Trendweight Creeping Gain
newheavensearth
Posts: 870 Member
I took a look at my Libra graph and it showed a creeping gain since August of about .25 lba week (excess of 150 calories per day it said). I have my calories set up for .5 loss per week (1320), so clearly something is not working. My average daily intake is 1700 to 1900 calories. I earn about 800 to 1000 a day in exercise so I have been eating some back.
Would the next step be to eat back less exercise calories? I am eating a bit over mainternance when I include so many exercise calories. Maintenance is appx. 1500 calories. I'm 5'3", 145 (ugh) aiming for 125. Highest weights was 208. Started on WW, came here when I hit 158. Btw, yes I am using my scales for everything not liquid.
Would the next step be to eat back less exercise calories? I am eating a bit over mainternance when I include so many exercise calories. Maintenance is appx. 1500 calories. I'm 5'3", 145 (ugh) aiming for 125. Highest weights was 208. Started on WW, came here when I hit 158. Btw, yes I am using my scales for everything not liquid.
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Replies
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Are you measuring the liquids? It sounds like you're not burning as much as you think in exercise. What is giving you an 800-1000 calorie burn?5
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I'd say you're overestimating your exercise calorie burn. Machines and Fitbits can be notoriously inaccurate. For an average person, running a 10k results in about 600-800 calories burnt. What exercises are you doing and how many hours to burn 800-1000 calories?7
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Are you measuring the liquids? It sounds like you're not burning as much as you think in exercise. What is giving you an 800-1000 calorie burn?
Measuring liquids with cups and tablespoons.
Cardio- boxing, walking, jogging, elliptical, sports and plyometrics drills. 7x a week for 90 minutes. Circuit training 3x a week for an hour, done on same days as cardio.
And over 20,000 steps per day. Dietitian is actually worried activity might be excessive.0 -
I'd say you're overestimating your exercise calorie burn. Machines and Fitbits can be notoriously inaccurate. For an average person, running a 10k results in about 600-800 calories burnt. What exercises are you doing and how many hours to burn 800-1000 calories?
Cardio- boxing, walking, jogging, elliptical, sports and plyometrics drills. 7x a week for 90 minutes. Circuit training 3x a week for an hour, done on same days as cardio.
And over 20,000 steps per day. Dietitian is actually worried activity might be excessive.0 -
If you are putting on weight, trending over a period of 9 weeks, the simple answer is that you are overeating. If you want to lose weight, you'll have to reduce your average caloric intake by about 150-280 calories per day.
The longer answer is that estimates of calorie expenditure in exercise are rarely accurate. They are modeled off of data taken from professional athletes giving constant and consistent effort unlikely to be duplicated by non-professional athletes.6 -
Great answers! I have been suspicious of my Fit bit recently. Sometimes it gives me a 2500 daily expenditure at the end of the day and I'm just like huh? So definitely will factor in less exercise calorie usage.5
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1) It's okay to be 5'3" and 145, you don't have to apologize for it.
2) However you're estimating exercise calorie burn might be off; exercising for weight loss often runs into this pitfall. On the elliptical I cut my estimated calorie burn by 1/2-1/3 what the machine tells me.
3) Burning that many calories every single day through exercise is a lot; I'm not judging and I'm sure you're crushin it in the gym, but do you never take a day off? Do you never do a lower-intensity workout? How do you feel after your workouts? Aiming for 800 calories just so you can eat 800 more calories is the downfall of many a fit fat person; I'm guilty of this. I'm debating having a second bowl of cereal right now and then going to the gym for 2 hours... that's dumb I know.
One thing that helps (though it's not as accurate as Vo2 max for calorie burn estimation) is checking in with a tool like this to estimate calorie burn by heart rate: http://www.calories-calculator.net/Calories_Burned_By_Heart_Rate.html. By this method my burn was much lower than I thought; it's not 100% but gave me a ballpark.8 -
1) It's okay to be 5'3" and 145, you don't have to apologize for it.
2) However you're estimating exercise calorie burn might be off; exercising for weight loss often runs into this pitfall. On the elliptical I cut my estimated calorie burn by 1/2-1/3 what the machine tells me.
3) Burning that many calories every single day through exercise is a lot; I'm not judging and I'm sure you're crushin it in the gym, but do you never take a day off? Do you never do a lower-intensity workout? How do you feel after your workouts? Aiming for 800 calories just so you can eat 800 more calories is the downfall of many a fit fat person; I'm guilty of this. I'm debating having a second bowl of cereal right now and then going to the gym for 2 hours... that's dumb I know.
One thing that helps (though it's not as accurate as Vo2 max for calorie burn estimation) is checking in with a tool like this to estimate calorie burn by heart rate: http://www.calories-calculator.net/Calories_Burned_By_Heart_Rate.html. By this method my burn was much lower than I thought; it's not 100% but gave me a ballpark. [/quote
I recently started adding in lower intensity days and more stretching/ rehab exercise only days. My fibromyalgia said I needed to scale back. Most of all that is for stress relief, which unfortunately results in rungries at times.
I'll check out that site though. Thanks!0 -
newheavensearth wrote: »Great answers! I have been suspicious of my Fit bit recently. Sometimes it gives me a 2500 daily expenditure at the end of the day and I'm just like huh? So definitely will factor in less exercise calorie usage.
In all honesty, 2500 for the type of activity level you describe doesn't sound high at all. I realize something is off if you are trending upwards.1 -
newheavensearth wrote: »Are you measuring the liquids? It sounds like you're not burning as much as you think in exercise. What is giving you an 800-1000 calorie burn?
Measuring liquids with cups and tablespoons.
Cardio- boxing, walking, jogging, elliptical, sports and plyometrics drills. 7x a week for 90 minutes. Circuit training 3x a week for an hour, done on same days as cardio.
And over 20,000 steps per day. Dietitian is actually worried activity might be excessive.
90 minutes is probably giving you 400-500 calories, depending on the ratio of walking to other things. Circuit training-- so, strength training? Doesn't really burn calories.4 -
I think your estimated calorie burn seems a little high (which is unrelated to whether or not you are doing too much). Maybe a lot high.3
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Have you taken a diet break at any point? You certainly seem active enough for your numbers but there may be other factors impacting at the moment if you've been in a continuous deficit for a long time.6
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VintageFeline wrote: »Have you taken a diet break at any point? You certainly seem active enough for your numbers but there may be other factors impacting at the moment if you've been in a continuous deficit for a long time.
No, I haven't taken a diet break in almost a year.0 -
You're hormones might be out of whack. Do some low intensity workouts too. You might have high cortisol levels from intense exercise over a long period of time, so take a break and do some lower intensity workouts.2
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newheavensearth wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Have you taken a diet break at any point? You certainly seem active enough for your numbers but there may be other factors impacting at the moment if you've been in a continuous deficit for a long time.
No, I haven't taken a diet break in almost a year.
There's a great thread which will be near this called "Of Refeeds and Diet Breaks". I think it would be great for you to have a look and then take a proper break to eat at maintenance for at least a couple of weeks. As above, your hormones, especially leptin, will be on the floor and leptin is key in weight loss. Throw in cortisol from the stress of too much activity and not enough fuel and you could also be retaining a bunch of water.7 -
You're hormones might be out of whack. Do some low intensity workouts too. You might have high cortisol levels from intense exercise over a long period of time, so take a break and do some lower intensity workouts.
Mentally this sounds scary. But deep down it sounds like exactly what my body and metabolism need.
Thank you all.
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newheavensearth wrote: »I took a look at my Libra graph and it showed a creeping gain since August of about .25 lba week (excess of 150 calories per day it said). I have my calories set up for .5 loss per week (1320), so clearly something is not working. My average daily intake is 1700 to 1900 calories. I earn about 800 to 1000 a day in exercise so I have been eating some back.
Would the next step be to eat back less exercise calories? I am eating a bit over mainternance when I include so many exercise calories. Maintenance is appx. 1500 calories. I'm 5'3", 145 (ugh) aiming for 125. Highest weights was 208. Started on WW, came here when I hit 158. Btw, yes I am using my scales for everything not liquid.
First and foremost, these calculators give you an estimate based on population statistics...these number you get for your calorie targets aren't some kind of gospel...they are simply a reasonably good estimate to get started. Secondly, there are inherent inaccuracies in logging and keeping a food diary...even dietitians have difficulty...it's not a super accurate process. Third, while not a total crap shoot, estimating energy expenditure from exercise and other general activity is very inexact...all of these devices are simply giving you an estimate based on whatever algorithm they're using.
What this ultimately means is that you need to take the numbers from the calculators and gadgets and whatnot and use them in conjunction with your actual results...your actual results will tell you if you need to adjust something. Basically you need to cut out a snack or two.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »newheavensearth wrote: »I took a look at my Libra graph and it showed a creeping gain since August of about .25 lba week (excess of 150 calories per day it said). I have my calories set up for .5 loss per week (1320), so clearly something is not working. My average daily intake is 1700 to 1900 calories. I earn about 800 to 1000 a day in exercise so I have been eating some back.
Would the next step be to eat back less exercise calories? I am eating a bit over mainternance when I include so many exercise calories. Maintenance is appx. 1500 calories. I'm 5'3", 145 (ugh) aiming for 125. Highest weights was 208. Started on WW, came here when I hit 158. Btw, yes I am using my scales for everything not liquid.
First and foremost, these calculators give you an estimate based on population statistics...these number you get for your calorie targets aren't some kind of gospel...they are simply a reasonably good estimate to get started. Secondly, there are inherent inaccuracies in logging and keeping a food diary...even dietitians have difficulty...it's not a super accurate process. Third, while not a total crap shoot, estimating energy expenditure from exercise and other general activity is very inexact...all of these devices are simply giving you an estimate based on whatever algorithm they're using.
What this ultimately means is that you need to take the numbers from the calculators and gadgets and whatnot and use them in conjunction with your actual results...your actual results will tell you if you need to adjust something. Basically you need to cut out a snack or two.
Agreed!
Thanks for the advice 0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »newheavensearth wrote: »I took a look at my Libra graph and it showed a creeping gain since August of about .25 lba week (excess of 150 calories per day it said). I have my calories set up for .5 loss per week (1320), so clearly something is not working. My average daily intake is 1700 to 1900 calories. I earn about 800 to 1000 a day in exercise so I have been eating some back.
Would the next step be to eat back less exercise calories? I am eating a bit over mainternance when I include so many exercise calories. Maintenance is appx. 1500 calories. I'm 5'3", 145 (ugh) aiming for 125. Highest weights was 208. Started on WW, came here when I hit 158. Btw, yes I am using my scales for everything not liquid.
First and foremost, these calculators give you an estimate based on population statistics...these number you get for your calorie targets aren't some kind of gospel...they are simply a reasonably good estimate to get started. Secondly, there are inherent inaccuracies in logging and keeping a food diary...even dietitians have difficulty...it's not a super accurate process. Third, while not a total crap shoot, estimating energy expenditure from exercise and other general activity is very inexact...all of these devices are simply giving you an estimate based on whatever algorithm they're using.
What this ultimately means is that you need to take the numbers from the calculators and gadgets and whatnot and use them in conjunction with your actual results...your actual results will tell you if you need to adjust something. Basically you need to cut out a snack or two.
In light of this comment (which I 100% endorse), you might find this article interesting/informative:
https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/3 -
OP, you might want to take a look at the "Of Refeeds and Diet Breaks" thread. This article was posted within (so much good stuff in that thread) and reading your post made me think of it. https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/4
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So basically:
Lower internsity days here and there are a good idea.
Diet breaks/ refeeds are a good idea.
But most likely I'm seriously overestimating my exercise calories, eating too many back, and blowing my deficit. Therefore a creeping gain.
Right?5 -
I will also endorse the Refeeds and Diet Breaks thread (funny that
), and taking a diet break. A diet break isn't two weeks off piste, you're still tracking and logging to ensure you're hitting your maintenance calories. Yes, a little mentally scary at first, but once you're in the swing of it, it's awesome. And your body will thank you 4 -
OP, you might want to take a look at the "Of Refeeds and Diet Breaks" thread. This article was posted within (so much good stuff in that thread) and reading your post made me think of it. https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
I just skimmed this and yes this is me.
I was exercising so much to try to offset the stress in my life instead of binging. And lose weight of course. Looks like it backfired. 2 -
newheavensearth wrote: »I'd say you're overestimating your exercise calorie burn. Machines and Fitbits can be notoriously inaccurate. For an average person, running a 10k results in about 600-800 calories burnt. What exercises are you doing and how many hours to burn 800-1000 calories?
Cardio- boxing, walking, jogging, elliptical, sports and plyometrics drills. 7x a week for 90 minutes. Circuit training 3x a week for an hour, done on same days as cardio.
And over 20,000 steps per day. Dietitian is actually worried activity might be excessive.
Wow there sparky! On 1500 calories?
To BEGIN WITH, just on the basis of 20K steps a day you exceed MFP's VERY ACTIVE setting.
Either you have a very big error on your calories in.
Or you're tanked and ARE over-exercising (no need to wonder whether you are)
And you are a prime candidate to read through the extremely long and extremely informative thread on Re-feeds and diet breaks.4 -
newheavensearth wrote: »OP, you might want to take a look at the "Of Refeeds and Diet Breaks" thread. This article was posted within (so much good stuff in that thread) and reading your post made me think of it. https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
I just skimmed this and yes this is me. I was exercising so much to try to offset the stress in my life instead of binging. And lose weight of course. Looks like it backfired.
Yep, it's the Catch-22 of using exercise to de-stress! May de-stress your mind, but stresses your body. Bah! Diet break and easing up a bit on the cardio during that will sort out that pesky cortisol 6 -
newheavensearth wrote: »OP, you might want to take a look at the "Of Refeeds and Diet Breaks" thread. This article was posted within (so much good stuff in that thread) and reading your post made me think of it. https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
I just skimmed this and yes this is me. I was exercising so much to try to offset the stress in my life instead of binging. And lose weight of course. Looks like it backfired.
The good news is it's fixable and you get to eat more and get to feel about 5000% better once properly fuelled and recovered.3 -
newheavensearth wrote: »I'd say you're overestimating your exercise calorie burn. Machines and Fitbits can be notoriously inaccurate. For an average person, running a 10k results in about 600-800 calories burnt. What exercises are you doing and how many hours to burn 800-1000 calories?
Cardio- boxing, walking, jogging, elliptical, sports and plyometrics drills. 7x a week for 90 minutes. Circuit training 3x a week for an hour, done on same days as cardio.
And over 20,000 steps per day. Dietitian is actually worried activity might be excessive.
Wow there sparky! On 1500 calories?
To BEGIN WITH, just on the basis of 20K steps a day you exceed MFP's VERY ACTIVE setting.
Either you have a very big error on your calories in.
Or you're tanked and ARE over-exercising (no need to wonder whether you are)
And you are a prime candidate to read through the extremely long and extremely informative thread on Re-feeds and diet breaks.
There's a handy synopsis on p.6 4 -
@newheavensearth, with a small apology, I woo-ed your synopsis.
Because:
Your fitbit is not giving you "exercise" calories.
It is giving you an independent estimate of your total calories burned. The adjustment you see is just the difference between what you TOLD MFP you would burn by telling MFP you're sedentary and what Fitbit evaluated your burn to be as someone who is actually a beyond highly active person.
If you set MFP to very active your "exercise calories" would be lower.
Whether 2500 calories is a high estimate or not is debatable given your exercise. But I don't think that we can all sit here and seriously argue that a burn of over 2000 Cal does not make sense for a person engaged in the level of activity you describe. And you're trending up while eating about 1500,
So. Either your logging is incredibly off (possible, but it seems to be a bit unlikely if things are as you represent them to be). Or your expected burns are not materialising to a degree that is much more "severe" than normal.
Adaptive thermogenesis and exercise adaptation ARE a thing (the stickies do contain at least one thread with multiple peer reviewed references).
You CAN just keep eating less and less to lose weight (I call that beating head against the wall. The wall will eventually cave in... or you will lose consciousness or stop the head banging due to injuries and pain from the repeat hits).
Or you can try to see if you can change things around.
Noni's thread on re-feeds and diet breaks contains a lot of possibly pertinent information.
@heybales may have some more input. I don't know if the Eat More to weigh less group here might have some useful input for @newheavensearth5 -
Only input that group would probably have is do a reset long enough to not only help the hormonal aspect (which doesn't need that long usually) - but to get the mind right (could take longer).
Which for some people is pretty big hurdle and needs that time of eating at maintenance to decide what is healthy and reasonable and what's actually most important in losing weight/transforming body.
In case not mentioned yet, just throw in that cortisol stress-induced water weight gain has been reported to go upwards of 20 lbs.
Talk about stress of not seeing scale move.
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As a fellow over 20K steps a day person who has been over training and has finally hit the wall, I will add my vote to you needing a diet break and a scaling back on activity.
I'm afraid too, but we can do this!
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