carbs as a fuel source before body fat is somehow bad. All of which is patently untrue.
I guess I did not make myself clear. Those who are fat adapted will burn the same calories as when not fat adapted but a greater percentage of those calories burned will be from fat, whether dietary or body fat when fat adapted. In those who are fat adapted, less glucose is required because fat or ketones becomes the primary fuel. previously believed minimum glucose needs are reduced.
An extreme example: someone who switches to a zero carb, carnivorous diet will have their body make 150g of glucose via gluconeogenesis for required glucose needs by organs like the brain or RBCs. After three months, that person may only need to make 60 g of glucose because the body's glucose needs have changed. What has not changed is that the person's TDEE. If it was 2200 kcal when they started, it is 2200 kcal after three months, assuming no weight, activity, fitness, or health changes.
Keto is not magic and will not cause more calories to be burned, just a larger percentage of the burned calories are some sort of fat.
In short, if you eat more fat you burn that fat. If you eat more carbs you burn those carbs. The amount of body fat burned remains same in both cases if calorie intake is the same.
So calorie in calorie out is all that matters for weight loss. Keto gives some flu, headaches, etc and is more restrictive than CICO deficit diet.
Thank you.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here is the link for the Low Carber Daily group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group They are a great bunch who know this diet inside and out.River_Goddess wrote: »Also, you do not need tons of fat. Fat bombs and fatty coffee and smothering everything in oil is unnecessary. If you are burning fat for fuel, use body fat first, then dietary fat second. You will add more fat to your diet later, when you are at maintainence and not wanting your body to use it's fat stores for fuel.
In the meantime, look at it like this: carbs are a maximum cap, protein is a goal, and you only need to eat enough fat to feel full and stay satisfied between meals. If you're hungry in the day, add more fat. Otherwise, let your body fat stores be your fuel
This is pretty spot on. If you are losing weight you do not want to eat too much fat (calories) because you want to use body fat first. If your body needs 2000 kcals a day to function, you may want to eat only 1500 kcal a day with (for example) about 100g of fat (900 kcals) with under 50g of carbs (200 kcal) and about 100g of protein (400kcal). That allows you to use 500kcal of body fat for energy each day. When you are at maintenance, you can then increase fats to 1400kcal (or about 155g) each day.
You will be burning more dietary fat for fuel, but after becoming fat adapted (a few months of ketosis) the body uses a bit less glucose for fuel - it's glucose requirements drops a bit. You will be burning more dietary fat, but also more body fat and less glucose if compared to someone with the same caloric intake and needs.
My advice is to make sure you are getting 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to avoid an electrolyte imbalance (which some call keto flu). That's about 2 teaspoons of salt a day.
This is where you said you'd be burning more fat and how the study showing that low fat diets equating calories and protein were better at burning body fat refuted the point (the point I bolded for you) you made.
Hope this helps.
I guess I was not very clear in my thinking at all.
By more body fat burned, I was just thinking of what the body makes for fuel when fuel is in short supply. I someone who is not fat adapted, I imagine their body would be looking for glucose fuel sources - glycogen or using gluconeogenesis. In someone who is fat adapted, they need less glucose and glucose is no longer the primary fuel so fat and ketones will be turned to as a fuel more readily.
If eating the same calories and the same deficit, those who are fat adapted and those who are glucose burners should lose the same weight. Their bodies will just get there using slightly different pathways.
The glycogen used will be replenished later from dietary carbs. Those carbs won't be used for fuel, instead going for body fat.
Also 60% of energy needs at rest are fueled by fat in a normal person.
I agree, if carbs are being eaten.
I also agree that 60% of energy needs are fueled by fat in a non-fat adapted person.
No, the net amount of body fat burned doesn't matter if you're "fat adapted" or not. Your energy balance is what controls how much net body fat you're going to burn.
Do note that he said at rest, though. And it's true. When we're not at rest, we cycle through substrates that we've eaten (being simplistic here). If you're keto, you're going to be burning more dietary fat because that's what you've eaten.2
This discussion has been closed.
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