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UK To Ban Surgery For Smokers and The Obese To Reduce Health Care Costs
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RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »York & Humber were the first and it is slowly being rolled out across the UK.
The smokers is down to the complications during general anaesthetic I believe.
I worry that it is a dangerous president to set. We open the door for it to then be people who take part in extreme sports etc. I'm not sure you can close the door after the horse has bolted so to speak.
I strongly believe the NHS should start taking voluntary donations from patients. Just leave a secure nailed down box at the receptions. Also start charging for hospital prescriptions. Why do I get me tablets from the hospital free when the NHS is almost bankrupt? Crazy policy.
I believe we could make a lot of extra money that way to help fund a better NHS.
Edit to add, is if you can't tell I'm very left in my views
I'm not sure you can argue that people who take part in extreme sports will have issues recovering after the surgery. As a group they're likely best off!
I believe certain hospitals can take donations. Great ormond street can for sure. It might be nice to be able to donate into the general NHS fund.0 -
The NHS does receive donations. There is a wish list at our local hospital for charities to work towards buying because the official funding does not permit this expenditure. Unfortunately the NHS organisation is wonderful if you have something urgent, accidents were the way of things when the NHS was created. This hospital, with A&E services in the top 10 in the country is going to close, to all but walk in persons because its been declared quicker to get to the lesser efficient A&E in the next town! Traffic conditions are difficult to both particularly at the height of the summer.
Now we need to be into preventative medicine and advice. It angers me that the endocrine system receives little consideration. Everyone rolls their eyes when the thyroid gland is mentioned, generally the perception is the only problem with thyroid conditions is a trivial amount of weight gain BUT if you read the literature you discover its far more that this. Imbalances between the glands most often presents in the thyroid, raising or lowering the t3 levels. NICE is adamant that there is no benefit measuring this hormone. Poor and elevated, t3 levels are known to have an impact on mental health, respiratory, cardiac, dietary, reproductive, digestive, growth and muscular skeletal issues, all of which reduce the quality of life and the employability of the individual and the tax take of the country. I believe by not permitting this measurement of t3 NICE is costing our society money by keeping people in ill health. Causing surgical procedure which if they ensured the interaction between endocrine glands is optimal would be avoided.
I waited for an hour and more past my appointment time yesterday. I was happy too. Someone else was vocal about her similar delay for the same doctor, her time was much to important to wait. For some reason I'm having a osteoarthritic flair up. I'm using the wooden crutches I was given as an "out of are fracture" many years ago, they have been my life line more than once. The people you meet in any NHS situation put their needs patients first, they are the very best, its the system which fails us all in any capacity. I'll have repeat x-rays after 16 years from the last. I waited 48 hours for this appointment, I did not consider my situation to be urgent, when they would have fitted me in sooner. I'd have waited longer if I specified a specific doctor, up to 5 weeks I heard mention. I could not justify getting to A&E.
The system, Government backed, play on the giving nature of their employees. In recent years there has been inadequate consideration given to the recruitment needs of the organisation, retirees have not had their replacement cover considered. We are short of doctors, nurses, midwives, phlebotomists, radiographers and all other professionals from within the UK because training has been low priority, the thinking being we can import people more cheaply than training them ourselves! Now overseas people are leaving because of the referendum outcome which makes them feel less welcome.
We should let the local area decide its own priorities rather than have dictates from above.2 -
Basically the NHS is underfunded we pay very little per head for the NHS compared to nearly every other developed country yet we have some of the best outcomes in the world.
How do we fix it? Well here's my twopence worth, the biggest one is PFI's implemented by successive governments are an investment con and are basically loan shark interest rates made by private firms to suck money out of the NHS that should be spent on the front line, they should all be stopped. Closure of local drop in centre's is putting too much pressure on A&E and hospitals, the privatisation of certain services that are then turning around and billing the NHS is creaming huge amounts of budget for profit instead of it being spent where needed.
The NHS isn't perfect but it's as near as we'll ever get and it's being torn apart by profit hungry vultures trying to get a piece at the expense of the service both financially and patient care. We have to be careful or we could end up with a private model with out of control costs, that's where alot of lobbyists want to see it and that's why we're seeing it squeezed and underfunded so people can be manipulated into accepting a private model because the NHS is broken. Also notice the narrative that many news outlets blame its woes on "immigrants and freeloaders" which incentivises people to want an insurance model as they are under the impression it will stop patient abuse of the NHS if it isn't free and you have to prove coverage for treatment, when in reality this is a very small problem compared to the others listed above.
I hope we can turn it around I owe alot to the NHS, I pay above average tax but along with education, the arts and scientific research this is one institution I do not mind investing my hard earned in for the good of the country and is one of the few things that makes me extremely proud to be British.0 -
Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.9
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animatorswearbras wrote: »Basically the NHS is underfunded we pay very little per head for the NHS compared to nearly every other developed country yet we have some of the best outcomes in the world.
How do we fix it? Well here's my twopence worth, the biggest one is PFI's implemented by successive governments are an investment con and are basically loan shark interest rates made by private firms to suck money out of the NHS that should be spent on the front line, they should all be stopped. Closure of local drop in centre's is putting too much pressure on A&E and hospitals, the privatisation of certain services that are then turning around and billing the NHS is creaming huge amounts of budget for profit instead of it being spent where needed.
The NHS isn't perfect but it's as near as we'll ever get and it's being torn apart by profit hungry vultures trying to get a piece at the expense of the service both financially and patient care. We have to be careful or we could end up with a private model with out of control costs, that's where alot of lobbyists want to see it and that's why we're seeing it squeezed and underfunded so people can be manipulated into accepting a private model because the NHS is broken. Also notice the narrative that many news outlets blame its woes on "immigrants and freeloaders" which incentivises people to want an insurance model as they are under the impression it will stop patient abuse of the NHS if it isn't free and you have to prove coverage for treatment, when in reality this is a very small problem compared to the others listed above.
I hope we can turn it around I owe alot to the NHS, I pay above average tax but along with education, the arts and scientific research this is one institution I do not mind investing my hard earned in for the good of the country and is one of the few things that makes me extremely proud to be British.
The level of outsourcing of so many services, not just within the NHS, is absolutely criminal. Yes it started with Labour, "New Labour" and really ramped up with the current lot.
And I'd agree, I know a lot of people I personally know would happily pay a bit more tax to better fund the NHS.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »York & Humber were the first and it is slowly being rolled out across the UK.
The smokers is down to the complications during general anaesthetic I believe.
I worry that it is a dangerous president to set. We open the door for it to then be people who take part in extreme sports etc. I'm not sure you can close the door after the horse has bolted so to speak.
I strongly believe the NHS should start taking voluntary donations from patients. Just leave a secure nailed down box at the receptions. Also start charging for hospital prescriptions. Why do I get me tablets from the hospital free when the NHS is almost bankrupt? Crazy policy.
I believe we could make a lot of extra money that way to help fund a better NHS.
Edit to add, is if you can't tell I'm very left in my views
This is true. There is never a point where a line is drawn and I think it really should be. It should be based on clinical outcomes for elective procedures. Because hip replacements aren't cheap and if you're carrying extra weight it is both bad for recovery and bad for the new hip. I may need to have a hip replacement at some point way down the line (dysplasia in one hip) and i wouldn't be in the least bit offended if I was told I needed to do xyz before being approved for surgery. Especially with the patient being supported to make those changes. It's better for the patient and for costs of treatment.1 -
Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.
I really have no idea what you are on about, death panels? Crikey is this what some American's think... how embarrassing for you, lol.
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animatorswearbras wrote: »Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.
I really have no idea what you are on about, death panels? Crikey is this what some American's think... how embarrassing for you, lol.
How short is your memory?
NHS did in fact refuse care that could have prolonged or preserved life earlier this year.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »animatorswearbras wrote: »Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.
I really have no idea what you are on about, death panels? Crikey is this what some American's think... how embarrassing for you, lol.
How short is your memory?
NHS did in fact refuse care that could have prolonged or preserved life earlier this year.
The little boy? That's a rabbit hole I don't really want to go down but that's not a death panel. It's not for me to judge but that was a heartbreaking situation and even the doctor who offered to treat in the US said the prognosis was still less than bleak.1 -
Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.
The NHS has pioneered many treatments and procedures and has phenomenal outcomes for patients.
Otherwise I have no clue what you're on about. I'm guessing socialism in any form is a dirty word to you though.3 -
Question: Can people pay out of their own pocket for a knee surgery in NHS?
No. They can go private though and you can have private health insurance if you wish. I don't think they can flit back and forth for treatment of the same procedure either. So if they had complications they'd have to go back to the private facility. That said, I don't know that they'd really be turned away in reality.3 -
animatorswearbras wrote: »Basically the NHS is underfunded we pay very little per head for the NHS compared to nearly every other developed country yet we have some of the best outcomes in the world.
How do we fix it? Well here's my twopence worth, the biggest one is PFI's implemented by successive governments are an investment con and are basically loan shark interest rates made by private firms to suck money out of the NHS that should be spent on the front line, they should all be stopped. Closure of local drop in centre's is putting too much pressure on A&E and hospitals, the privatisation of certain services that are then turning around and billing the NHS is creaming huge amounts of budget for profit instead of it being spent where needed.
The NHS isn't perfect but it's as near as we'll ever get and it's being torn apart by profit hungry vultures trying to get a piece at the expense of the service both financially and patient care. We have to be careful or we could end up with a private model with out of control costs, that's where alot of lobbyists want to see it and that's why we're seeing it squeezed and underfunded so people can be manipulated into accepting a private model because the NHS is broken. Also notice the narrative that many news outlets blame its woes on "immigrants and freeloaders" which incentivises people to want an insurance model as they are under the impression it will stop patient abuse of the NHS if it isn't free and you have to prove coverage for treatment, when in reality this is a very small problem compared to the others listed above.
I hope we can turn it around I owe alot to the NHS, I pay above average tax but along with education, the arts and scientific research this is one institution I do not mind investing my hard earned in for the good of the country and is one of the few things that makes me extremely proud to be British.
Jeremy Hunt actually wrote a book about how to privatise the NHS. These are the people in charge of our healthcare!1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »animatorswearbras wrote: »Omg people it's Govt run "free" health care. What do you expect??? The people here in the US that buy into single payer are going to get this. This stuff is not hard to figure out if you are thinking. Certain politicians in this country like to act like Santa and hand out free everything. Free comes at a price. S Palin was mocked and called stupid for talking about "death panels". Well what do you think this is??? An overloaded system will at some point decide for us who is treated and who is not. Get a clue people in the US before it's too late.
I really have no idea what you are on about, death panels? Crikey is this what some American's think... how embarrassing for you, lol.
How short is your memory?
NHS did in fact refuse care that could have prolonged or preserved life earlier this year.
So are all terminally ill children on life support kept on life support indefinitely and doctors don't make decisions to turn off life support ever in the US? I assure you Great Ormond Street is one of the finest pediatric hospitals in the world, what you saw was some vile ghouls trying to make politics out of a tragedy, noone could have saved that child it was a monstrous media circus that both the hospital and family were dragged through. You should have a real think before using that as an example it was disgusting how it was used.6 -
animatorswearbras wrote: »Basically the NHS is underfunded we pay very little per head for the NHS compared to nearly every other developed country yet we have some of the best outcomes in the world.
How do we fix it? Well here's my twopence worth, the biggest one is PFI's implemented by successive governments are an investment con and are basically loan shark interest rates made by private firms to suck money out of the NHS that should be spent on the front line, they should all be stopped. Closure of local drop in centre's is putting too much pressure on A&E and hospitals, the privatisation of certain services that are then turning around and billing the NHS is creaming huge amounts of budget for profit instead of it being spent where needed.
The NHS isn't perfect but it's as near as we'll ever get and it's being torn apart by profit hungry vultures trying to get a piece at the expense of the service both financially and patient care. We have to be careful or we could end up with a private model with out of control costs, that's where alot of lobbyists want to see it and that's why we're seeing it squeezed and underfunded so people can be manipulated into accepting a private model because the NHS is broken. Also notice the narrative that many news outlets blame its woes on "immigrants and freeloaders" which incentivises people to want an insurance model as they are under the impression it will stop patient abuse of the NHS if it isn't free and you have to prove coverage for treatment, when in reality this is a very small problem compared to the others listed above.
I hope we can turn it around I owe alot to the NHS, I pay above average tax but along with education, the arts and scientific research this is one institution I do not mind investing my hard earned in for the good of the country and is one of the few things that makes me extremely proud to be British.
Jeremy Hunt actually wrote a book about how to privatise the NHS. These are the people in charge of our healthcare!
I would quite happily build a trebuchet from scratch to catapult that smug waste of skin into the Atlantic as far as we could fling him. :P3 -
animatorswearbras wrote: »animatorswearbras wrote: »Basically the NHS is underfunded we pay very little per head for the NHS compared to nearly every other developed country yet we have some of the best outcomes in the world.
How do we fix it? Well here's my twopence worth, the biggest one is PFI's implemented by successive governments are an investment con and are basically loan shark interest rates made by private firms to suck money out of the NHS that should be spent on the front line, they should all be stopped. Closure of local drop in centre's is putting too much pressure on A&E and hospitals, the privatisation of certain services that are then turning around and billing the NHS is creaming huge amounts of budget for profit instead of it being spent where needed.
The NHS isn't perfect but it's as near as we'll ever get and it's being torn apart by profit hungry vultures trying to get a piece at the expense of the service both financially and patient care. We have to be careful or we could end up with a private model with out of control costs, that's where alot of lobbyists want to see it and that's why we're seeing it squeezed and underfunded so people can be manipulated into accepting a private model because the NHS is broken. Also notice the narrative that many news outlets blame its woes on "immigrants and freeloaders" which incentivises people to want an insurance model as they are under the impression it will stop patient abuse of the NHS if it isn't free and you have to prove coverage for treatment, when in reality this is a very small problem compared to the others listed above.
I hope we can turn it around I owe alot to the NHS, I pay above average tax but along with education, the arts and scientific research this is one institution I do not mind investing my hard earned in for the good of the country and is one of the few things that makes me extremely proud to be British.
Jeremy Hunt actually wrote a book about how to privatise the NHS. These are the people in charge of our healthcare!
I would quite happily build a trebuchet from scratch to catapult that smug waste of skin into the Atlantic as far as we could fling him. :P
I'll help.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Question: Can people pay out of their own pocket for a knee surgery in NHS?
No. They can go private though and you can have private health insurance if you wish. I don't think they can flit back and forth for treatment of the same procedure either. So if they had complications they'd have to go back to the private facility. That said, I don't know that they'd really be turned away in reality.
On my bolded bit... sort of.
Unless the complications are drastic and the kind that send you running to A&E because, I don't know, you suddenly start leaking green goo or something.
Also, some people go abroad for non-urgent medical procedures (including cosmetic) but the NHS then ends up dealing with the complications.
All irritatingly complex.
And curiously I was once transferred from the private side into the NHS for the exact same thing with no real reason given at the time. Apparently I was sufficiently medically interesting that the NHS wanted my records available for study and research etc, which probably wouldn't have been done if my data stayed on the private side.
I have a new mutation which gives an atypical presentation of an otherwise relatively common genetic neuropathy. At some point I get to be a case study for post grad medical exams
As for PFIs...
I've been working in project finance since 2003, including 4 years of PFI work near the start of that. While it's undoubtedly an imperfect system, I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about the bidding processes and implementation. I also think people would be significantly surprised about how much infrastructure globally is procured under project finance and public private partnership models rather than directly by governments.
However, for SURE it had hit a crazy bubble in the UK by about 2007 and Labour just kept piling it on, with 30 year payment obligations that subsequent governments have to honour. Hamstringing much?!0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Question: Can people pay out of their own pocket for a knee surgery in NHS?
No. They can go private though and you can have private health insurance if you wish. I don't think they can flit back and forth for treatment of the same procedure either. So if they had complications they'd have to go back to the private facility. That said, I don't know that they'd really be turned away in reality.
On my bolded bit... sort of.
Unless the complications are drastic and the kind that send you running to A&E because, I don't know, you suddenly start leaking green goo or something.
Also, some people go abroad for non-urgent medical procedures (including cosmetic) but the NHS then ends up dealing with the complications.
All irritatingly complex.
And curiously I was once transferred from the private side into the NHS for the exact same thing with no real reason given at the time. Apparently I was sufficiently medically interesting that the NHS wanted my records available for study and research etc, which probably wouldn't have been done if my data stayed on the private side.
I have a new mutation which gives an atypical presentation of an otherwise relatively common genetic neuropathy. At some point I get to be a case study for post grad medical exams
As for PFIs...
I've been working in project finance since 2003, including 4 years of PFI work near the start of that. While it's undoubtedly an imperfect system, I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about the bidding processes and implementation. I also think people would be significantly surprised about how much infrastructure globally is procured under project finance and public private partnership models rather than directly by governments.
However, for SURE it had hit a crazy bubble in the UK by about 2007 and Labour just kept piling it on, with 30 year payment obligations that subsequent governments have to honour. Hamstringing much?!
I do think the Tories and New Labour are pretty much cut from the same cloth when it comes to the city, I doubt you would get a cig paper between their finance of infrastructure policies. 30 year PFI's are no different to bloody wonga payday loans, ridiculous interest except with FTB mortgage length terms. They were a backhander to the city and investors which the government could have funded themselves as proved by the funds made available by the bailout in the time-frame you're talking about. @cs2thecox If however you have an example of a PFI which was fair and the public got value for money I am very happy to hear of it and have my misconceptions challenged.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Question: Can people pay out of their own pocket for a knee surgery in NHS?
No. They can go private though and you can have private health insurance if you wish. I don't think they can flit back and forth for treatment of the same procedure either. So if they had complications they'd have to go back to the private facility. That said, I don't know that they'd really be turned away in reality.
Australia has a private system that runs alongside the public, taxpayer/government funded Medicare system.
If a person opted for a private knee replacement their health fund would charge the patient an ‘excess’ then insurance would cover most of the hospital, surgeon, anaesthetic costs etc. The surgeon would be able to ask patient to meet certain criteria (smoking cessation, weight loss) should they deem them clinically appropriate.
Should that person go home, develop an infection in the wound, or a deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism or other complication, as an Australian under Medicare (or other residents with Medicare befits/reciprocal health cover arrangements from other countries in some cases) that person could rock up to any public hospital and receive treatment under Medicare for any post operative complication.
............
Australians can also choose to use their private insurance to cover the cost of care in the public system. This only influences billing though, not care and some patients find it hard to comprehend that they will not get special treatment (such as a private/single room) by using their private health insurance.
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