To keto or not to
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russelljam08 wrote: »
Don't tell me what to do. Volek was DESTROYED by Alan Aragon in a debate a few years ago and was left DUMBFOUNDED. One of Volek's underlings got fired from the University of Tampa for FALSIFYING data. Take the blinders offrusselljam08 wrote: »It really did not make a lot of sense to me either. Try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living for a really good keto and low carb book.
LOL the book written by Atkins Foundation funded "scientists" LOL ok. The delusion is real. Jimmy Moore was looking "slim" in his latest pics lol
You seem to be very anti-keto. Perhaps consider skipping these threads?
Phinney and Volek are prolific researchers in the low carb and ketogenic diets. To me it sort of makes sense that they added their knowledge to the last rewrite of the Atkins book. Who would you have preferred? Ornish?
It was more of a politely worded suggestion.
I think it was Taubes who went to a debate with Aragon, who then asked the lifting audience who they would rather have train them. No brainer there.
I have not seen the events you mentioned. If what you say is true, one unethical and dishonest person does not make a way of eating invalid. Vogel is an expert in the field. As I said, it makes sense for him to write in this area and not on some other duet like veganism.0 -
maybe i should read the thingie.. lol i can't follow the conversation anymore0
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It really did not make a lot of sense to me either. Try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living for a really good keto and low carb book.
I'd agree this is a good source. I don't at all think keto is necessary (and I am not keto-ing, for various reasons), and I would not agree that the Jimmy Moore books are good sources (I think it's sad so many people think they need to do his macros which are too low in protein and don't get why he's supposed to be some authority in anything). But the Phinney/Volek book seemed like a good basic reference.0 -
russelljam08 wrote: »
Don't tell me what to do. Volek was DESTROYED by Alan Aragon in a debate a few years ago and was left DUMBFOUNDED. One of Volek's underlings got fired from the University of Tampa for FALSIFYING data. Take the blinders offrusselljam08 wrote: »It really did not make a lot of sense to me either. Try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living for a really good keto and low carb book.
LOL the book written by Atkins Foundation funded "scientists" LOL ok. The delusion is real. Jimmy Moore was looking "slim" in his latest pics lol
You seem to be very anti-keto. Perhaps consider skipping these threads?
Phinney and Volek are prolific researchers in the low carb and ketogenic diets. To me it sort of makes sense that they added their knowledge to the last rewrite of the Atkins book. Who would you have preferred? Ornish?
It was more of a politely worded suggestion.
I think it was Taubes who went to a debate with Aragon, who then asked the lifting audience who they would rather have train them. No brainer there.
I have not seen the events you mentioned. If what you say is true, one unethical and dishonest person does not make a way of eating invalid. Vogel is an expert in the field. As I said, it makes sense for him to write in this area and not on some other duet like veganism.
To be fair, Alan Aragon is the most respected guy in the fitness and science industry, when he says something, he doesn't say it without backing it up.
Aragon knows his stuff. I was just diappointed that he took that dig at Taubes.... It was one of the only parts of the debate I could find online too.
Taubes is a writer, a good writer who has found some interesting topics, but he is no researcher.0 -
russelljam08 wrote: »
Don't tell me what to do. Volek was DESTROYED by Alan Aragon in a debate a few years ago and was left DUMBFOUNDED. One of Volek's underlings got fired from the University of Tampa for FALSIFYING data. Take the blinders offrusselljam08 wrote: »It really did not make a lot of sense to me either. Try The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living for a really good keto and low carb book.
LOL the book written by Atkins Foundation funded "scientists" LOL ok. The delusion is real. Jimmy Moore was looking "slim" in his latest pics lol
You seem to be very anti-keto. Perhaps consider skipping these threads?
Phinney and Volek are prolific researchers in the low carb and ketogenic diets. To me it sort of makes sense that they added their knowledge to the last rewrite of the Atkins book. Who would you have preferred? Ornish?
It was more of a politely worded suggestion.
I think it was Taubes who went to a debate with Aragon, who then asked the lifting audience who they would rather have train them. No brainer there.
I have not seen the events you mentioned. If what you say is true, one unethical and dishonest person does not make a way of eating invalid. Vogel is an expert in the field. As I said, it makes sense for him to write in this area and not on some other duet like veganism.
To be fair, Alan Aragon is the most respected guy in the fitness and science industry, when he says something, he doesn't say it without backing it up.
Aragon knows his stuff. I was just diappointed that he took that dig at Taubes.... It was one of the only parts of the debate I could find online too.
Taubes is a writer, a good writer who has found some interesting topics, but he is no researcher.
Exactly. And he is essentially the equivalent of those who demonized fats back in the day.4 -
I have in fact seen Alan defend keto in a direct "debate" against some bro from Twitter. They took it to Facebook. Alan thinks it can be as useful a diet as any for some people based on preference, IIRC.
To be fair, the bro was punching way above his weight taking on Aragon. And the guy was very wrong about how awful keto was.
It just went to show how even-handed Alan is and that he sticks to science.2 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
I always read it as Quite *kitten* True...Lol...1 -
Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.1 -
xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?0 -
so that it can become more productive with both so you can cycle in and out so you can work with two types of energy sources. that and depending if your using one to gain weight (fat or muscle) and the other to 'clean house' of old fat stores. with my keto and low carb cycling i use the low carb cycle to gain body fat so that i can use ketones on fasting days so i don't have to worry about going underweight and to keep me from losing muscles. that and it helps if i 'fatten up' with about a pound of body fat so that i can keep up my endurance runs. i Love running sense it's my meditation time and with keto you don't have to worry about hitting the wall so to say. by the end of this up coming year i have a goal of doing two days of running that are 20 miles each and this method helps me get closer without completely emptying the take to say. mainly i fallow macros not calories and protein and carbs are fixed to certain ranges with the only thing i have to think about is fat sources. carbs and fat are the two energy sources your body can use but protein is what your body needs to stay up to date with muscle growth.janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?
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xhunter561 wrote: »
so that it can become more productive with both so you can cycle in and out so you can work with two types of energy sources. that and depending if your using one to gain weight (fat or muscle) and the other to 'clean house' of old fat stores. with my keto and low carb cycling i use the low carb cycle to gain body fat so that i can use ketones on fasting days so i don't have to worry about going underweight and to keep me from losing muscles. that and it helps if i 'fatten up' with about a pound of body fat so that i can keep up my endurance runs. i Love running sense it's my meditation time and with keto you don't have to worry about hitting the wall so to say. by the end of this up coming year i have a goal of doing two days of running that are 20 miles each and this method helps me get closer without completely emptying the take to say. mainly i fallow macros not calories and protein and carbs are fixed to certain ranges with the only thing i have to think about is fat sources. carbs and fat are the two energy sources your body can use but protein is what your body needs to stay up to date with muscle growth.janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?
This is confusing to me as I think my body can use all types of energy without me having to put it through any type of practice. I can also lose body fat without having to use any special strategy.
I am able to run twenty miles and I've never (to my knowledge) been in ketosis.2 -
xhunter561 wrote: »
so that it can become more productive with both so you can cycle in and out so you can work with two types of energy sources. that and depending if your using one to gain weight (fat or muscle) and the other to 'clean house' of old fat stores. with my keto and low carb cycling i use the low carb cycle to gain body fat so that i can use ketones on fasting days so i don't have to worry about going underweight and to keep me from losing muscles. that and it helps if i 'fatten up' with about a pound of body fat so that i can keep up my endurance runs. i Love running sense it's my meditation time and with keto you don't have to worry about hitting the wall so to say. by the end of this up coming year i have a goal of doing two days of running that are 20 miles each and this method helps me get closer without completely emptying the take to say. mainly i fallow macros not calories and protein and carbs are fixed to certain ranges with the only thing i have to think about is fat sources. carbs and fat are the two energy sources your body can use but protein is what your body needs to stay up to date with muscle growth.janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?
I've seen your diary, so I'd like to remind you that you need to be in an energy surplus to have muscle growth.
And yes, protein is anabolic. So are carbohydrates.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
so that it can become more productive with both so you can cycle in and out so you can work with two types of energy sources. that and depending if your using one to gain weight (fat or muscle) and the other to 'clean house' of old fat stores. with my keto and low carb cycling i use the low carb cycle to gain body fat so that i can use ketones on fasting days so i don't have to worry about going underweight and to keep me from losing muscles. that and it helps if i 'fatten up' with about a pound of body fat so that i can keep up my endurance runs. i Love running sense it's my meditation time and with keto you don't have to worry about hitting the wall so to say. by the end of this up coming year i have a goal of doing two days of running that are 20 miles each and this method helps me get closer without completely emptying the take to say. mainly i fallow macros not calories and protein and carbs are fixed to certain ranges with the only thing i have to think about is fat sources. carbs and fat are the two energy sources your body can use but protein is what your body needs to stay up to date with muscle growth.janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?
This is confusing to me as I think my body can use all types of energy without me having to put it through any type of practice. I can also lose body fat without having to use any special strategy.
I am able to run twenty miles and I've never (to my knowledge) been in ketosis.
some people need more than others given their genetics and food tolerances. One method might work for some and not others. YOU don't need ketosis if your fine on what you already working with but for people that do horrible on burning glucose like me, we need fat as a primary source to keep glucose at a very min. in our systems just to do even the basics. before keto i could not even do a half mile run without getting tunnel vision and horrible pain when running. with my current diet i don't have to worry about pain or tunnel vision when running. But ya, keto is for some not all.0 -
xhunter561 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
so that it can become more productive with both so you can cycle in and out so you can work with two types of energy sources. that and depending if your using one to gain weight (fat or muscle) and the other to 'clean house' of old fat stores. with my keto and low carb cycling i use the low carb cycle to gain body fat so that i can use ketones on fasting days so i don't have to worry about going underweight and to keep me from losing muscles. that and it helps if i 'fatten up' with about a pound of body fat so that i can keep up my endurance runs. i Love running sense it's my meditation time and with keto you don't have to worry about hitting the wall so to say. by the end of this up coming year i have a goal of doing two days of running that are 20 miles each and this method helps me get closer without completely emptying the take to say. mainly i fallow macros not calories and protein and carbs are fixed to certain ranges with the only thing i have to think about is fat sources. carbs and fat are the two energy sources your body can use but protein is what your body needs to stay up to date with muscle growth.janejellyroll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
Why does your body require "practice" with ketones and glucose?
This is confusing to me as I think my body can use all types of energy without me having to put it through any type of practice. I can also lose body fat without having to use any special strategy.
I am able to run twenty miles and I've never (to my knowledge) been in ketosis.
some people need more than others given their genetics and food tolerances. One method might work for some and not others. YOU don't need ketosis if your fine on what you already working with but for people that do horrible on burning glucose like me, we need fat as a primary source to keep glucose at a very min. in our systems just to do even the basics. before keto i could not even do a half mile run without getting tunnel vision and horrible pain when running. with my current diet i don't have to worry about pain or tunnel vision when running. But ya, keto is for some not all.
If I couldn't run half a mile without horrible pain, I would suspect it was my conditioning, not the fact that I wasn't in ketosis. How did you arrive at the conclusion that it was your diet that needed to change and not your level of physical conditioning?5 -
I've seen your diary, so I'd like to remind you that you need to be in an energy surplus to have muscle growth.
And yes, protein is anabolic. So are carbohydrates.
i'm sticking to what i have sense it's been working wonders for me so far. only way it's going to change is if i want to fatten up for a fast. my body knows what it needs far more than anyone else and every time i go against it i end up the one in bad pain later. progress might be slow at times but i rather get there the correct way for my body than something unsustainable. i am keeping on top of it i can assure you and have not had any problems with energy or my cycle.1 -
jane: because before keto i had been trying to run for about two years thinking that would help with weight loss and improve health. i studied and tried to do as others have taught me when running and i never did get improvements with my weight or health. basically i was forced to walk more than run stuck at about 170 lbs at 5'3. it took about a month on keto to get to a point where i could build distance and a few more months to have no tunnel vision. before i ate fruits and pastas thinking that would give me energy but it had only made it worse if eaten within 3 hours of working out.
sorry trying to get this annoy quote things to work
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xhunter561 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote:
I've seen your diary, so I'd like to remind you that you need to be in an energy surplus to have muscle growth.
And yes, protein is anabolic. So are carbohydrates.
i'm sticking to what i have sense it's been working wonders for me so far. only way it's going to change is if i want to fatten up for a fast. my body knows what it needs far more than anyone else and every time i go against it i end up the one in bad pain later. progress might be slow at times but i rather get there the correct way for my body than something unsustainable. i am keeping on top of it i can assure you and have not had any problems with energy or my cycle.
All I am telling you is that you are not building muscle. I expect in fact you're likely losing muscle.
If you are still overweight or at least have decent fat stores, that might explain why you still have a cycle.
There will come a point where running 40 miles a week on 1000-1200 calories a day (and less, because you fast some days) is going to bite you.
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