To keto or not to
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My muscles look smaller normally unless i fall out of keto but it's not worth it to me given it's accompanied by bad pain. What matters is that I am getting stronger and that is proof enough I could care less if they were wider because wider normally means heavier (clunkier) that and distance running is just not practical. I have been studying the keto line of nutrition and how it affects the body from day one of starting keto almost every day on my free time. I keep my weight around 120 now because I have to keep my weight in a certain range or i will get Flagged for it with my career, that and it's best for my workouts. It might look a little scary to look at when you first look at my dairy but there is a method to the madness as well as it's what works best for my genetics. I do my runs so often that it's not likely i'm burning half as much as what I used to sense i'm more effective at it. Doing a work out type enough and you just don't burn what you used to and thus you don't need to eat overly much more. The only time i'd eat 1000 or more calories is if i could not reach my nutrition needs or my macros or if I just want to put on more though i think i have enough on me at the moment so I am not going to freak out just because i'm 300 calories shy of the recommendations. But i haven't been losing weight or strength with my method so I am at about the correct range. I am estimating about 10 or so pounds of fat at the moment so i do have enough. But my diet gets updated and changed as needed on a as needed bases. If a time come to bump the amount up I will until I can get back to what works best for me. normally though i get my recommendation even if i do a small cycle of alternate day fasting or just IF fasting. For alternate day fasting I try for about 2000 if I can stomach it. But I know what to watch for and confident in what knowledge i have now.
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I give up.
Thankfully, you eat 2000 calories every now and then and have more body fat than you think you do.3 -
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
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xhunter561 wrote: »jane: because before keto i had been trying to run for about two years thinking that would help with weight loss and improve health. i studied and tried to do as others have taught me when running and i never did get improvements with my weight or health. basically i was forced to walk more than run stuck at about 170 lbs at 5'3. it took about a month on keto to get to a point where i could build distance and a few more months to have no tunnel vision. before i ate fruits and pastas thinking that would give me energy but it had only made it worse if eaten within 3 hours of working out.
sorry trying to get this annoy quote things to work
So basically you ran without controlling calories and never lost any weight. And then you started keto, lost weight and was able to run.
Going keto gave you am ability to lose weight which is a large cause for body pains.1 -
xhunter561 wrote: »jane: because before keto i had been trying to run for about two years thinking that would help with weight loss and improve health. i studied and tried to do as others have taught me when running and i never did get improvements with my weight or health. basically i was forced to walk more than run stuck at about 170 lbs at 5'3. it took about a month on keto to get to a point where i could build distance and a few more months to have no tunnel vision. before i ate fruits and pastas thinking that would give me energy but it had only made it worse if eaten within 3 hours of working out.
sorry trying to get this annoy quote things to work
So basically you ran without controlling calories and never lost any weight. And then you started keto, lost weight and was able to run.
Going keto gave you am ability to lose weight which is a large cause for body pains.
going keto gave me a bases to reduce insulin spikes which hampered weight loss for me and I said it was for me not you. so I still don't see where your getting the whole i told you it would help you personally. I don't claim keto is a cure all for everyone but it sure helped me a lot and still does, weight loss and improved running where some of my personal favorite improvements for myself. I do keto for my health and cycle out of it only every so often. the weight was not the cause of the body pains. Body pains were likely from my nerves and my joints hurt as well as headaches. a couple of days ago when I allowed myself to splurge because of the occasion I had and still have some joint pain, been having sharp pains threw out my head, and the likes. All the food consumed that day were high in simple carbs (stuffing, pecan pie, cranberries, briskets, ect).
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xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
I cut on 1600 - 1700 calories and maintain on anywhere from 2100 - 2300 and I'm 55 years old and only weigh 5 pounds more than you do. I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but yeah, it's not past me to eat some candy or cookies from time to time.
My body's energy needs are high because I'm active.
There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.3 -
I'm posting for info purposes.
It's an article by Vince Gironda from 1980. Ketosis was used by bodybuilders to cut up for contests up to around the early 80s when the trend shifted more toward a gradual slow weight loss by a lower calorie balanced diet.
Ketosis was done by eating only meat, tuna fish, eggs with zero carb except for a small salad or vegetable to help digestion. Unlimited amounts of meat could be eaten. As long as you just ate meat you didn't have to count calories.
Keto sticks were used to test the urine to determine if and when the body entered ketosis. Ketosis made the body use fat stores for energy (since no carbs were eaten) and spared muscle loss.
Training was 5-6 days a week of high volume bodybuilding. Cardio was done several times a week to burn additional calories.
Gironda describes using this diet for long periods of time. He must have been quite a guy because it becomes unpleasant unless you really like meat. It also is stressful on the body both physically and mentally due to the extremely low carbs allowed. Constipation could be a problem as very little fiber is eaten.
Gironda used this diet during his competitive days in the 1940s to get very ripped. He became so ripped for his era that he was considered TOO ripped. The standard for that time was Steve Reeves who was not ripped but probably around 12% bodyfat.
Arnold Schwarzenegger used this same diet.
Enjoy.
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I never told you that it was yours and I don't expect others to go off my temp let sense it's unnatural for them. If you started eating the way i eat you'd shock your body. I don't want you to eat the way I eat I would rather you eat the way that does best for your body and your over all health and to actually enjoy the foods you want. If you can eat those sugary treats power to you i don't begrudge you there and I'm not going to judge you on how much you need to eat to maintain your body. Personally if i want cookies or cakes i will replace the flower with almond flower or coconut flower, protein powder, ect. But your genetics are not like mine and our needs are not the same and my bones are fine.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
I cut on 1600 - 1700 calories and maintain on anywhere from 2100 - 2300 and I'm 55 years old and only weigh 5 pounds more than you do. I eat a mostly whole foods diet, but yeah, it's not past me to eat some candy or cookies from time to time.
My body's energy needs are high because I'm active.
There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
I really don't feel pain in my legs when working out unless i screw up my stride or hit uneven sidewalks badly on my current diet and I guess i will just have to figure that out later but i'm not going to stress over what might happen because if your always worried about might happen your going to likely cause it to happen. I live for now and I trust my body to tell me what it wants and needs and it will be addressed if it happens. I have mental clarity with myself and with my body. Look i can see you have some level of concern but You don't have to be concerned because it's not like i'm eating a 1000 calorie diet off twinks and hoho's, I currently don't have anything wrong with me other than the side affects of what i ate a couple of days ago and those are going down. I am maintaining weight and not scared to eat foods when i feel the need. But active or not the only way i can prove it is from mapmywalk but even then you'd still probably not believe me or if you do your likely to still think i'm crazy.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.2 -
I'm posting for info purposes.
It's an article by Vince Gironda from 1980. Ketosis was used by bodybuilders to cut up for contests up to around the early 80s when the trend shifted more toward a gradual slow weight loss by a lower calorie balanced diet.
Ketosis was done by eating only meat, tuna fish, eggs with zero carb except for a small salad or vegetable to help digestion. Unlimited amounts of meat could be eaten. As long as you just ate meat you didn't have to count calories.
Keto sticks were used to test the urine to determine if and when the body entered ketosis. Ketosis made the body use fat stores for energy (since no carbs were eaten) and spared muscle loss.
Training was 5-6 days a week of high volume bodybuilding. Cardio was done several times a week to burn additional calories.
Gironda describes using this diet for long periods of time. He must have been quite a guy because it becomes unpleasant unless you really like meat. It also is stressful on the body both physically and mentally due to the extremely low carbs allowed. Constipation could be a problem as very little fiber is eaten.
Gironda used this diet during his competitive days in the 1940s to get very ripped. He became so ripped for his era that he was considered TOO ripped. The standard for that time was Steve Reeves who was not ripped but probably around 12% bodyfat.
Arnold Schwarzenegger used this same diet.
Enjoy.
unlimited protein would likely kick them out of ketosis because the body would convert any surplus into glucose. Yes body builders would use it and some still do but they normally cycle out at the end so that the glucose would get into the muscles and given it stores a little more water with it make them look fuller. But they still would have to count calories or macros (whichever worked best for them) because upping the protein and fat more than their bodies needed would make them put on a few pounds unless they did gear. there cardio is not what were would consider cardio given they could walk on a treadmill and because of the muscle get their heart rate up. But if a person could handle it they could do it with more veggies because you can eat as much veggies like spinich, kale, and a few more without worrying about falling out of keto. vegans can even do keto if they want though it would be very difficult sense they could only eat veggies with more complex carbs than simple carbs. If you get your veggies in you don't have to worry about getting backed up.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
If you look at her diary, she's tracking fairly well. Her entries all look accurate enough. Unless she's not logging everything.
This is a true case of a body that's been pushed to the limit and is jacked up on cortisol from the stress of over exercising and underfueling.
At this point I'd go so far as to calling what she's doing disordered. She's undereating some days to the point of 600 some odd calories, let along doing Fung's full day fasting ish.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
i run a lot meaning chances are where MayfitnessPal says 1000 + calories it's likely about 500 or so given my heart rate rarely goes over 160 when running. But i don't know what to say my scale is not moving and taping myself i don't notice any changes or have not been for a little wile but that's not really a bad thing.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
If you look at her diary, she's tracking fairly well. Her entries all look accurate enough. Unless she's not logging everything.
This is a true case of a body that's been pushed to the limit and is jacked up on cortisol from the stress of over exercising and underfueling.
At this point I'd go so far as to calling what she's doing disordered. She's undereating some days to the point of 600 some odd calories, let along doing Fung's full day fasting ish.
i was testing a modified alternate day fast if your talking about the 500 calories day of the fats and proteins low to no carbs. Was interested of what would happen.
edit: It was a doctor suggested method to try because he was squish of the alternate day fast.0 -
xhunter561 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
If you look at her diary, she's tracking fairly well. Her entries all look accurate enough. Unless she's not logging everything.
This is a true case of a body that's been pushed to the limit and is jacked up on cortisol from the stress of over exercising and underfueling.
At this point I'd go so far as to calling what she's doing disordered. She's undereating some days to the point of 600 some odd calories, let along doing Fung's full day fasting ish.
i was testing a modified alternate day fast if your talking about the 500 calories day of the fats and proteins low to no carbs. Was interested of what would happen.
edit: It was a doctor suggested method to try because he was squish of the alternate day fast.
Why were you even doing that when you're looking to maintain weight?
Look, I don't know how to spell this out more clearly to you.
You have messed up a lot of hormones in your body, that's the reason the scale is standing where it's at in spite of your activity and your calorie level.
Don't go on about your heart rate and what you think you're burning, because you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. I know you mean well, but you are damaging your body and your long term health and you can fix this if you stop messing around with this nonsense.
No one who runs 40 miles a week needs to be eating as few calories as you're eating, even if you are being a total slug the rest of the day.
This has nothing to do with the foods you eat, or your special body or your medical conditions. No matter what you think. You're wrong.
I don't know any other way to say it.
If you want to improve the outlook for your future health, share your current age and height. You've already shared your weight. We might be able to extrapolate from data from that to help you.
You need to eat more calories to maintain your weight, and you can add them. You can still eat keto if that's your preference, but you need to eat more food.
Also? If you're not looking to lose weight, stop it with the fasting nonsense. Fung is full of BS and there is no benefit to it.
If you like to run fasted (I know it, I like to run fasted too), just run first thing in the morning. Stop it with the full day fasts. No one maintaining their weight needs to fast unless it's for religious reasons.3 -
xhunter561 wrote: »I'm posting for info purposes.
It's an article by Vince Gironda from 1980. Ketosis was used by bodybuilders to cut up for contests up to around the early 80s when the trend shifted more toward a gradual slow weight loss by a lower calorie balanced diet.
Ketosis was done by eating only meat, tuna fish, eggs with zero carb except for a small salad or vegetable to help digestion. Unlimited amounts of meat could be eaten. As long as you just ate meat you didn't have to count calories.
Keto sticks were used to test the urine to determine if and when the body entered ketosis. Ketosis made the body use fat stores for energy (since no carbs were eaten) and spared muscle loss.
Training was 5-6 days a week of high volume bodybuilding. Cardio was done several times a week to burn additional calories.
Gironda describes using this diet for long periods of time. He must have been quite a guy because it becomes unpleasant unless you really like meat. It also is stressful on the body both physically and mentally due to the extremely low carbs allowed. Constipation could be a problem as very little fiber is eaten.
Gironda used this diet during his competitive days in the 1940s to get very ripped. He became so ripped for his era that he was considered TOO ripped. The standard for that time was Steve Reeves who was not ripped but probably around 12% bodyfat.
Arnold Schwarzenegger used this same diet.
Enjoy.
unlimited protein would likely kick them out of ketosis because the body would convert any surplus into glucose. Yes body builders would use it and some still do but they normally cycle out at the end so that the glucose would get into the muscles and given it stores a little more water with it make them look fuller. But they still would have to count calories or macros (whichever worked best for them) because upping the protein and fat more than their bodies needed would make them put on a few pounds unless they did gear. there cardio is not what were would consider cardio given they could walk on a treadmill and because of the muscle get their heart rate up. But if a person could handle it they could do it with more veggies because you can eat as much veggies like spinich, kale, and a few more without worrying about falling out of keto. vegans can even do keto if they want though it would be very difficult sense they could only eat veggies with more complex carbs than simple carbs. If you get your veggies in you don't have to worry about getting backed up.
Protein only converts to glucose through glucenogenisis when it has to; its no different than fats converting to glucose. Its a demand driven process, not a supply driven process.
And there is really no evidence that demonstrates when or if a person can be kicked out of ketosis by eating protein. Thats a myth promoted by Jimmy Moore.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
If you look at her diary, she's tracking fairly well. Her entries all look accurate enough. Unless she's not logging everything.
This is a true case of a body that's been pushed to the limit and is jacked up on cortisol from the stress of over exercising and underfueling.
Maybe, but there are other explanations (as you note) and I prefer to assume the more positive one. I think it's REALLY hard to get to the point where you are maintaining on less (possibly far less) than 1200 as a healthy 120 lb person who is not that old, and so I am skeptical that one would feel fine but have such incredible adjustments, but clearly we don't know.0 -
xhunter561 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »xhunter561 wrote: »
where did I say you had to do keto to loss weight? please highlight it. I personally don't care what method you use but as for the so called doctor if I listened to the vast majority of them I'd still be overweight, sick and on meds for depression and the pain. Doctors don't get more than a few hours of nutritional education and mainly only know how to treat symptoms not prevent symptoms. Most of them get Free stuff for pushing drugs off on people.xhunter561 wrote: »Keto is unnecessary unless you have health issues related to carbs, undisciplined with carbs, you have a photo shoot, job or whatever that requires you to lose weight fast in a short amount of time or if you simply just enjoy that type of diet. If you do keto simply because you think it's superior to any other diet... you are wrong, no diet is king...the only thing that matters in the end is that you eat less calories than you burn to lose weight unless you have a medical issue that makes losing fat harder than the rest of the population. In that case, you listen to your doctor's advice.
not really it can be very useful to cycle keto every so often for part of a year then switch just to give your body practice with ketones and glucose though i can relate to the health issues. too much simple carbs in a day normally causes me very bad pain both in my joints and nerves, that as well as headaches and everything else. though with keto people need to understand it's very important to get their veggies when cycling keto even after you are keto adapted. losing the weight is no good if your insides are torn to hell or develop a fatty liver because you were not careful. though when it comes to watching or measuring macros it makes it kinda easy sense your protein and carbs are set to a certain range depending on your own genetic and athletic needs. i find keto works best with less processed foods and at the min. 15g of fiber carbs from good sources.
So much bs, I don't even know where to start. As I stated before, unless you have MEDICAL condition that was told you by a professional doctor (which is what I said in my previous post) where it is required for you to give up on carbs, keto is unnecessary to lose weight and that is a fact. I knew one keto fanatic would pop out of the woodwork and start spewing nonsense... Your personal opinion does not make keto an advantage for fat loss. You may feel better with keto, but that's personal preference. I enjoy IF on a cut, because I enjoy eating bigger meal, does it mean that it's the most effective diet...hell no, it's just my preference. In terms of fat loss, IF isn't any better or worse than keto. Both give the same result calorie for calorie.
GottaBurnEm: Get sour all you want but the fact is still fact 1000 to 1200 is a general recommendation and with all the processing of food and drop in quality and nutrition that's why the recommendations keep going up over the years. I'm not trying to come off as trying to be mean it's just the vast majority of food out there is not very high in nutrition. Look at the food labels on your drinks and foods if you want to see, vast majority of the things out there have added sugars or alternatives like dextrose or sucrose. More and More sugar is added over the years to make the products sell more and is rampet in protein shakes, protein bars, and other 'enhancements' It's very hard to find a protein supplement or other 'healthy' item that doesn't have that much of the stuff. But anyways have a good rest of the day.
1000 to 1200 is no one's maintenance calories and certainly not mine, and I'm a good deal older than you.
Why do people present the false dichotomy of a keto diet vs. a sugar laden diet full of processed foods (not that there's anything wrong with these things in moderation), but since you're addressing me, I'll use my diet in comparison.
As usual, the person claiming processed foods are bad eats plenty of them.
Plus, as you know, one of the food groups highest in micros is also primarily carbs -- vegetables. I have some strong ideas about what a nutrient-rich diet involves (which I think you share!) and it's thus additionally ironic to be lectured about how only a poor diet makes you need more than 1000-1200, regardless of activity, etc.There is no one who weighs 120 pounds who runs 40 miles a week who needs to eat so little to maintain. You are stressing your body, risking muscle mass, and trust me, your bones won't thank you when you're older either.
This is true. Even assuming sedentary other than the running, that would be a loss of about 2 lb/week, probably. So the counting must be messed up in some way, which is a relief, as otherwise that would be a dangerous deficit.
i run a lot meaning chances are where MayfitnessPal says 1000 + calories it's likely about 500 or so given my heart rate rarely goes over 160 when running. But i don't know what to say my scale is not moving and taping myself i don't notice any changes or have not been for a little wile but that's not really a bad thing.
Heart rate shouldn't really matter for calorie burn. If you know weight, speed, and distance (and time, which is available from the other measures), then you should have a pretty good calorie estimate and running a lot won't change it.1 -
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