Hypothyroidism; Catabolic Exercise
Replies
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Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Are you perhaps thinking of overexercising and undernourishing contributing to a lowering of thyroid function?
No. I'm thinking by increasing my muscle mass I'll increase my Basal Metabolic Rate...which I've done successfully in the last 30 days...just gotta maintain over the next 30 years lol.
You won't have increased your muscle mass in any significant way in 30 days!
And muscle uses a very small amount of calories per day to maintain itself (c. 6 cals per pound per day).
You would be doing well to add 10lbs of muscle in a year to add 60 cals to your BMR.
There's many good reasons to add muscle of course but you need to be realistic.
Shame I can't add pictures I could show you my Boditrax BMR from 1575 to 1620. Muscle mass from 51.8kg to 53.5kg. I exercise 5 days a week. HIIT cardio with wieghts and Plyometrics.
That's a change in hydration not muscle.
Those machines measure electrical resistance in your body, they can't actually measure your body composition let alone BMR.
I have some that tell me I'm 33% BF.
There's a separate measurement for hydration.
Yeah - but it's almost definitely inaccurate, too. IOW: ignore the readings completely.2 -
My (treated) hypothyroidism didn't cause any unusual difficulty in weight loss or weight maintenance compared to people with normal thyroid function, as far as I can see. And I've been very active for just slightly less time (15 years) than I've been hyothyroid (16 years), and never had any particular difficulty getting stronger or fitter. Y'know, except having to work for it.
A few years into treatment, when I needed a dosage adjustment, one of the symptoms was a small effect on weight management, but once the dose adjustment was made, I was back to normal in a few weeks.
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In your case better to go to doctor for medical examination. I had the same problem after weight loss and fitness trainings. I went to the private clinic with new medical equipment like this https://bimedis.com/search/search-items/endoscopy-equipment and had some medical tests. Also doctor prescribe me some treatment course.-1
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Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Are you perhaps thinking of overexercising and undernourishing contributing to a lowering of thyroid function?
No. I'm thinking by increasing my muscle mass I'll increase my Basal Metabolic Rate...which I've done successfully in the last 30 days...just gotta maintain over the next 30 years lol.
You won't have increased your muscle mass in any significant way in 30 days!
And muscle uses a very small amount of calories per day to maintain itself (c. 6 cals per pound per day).
You would be doing well to add 10lbs of muscle in a year to add 60 cals to your BMR.
There's many good reasons to add muscle of course but you need to be realistic.
Shame I can't add pictures I could show you my Boditrax BMR from 1575 to 1620. Muscle mass from 51.8kg to 53.5kg. I exercise 5 days a week. HIIT cardio with wieghts and Plyometrics.
That's a change in hydration not muscle.
Those machines measure electrical resistance in your body, they can't actually measure your body composition let alone BMR.
I have some that tell me I'm 33% BF.
There's a separate measurement for hydration.
It may give you a separate number but that's not the same as measurement.
Measurement would require dissection. Which is a trifle extreme!
All body composition estimation methods have a range of inaccuracy and your method has a very wide range of inaccuracy.3 -
Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Thank you all for your responses, it's been insightful. I've decided to invest my hard earned cash on the suite of thyroid blood tests, I may be opening a can of worms as I may not necessarily be able to afford the drugs, but we'll see.Treadmillmom1st wrote: »
You've been diagnosed and it's being treated, but you have not yet had bloodwork done and may not be able to afford the meds?
So which is it, you've been tested/treated, or not? Who diagnosed you if you have not had the tests done?1 -
FYI levothyroxine is pretty cheap - 30 days supply runs ~15-60 USD depending on brand and potency. If you are not insured every branded label manufacturer has an income based plan for those with limited income.1
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Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
I gained weight when I was first diagnosed. They took out half my thyroid and put me on synthroid. I lost 10 pounds almost right away and was pretty thin afterwards. ( this is back when I was a teenager) ... today I'm 27 and at a health weight. I'm very thankful for the surgery.
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From a shear physics standpoint, how can you gain weight if your body doesn't have the resources to create the fat in the first place? I imagine for people with thyroid issues the calorie number will change, but ultimately the CICO process is foolproof once you find the right balance. You can't get fatter if your body doesn't have anything with which to build the fat.3
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asviles - that's all you know. People who are dealing with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, who are dealing with the acquired digestive and related issues are far beyond the cico level of taking care of themselves. It messes with the metabolism and the longer you have it without help the worse it gets. I've seen some who gain on 900c even doing exercise! It messes with the metabolism, big time!
Few are who are hypo due to dietary insufficiency unless they have tried to stick to cico under those recommended here in the mistaken belief cico is king for years, or the best part of a life time. Being hypo from a surgical intervention is very different to having Hashimoto's which is an autoimmune problem. The immune system mistakes by molecule mimicry, scientific term, the fragments of food which make their way into the blood stream from the digestive tract as alien but these fragments can be mistaken for thyroid tissue, so not only does the immune system try to wipe out the invaders but also one's thyroid gland with these antibodies. It is also possible for other tissues to be the subject of attack. The foods which prompt antibody production may also set up food intolerances, as can the loss of digestive enzymes because of vitamin and mineral deficiencies due to compromised digestion and absorption of foods!
Here in the UK Doctors are not permitted to test for antibodies as a matter of course, the powers that be see no reason to eliminate these antibodies. They also do not accept Hashimoto's presents with NORMAL thyroid numbers, which is why many people end up needing more than t4 supplements.
I recently discovered levothyroxine restricts if not blocks the production of DAO histaminase, its essential for the elimination of histamine, I have not found the base science for this, this search engine would see it very low priority against the simple stuff. This is important to me because due to me thyroid condition, I'm now histamine intolerant which is often a parallel problem with the hashimoto's, there are many others when you scrape the surface of thyroid related problems. The longer one struggles with your symptoms the more issues you can have.
You may believe thyroid problems are a code for, "can't be bothered to count calories", it is far from it there are many, who are searching for the right combination to help, right now going low carb is looking good, not anything like keto, thank goodness. For many its a life sentence.
Good luck - asvilles - I really hope you never fall fowl of anything thyroid, only then will you know the problems.10 -
From a shear physics standpoint, how can you gain weight if your body doesn't have the resources to create the fat in the first place? I imagine for people with thyroid issues the calorie number will change, but ultimately the CICO process is foolproof once you find the right balance. You can't get fatter if your body doesn't have anything with which to build the fat.
Precisely.
Thyroid has minimal impact on metabolism itself (~5% to Resting Energy Expenditure). What this does is have a massive impact on appetite and satiety triggers, so the untreated tend to eat much more and never feel "full".3 -
From a shear physics standpoint, how can you gain weight if your body doesn't have the resources to create the fat in the first place? I imagine for people with thyroid issues the calorie number will change, but ultimately the CICO process is foolproof once you find the right balance. You can't get fatter if your body doesn't have anything with which to build the fat.
Precisely.
Thyroid has minimal impact on metabolism itself (~5% to Resting Energy Expenditure). What this does is have a massive impact on appetite and satiety triggers, so the untreated tend to eat much more and never feel "full".
^
As much as I wanted to blame my weight gain on some 'thyroid black magic' in the past, it's pretty clear that any time I gain/lose weight it's completely the result of CICO.
And simply getting on meds was not enough to make me lose weight.
I think the 'problem' is only perpetuated by people who fall victim to the mentality that their thyroid is totally responsible for making them fat/impossible to lose weight.
Many who claim they eat 800 calories and still don't lose weight don't actually do as they think they do.
You see this quite often from people with no thyroid conditions as well, check around and you'll see posts.. ("I don't lose weight on 1200 calories!! help!"- but they.. forget.. that they only ate that much 5 days a week and binge the other 2 days, or they aren't logging accurately)3 -
asviles - that's all you know. People who are dealing with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, who are dealing with the acquired digestive and related issues are far beyond the cico level of taking care of themselves. It messes with the metabolism and the longer you have it without help the worse it gets. I've seen some who gain on 900c even doing exercise! It messes with the metabolism, big time!
Few are who are hypo due to dietary insufficiency unless they have tried to stick to cico under those recommended here in the mistaken belief cico is king for years, or the best part of a life time. Being hypo from a surgical intervention is very different to having Hashimoto's which is an autoimmune problem. The immune system mistakes by molecule mimicry, scientific term, the fragments of food which make their way into the blood stream from the digestive tract as alien but these fragments can be mistaken for thyroid tissue, so not only does the immune system try to wipe out the invaders but also one's thyroid gland with these antibodies. It is also possible for other tissues to be the subject of attack. The foods which prompt antibody production may also set up food intolerances, as can the loss of digestive enzymes because of vitamin and mineral deficiencies due to compromised digestion and absorption of foods!
Here in the UK Doctors are not permitted to test for antibodies as a matter of course, the powers that be see no reason to eliminate these antibodies. They also do not accept Hashimoto's presents with NORMAL thyroid numbers, which is why many people end up needing more than t4 supplements.
I recently discovered levothyroxine restricts if not blocks the production of DAO histaminase, its essential for the elimination of histamine, I have not found the base science for this, this search engine would see it very low priority against the simple stuff. This is important to me because due to me thyroid condition, I'm now histamine intolerant which is often a parallel problem with the hashimoto's, there are many others when you scrape the surface of thyroid related problems. The longer one struggles with your symptoms the more issues you can have.
You may believe thyroid problems are a code for, "can't be bothered to count calories", it is far from it there are many, who are searching for the right combination to help, right now going low carb is looking good, not anything like keto, thank goodness. For many its a life sentence.
Good luck - asvilles - I really hope you never fall fowl of anything thyroid, only then will you know the problems.
Got it, so hypothyroidism causes big bangs inside your body which create matter from nothing. Now THAT is cool! So theoretically people with hypothyroidism don't need to eat because they will gain weight no matter how few calories they eat... or do the calories have thyroid babies in their tummies that cause the calories to multiply... pretty sure they mentioned that in Jurassic Park... "Fat finds a wayyyyyy..." *mysterious music*7 -
asvilles- You have got it, exactly. I have read copious numbers of medical papers and yes there are systems at large which in an affected person will cause weight gain, though the weight is probably water and residual toxins. When you lack digestive enzymes you are unable to eat foods with ease as you did in earlier life. Food intolerances are common in the Hashimotos' world, foods which if not broken down correctly enter the blood stream and set up molecule mimicry. If you are not given the best, appropriate treatment for you then this is where you end up.
Hashimoto's in some medical papers is referred to as lymphatic thyroiditis. The lymphatic system is the key way a body removes the products of inflammation. You may remember the childhood tonsillitis problem, many of my age and younger were subjected to tonsillectomies', taking away an essential lymph gland. The role of lymph glands is to breakdown the offending damaged/inflamed cells, when the lymphatic system does not work properly, it does not have a pump, our blood circulates because of the heart. Where a person is less active than they would otherwise would be the lymphatic fluid does not flow to aid the elimination of by-products of cell life. The fluid has to go somewhere as do the by-products.
I strongly believe there are several if not many different causes of thyroid issues. I regret I do not yet understand the reasons for thyroid cancer. I do know for many who do loose their thyroid glands, they can function well with synthetic t4 supplements. I believe this is because they have the ability to make the conversion from t4 to the most useful t3, they may simply maintain a diet which is rich in all the vitamins and minerals the body needs to make these changes where as others are born without the genetic/epigenetics to facilitate such conversions, these people need a t3 supplement to function well. One can buy genetic testing to identify this problem. (Here in the UK t3 is not available because the manufacturers insist on a price which I understand is 6000 % higher than it was years ago. Much higher than the price charged in Europe if I understand it completely)
It is natural for a person to believe their body works as well as anyone else's. I have discovered it is possible for a mother to predispose her child to health issues because she does not pass the full compliment of digestive microbes to her child, male or female, also a child born by C-section is similarly at risk of digestive compromise. This has even been suggested as a contributory factor in Autism.
The most common form of hypothyroidism is Hashimoto's thyroiditis. There are contributory factors to our arriving at this dismal diagnosis, there are medications which compromise the digestive microbiome, antibiotics and pain relief products. Antibiotics are indiscriminate in the microorganisms they eliminate, they not only remove the ones causing the problem you are taking them for, they also make life more difficult for the beneficial microbes which help us digest our food. People who are vitamin B 12 deficient, many of whom are hypothyroid, lack the digestive microbe which facilitates the bodies ability to take the b12 to the point in the digestive tract where it is designed to be taken in. (have you see the list of problems which are related to vit b 12 deficiency?
Turning to pain relief, you know the common aspirin? Do you know it is made to simulate the salicylate plants use to kill of moulds and mildews they encounter in the outside world. When these are ingested in too high levels or for protracted periods they also eliminate the digestive microbes we still need to digest our foods, this leads to greater digestive issues. Maintaining a diet which is low in dietary fibre fails the remaining microbes because they like a more open flow in which to thrive.
I realise many, particularly women come to thyroid problems later in life. I suggest this is in part as the ovaries become less active and eventually fail if they are not removed in a total hysterectomy. I know one of the other functions of the ovaries is the production of t2 thyroid hormone. There is little reference to t2 thyroid hormones in the catalogue. I read the liver is responsible along with elimination of digestive by-products, for the conversion of some t4 to t3 and possibly the conversion of t2 to t4.
The most worrying thing for me is there being some 300 possible symptoms of thyroid related health issues, some are when the thyroid gland is impacted by the over or depleted activity of other endocrine glands. More symptoms are disregarded because they are female related and have always been taken as "normal" by the medical profession. It also worries me that low t3 is a cause of eating disorders and other mental health problems, as well as digestive issues like type2 diabetes, (it is being postulated now that low vit d levels in early childhood can be instrumental in the development of type 1 diabetes) Low t3 is also involved in respiratory/circulatory problems particularly hardening of the arteries, also growth problems in children, reproductive issues, overgrowth of cells leading to cancers in some situations, or cells failing to work as they should. Its even involved in PCOS and insulin resistance and infertility.
True its the interactions of the pituitary, adrenals and other endocrine glands to bring all these issues to a head but living in a country which does not test to understand these interaction is appalling, their being positively discouraged from being responsible. Particularly when in other countries these tests are being considered in combination as normal testing, in their functional medical world which uses the blood tests which should be available in most medical situations.
I believe to highlight weight as the only real thyroid problem is fogging the full range of problems. Most of this is beyond the understanding of many. I have had to read to improve my health. I moved from a position of ignorance to a position of better understanding, keeping up with scientific developments where my doctors are not permitted to go.
Before you offer a comment, please do me the curtesy of reading what I have written and give my scientific information consideration. The best bit is even the scientist say, we do not know everything, yet.11 -
My endocrinologist always told me that eating right and exercise was an excellent way to lose weight. This article is full of it. Sorry you were given false information.1
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I'm wondering, Lcoulter23, if you are referring to my comment above. I am not misinformed, I am perusing science where it leads me. My thyroid status has been faulty for a life time. I have had much longer to acquire additional problems than yourself, thankfully, longer than most of you reading my words. It is my hope that none of you ever go on to contend with the range of health problems I am gradually over coming. If many of you are happy to under go surgery to resolve health problems which are reversible in many circumstances, then so be it. It is my expectation that in the fullness of time what I have written will be commonly accepted.7
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Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
Ah, the infamous snake oil peddler - Izabella Wentz. She is a pharmacist selling the public on her "Thyroid Diet". Beware anyone selling you products, plans, etc. There are two things that mitigate thyroid problems - surgery and medicine.
Wobenzym - over 200 clinical studies with no evidence of effectiveness. Another scam product.
Don't waste your money or time on such nonsense.7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
Ah, the infamous snake oil peddler - Izabella Wentz. She is a pharmacist selling the public on her "Thyroid Diet". Beware anyone selling you products, plans, etc. There are two things that mitigate thyroid problems - surgery and medicine.
Wobenzym - over 200 clinical studies with no evidence of effectiveness. Another scam product.
Don't waste your money or time on such nonsense.
https://google.com/search?q=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS611US612&oq=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I Googled your statement word for word from your post. Was your statement made without reading any research about the effectiveness of Wobenzym or Vitamin D3 on human health concerns? If you have some science related links that supports your opinion please post them.6 -
Why the hell would you Google @CSARdiver statement word for word? That makes absolutely no sense in any way, shape or form. Gale, you are an amateur.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
Ah, the infamous snake oil peddler - Izabella Wentz. She is a pharmacist selling the public on her "Thyroid Diet". Beware anyone selling you products, plans, etc. There are two things that mitigate thyroid problems - surgery and medicine.
Wobenzym - over 200 clinical studies with no evidence of effectiveness. Another scam product.
Don't waste your money or time on such nonsense.
https://google.com/search?q=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS611US612&oq=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I Googled your statement word for word from your post.
Amateur. You know that's not how it works. See a real professional would know that if you make the claim then you provide to proof. So how about you provide the research that shows wobenzym treats hashimotos?Was your statement made without reading any research about the effectiveness of Wobenzym or Vitamin D3 on human health concerns? If you have some science related links that supports your opinion please post them.
Oh, and make sure it follows your golden rule, you know which I'm taking about, right? The rule that allows you to conveniently hand wave away studies that tend prove you wrong? In case you forgot, here it is:
It has to be independently funded. What ever study you post cannot have funding from the company that makes wobenzym or be conducted by researchers who work for the company.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
Ah, the infamous snake oil peddler - Izabella Wentz. She is a pharmacist selling the public on her "Thyroid Diet". Beware anyone selling you products, plans, etc. There are two things that mitigate thyroid problems - surgery and medicine.
Wobenzym - over 200 clinical studies with no evidence of effectiveness. Another scam product.
Don't waste your money or time on such nonsense.
https://google.com/search?q=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS611US612&oq=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I Googled your statement word for word from your post. Was your statement made without reading any research about the effectiveness of Wobenzym or Vitamin D3 on human health concerns? If you have some science related links that supports your opinion please post them.
You've shifted the topic quite a bit Gale. This issue is specific to hypothyroidism and not general human health concerns. Recommending supplementation without diagnosed deficiency is incredibly irresponsible.
My statement is based on the number of submissions made to regulatory authorities - FDA, MHRA, BfArM, etc. and subsequently failing to provide objective evidence that this product has any provable health benefit. All open to the public.6 -
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease. I just am not opposed to eating plant based products like Wobenzym. I can tell from the above article by a trained healthcare professional it sounds like a tough disease to deal with since it has no cure.
For a n=1 a couple years ago I personally took Wobenzym at the rate of 20 tables four times daily for 30 days checking for its safety on behalf of a family member. Yes that test cost me $300 just for the Wobenzym supply but now I know it did not hurt me and some of my labs did improve but I have no way to prove that was due to the mega dosing of Wobenzym.
I have nothing to prove right or wrong. I see no reason for name calling of professionals that get articles published like the doctor above by non peers. I do not give medical advice and question why others would.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Treadmillmom1st wrote: »Hi guys. I need your opinion. I have for the last 7 years taken great care of my body through a combination of cardio and strength training and a balanced diet, I couldn't be happier with my physique.
I was upset to be recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.
I've heard weight increase to be an unavoidable side effect so have upped my exercise intensity and successfully upped my muscle mass, reduced my fat mass thus increasing my basal metabolic rate.
Good eh? No, if you believe what you read online.
Apparently strength and cardio training by nature damage the body forcing repair (catabolic), but is apparently harmful if you have Hypothyroidism.
WTF.
What are your thoughts?
@Treadmillmom1st as you point out "Catch 22" can be an issue as we work to improve our health. Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
Ah, the infamous snake oil peddler - Izabella Wentz. She is a pharmacist selling the public on her "Thyroid Diet". Beware anyone selling you products, plans, etc. There are two things that mitigate thyroid problems - surgery and medicine.
Wobenzym - over 200 clinical studies with no evidence of effectiveness. Another scam product.
Don't waste your money or time on such nonsense.
https://google.com/search?q=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS611US612&oq=Wobenzym+-+over+200+clinical+studies+with+no+evidence+of+effectiveness&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
I Googled your statement word for word from your post. Was your statement made without reading any research about the effectiveness of Wobenzym or Vitamin D3 on human health concerns? If you have some science related links that supports your opinion please post them.
You've shifted the topic quite a bit Gale. This issue is specific to hypothyroidism and not general human health concerns. Recommending supplementation without diagnosed deficiency is incredibly irresponsible.
My statement is based on the number of submissions made to regulatory authorities - FDA, MHRA, BfArM, etc. and subsequently failing to provide objective evidence that this product has any provable health benefit. All open to the public.
That is fine and we will look forward to reading the links when you find and post a few of them. If you can not find any then we can consider the case closed.5 -
Are you invoking argumentum ad ignorantiam?
Here's a helpful link that would serve you well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy5 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »I've never heard of that at all, and I've been hypothyroid and seeing specialists for years. I'd caution to be careful on what you read online. Try to find reputable sites and definitely talk to a endocrinologist.
Weight gain is NOT an unavoidable side effect, but weight gain is easier when you're hypo because your metabolism is slowed down. So to avoid gaining weight, you need to be more vigilant in your eating and exercising habits, and you may need to eat fewer calories than what the calculators all say you need for your height, weight, and age. I usually have to cut mine by about 100 calories to see the results I want to see. I have never heard or read anywhere that cardio and strength training were bad for hypothyroid patients, and common sense would argue with that one anyway.
I was once told by a former doctor that I'd never lose weight since I was hypo. Obviously untrue - I've lost 90 lbs in the last 10 months by counting calories alone. So just because a doctor says it, doesn't mean its true. Some doctors, especially in the endo field, aren't always up to date on the latest research and will continue to expound on what they were taught in school 20 years ago, which isn't always correct. Never be afraid to get a second opinion or a consensus, and definitely be skeptical of what you read online!
I actually have a saying for this "Not everyone graduates at the head of the class" some of those professionals just barely made it by, couple that with not continuing education and you have yourself a pretty lousy doctor 2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease.
Well let's take a look at what you posted:Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
You may not have said wobenzym treats Hashimotos but since you posted a link to a quack website that IS stating that wobenzym can treat Hashimotos then it can be inferred that you believe it can treat Hashimotos. So yes, you didn't state it definitely but you implied it.
3 -
Are you invoking argumentum ad ignorantiam?
Here's a helpful link that would serve you well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
Gale is the king of logical fallacies. Just read his posts on the flu vaccine thread. (If it can be looked at, I think it's locked)1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease.
Well let's take a look at what you posted:Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
You may not have said wobenzym treats Hashimotos but since you posted a link to a quack website that IS stating that wobenzym can treat Hashimotos then the it can be inferred that you believe it can treat Hashimotos. So yes, you didn't state it definitely but you implied it.
While I did not imply any such thing you must have decided to infer it from what the healthcare professional implied.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease.
Well let's take a look at what you posted:Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
You may not have said wobenzym treats Hashimotos but since you posted a link to a quack website that IS stating that wobenzym can treat Hashimotos then the it can be inferred that you believe it can treat Hashimotos. So yes, you didn't state it definitely but you implied it.
While I did not imply any such thing you must have decided to infer it from what the healthcare professional implied.
There is no way around it, you implied it by posting the link.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease.
Well let's take a look at what you posted:Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
You may not have said wobenzym treats Hashimotos but since you posted a link to a quack website that IS stating that wobenzym can treat Hashimotos then the it can be inferred that you believe it can treat Hashimotos. So yes, you didn't state it definitely but you implied it.
While I did not imply any such thing you must have decided to infer it from what the healthcare professional implied.
There is no way around it, you implied it by posting the link.
I said it may be of interest to some. You did the inferring that I implied anything. 3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/5-stages-hashimotos-thyroiditis/
I do not have the above disease John nor have I said Wobenzym treats it or any other disease.
Well let's take a look at what you posted:Since I do both Wobenzym and Vitamin D3 for other health concerns the article from a healthcare professional below caught my attention and may be of interest to some. Best of success in finding the balance that gives you the best results.
https://thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/reducing-thyroid-antibodies-wobenzym/
You may not have said wobenzym treats Hashimotos but since you posted a link to a quack website that IS stating that wobenzym can treat Hashimotos then the it can be inferred that you believe it can treat Hashimotos. So yes, you didn't state it definitely but you implied it.
While I did not imply any such thing you must have decided to infer it from what the healthcare professional implied.
There is no way around it, you implied it by posting the link.
I said it may be of interest to some. You did the inferring that I implied anything.
Ok. I'll play your game. Let's try this:
Do you believe the link to the quack website you posted about wobenzym and Hashimotos?
And
Who would be interested in the link and why would they be interested in the link?
3
This discussion has been closed.
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