How is binge mentality treated?
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CarvedTones
Posts: 2,340 Member
I am curious because I have suffered from it and possibly will again. When I gained weight, a lot of my meals were really low calorie, like a packet of tuna or salmon and a salad for around 200 calories for lunch. But I would binge on sweets or have what I call binge mentality at some meals. For example, going out for lunch and ordering a full dinner entree with a baked potato (with butter and sour cream), eating 3 pieces of bread, a large portion of shared appetizers and then every single morsel of the dinner. A meal like that goes over 2000 calories. Binges were things like ice cream, where I might eat close to a half gallon sometimes or several donuts or muffins when they were put out in the break room. I haven't done this in months while I have been losing weight, but I have cycled before, losing weight and then getting back into binge mentality and gaining it back.
Anyway, I was wondering what sort of therapy or what is used to help curb this. The hard part is that every time I am where I am now, I think I don't need it because I have beat it. When I get to goal is when I really have to worry. I somehow manage to keep it at bay while I am driven to lose weight and I generally lose pretty quickly because without the binge mentality of getting the most food and finishing it all, I really eat pretty light; in fact I have logged some days that really weren't healthy. So I go between the extremes - feast or famine - and I know it isn't good for me and I need to break the cycle. I want to break it at the bottom, of course...
Anyway, I was wondering what sort of therapy or what is used to help curb this. The hard part is that every time I am where I am now, I think I don't need it because I have beat it. When I get to goal is when I really have to worry. I somehow manage to keep it at bay while I am driven to lose weight and I generally lose pretty quickly because without the binge mentality of getting the most food and finishing it all, I really eat pretty light; in fact I have logged some days that really weren't healthy. So I go between the extremes - feast or famine - and I know it isn't good for me and I need to break the cycle. I want to break it at the bottom, of course...
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Replies
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Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with therapist (usually an RN or licensed clinical social worker + possibly other medical/therapy credentials) who is at an eating disorder facility or has experience working with ED clients.4
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I have approached this as a forever, ongoing, neverending row of daily challenges project. I don't demonize any foods, food groups or nutrients anymore. Now I aim to see things in proper context, perspective; food intake is about dosage and frequency and over time. I have also redefined myself, I am now a person who doesn't routinely overeat. I've made it more difficult to overeat - I don't stock up on too tempting and easy to eat foods. I've also made it easier to eat well - I plan balanced and varied meals I want to eat, schedule shopping and cooking. I've figured out that it's allowed to say no thanks, and I'm not depriving myself by telling myself no sometimes. More, faster and louder isn't always better.
Some of this is techniques from cognitive behavior therapy, some of it is ancient eastern philosophy. Some of it is "mom said so"
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fitoverfortymom wrote: »Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with therapist (usually an RN or licensed clinical social worker + possibly other medical/therapy credentials) who is at an eating disorder facility or has experience working with ED clients.
This. Do not use your family doctor for advice on this. You will need to go to therapy for several sessions to exercise these practices. However these sessions are often better to be done while you are actually having binges. They usually ask you to document it and ask how you were feeling what was going on In your life etc and use that information to further help identify the circumstances to tailor your CBT to you.4 -
Dialectical Behavioral Therapy2
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I used to binge when I restricted myself. I would eat super clean all week then get to the weekend and lose it. It sounds like you might be similar...eating low calorie meals and then gorging.
Some practical tips to help ya that have helped me:
1. Eat before going out to eat. No, really! When headed to a restaurant I'll eat something filling and clean first. I make better food choices when I'm not ravenous.
2. When eating at a restaurant, go online to their menu and make a healthy choice before you get there. Again, when I'm in the atmosphere and looking at the menu and seeing the people around me eating, I'm less likely to order the right thing.
3. Don't be too hard on yourself. Go ahead, order the dinner entree with a baked potato. But, get the veggies, leave off calorie dense items like bacon, mayo, sour cream and cheese.
4. Remember the feelings of the times you've eaten healthy vs unhealthy. I have NEVER left a restaurant regretting eating the grilled chicken but when I get the bacon double cheeseburger I almost always regret it.
5. Leash yourself but with some slack. I know we're talking about binging so this is easier said than done, but LET yourself have a donut in the breakroom...but take it back to your desk. One. Thats it.
6. Find healthy alternatives. Halo Top ice cream, etc.
7. Get your head straight about the "cycles". This isn't cycles, it's your life. You WILL have ups and downs, thats a given. Just make sure you have more ups than downs. I have made much better progress since I've stopped focusing on results and focused on actions and making good choices. Results will come.18 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »fitoverfortymom wrote: »Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with therapist (usually an RN or licensed clinical social worker + possibly other medical/therapy credentials) who is at an eating disorder facility or has experience working with ED clients.
This. Do not use your family doctor for advice on this. You will need to go to therapy for several sessions to exercise these practices. However these sessions are often better to be done while you are actually having binges. They usually ask you to document it and ask how you were feeling what was going on In your life etc and use that information to further help identify the circumstances to tailor your CBT to you.
That makes sense, though I would rather fix it and not have the next binge instead of trying to treat it while it is ongoing. I also fear that I would not. There is a dark element to binge mentality; when it is ongoing it seems justified and under control and no one is to be trusted. I can talk about it freely in anonymity at times when it isn't an ongoing problem and would not have a problem talking to a therapist about it in these times. But when it is happening I am likely to clam up about it.2 -
CarvedTones wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »fitoverfortymom wrote: »Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with therapist (usually an RN or licensed clinical social worker + possibly other medical/therapy credentials) who is at an eating disorder facility or has experience working with ED clients.
This. Do not use your family doctor for advice on this. You will need to go to therapy for several sessions to exercise these practices. However these sessions are often better to be done while you are actually having binges. They usually ask you to document it and ask how you were feeling what was going on In your life etc and use that information to further help identify the circumstances to tailor your CBT to you.
That makes sense, though I would rather fix it and not have the next binge instead of trying to treat it while it is ongoing. I also fear that I would not. There is a dark element to binge mentality; when it is ongoing it seems justified and under control and no one is to be trusted. I can talk about it freely in anonymity at times when it isn't an ongoing problem and would not have a problem talking to a therapist about it in these times. But when it is happening I am likely to clam up about it.
You will get advice but without the detail of emotions and circumstances in the moment you may find it harder to practice these sessions once one starts. They are not going to be able to give you an absolute perfect way to never have them ever again they are going to give you coping strategies to help end them quicker or make them less severe or emotionally taxing and let you recognise when something is about to happen.
I can assure you that I understand the emotional aspect as I have a clinically diagnosed binge eating disorder to which I am medicated.1 -
joemac1988 wrote: »I used to binge when I restricted myself. I would eat super clean all week then get to the weekend and lose it.
This sounds so much like what I used to do it's scary. I still find myself sometimes falling into this cycle if I am not eating enough of my exercise calories back. It's amazing...
The posts on CBT from others are accurate, as well as it being cued by emotions. No fun.1 -
joemac1988 wrote: »7. Get your head straight about the "cycles". This isn't cycles, it's your life. You WILL have ups and downs, thats a given. Just make sure you have more ups than downs. I have made much better progress since I've stopped focusing on results and focused on actions and making good choices. Results will come.
Actually, my life does revolve around cycles; I have type II bipolar disorder. It always seems to be when I am depressed that I binge. Somewhat recent med changes have me more stable so that the roller coaster doesn't go as high or low or as often. I am hoping that reducing frequency and severity of those cycles will have a ripple effect. But I don't want to find out I am wrong by going into binge eating mode.3 -
This issue you're confronting maybe something you want to discuss with your current doctor who is prescribing your bipolar medication.
To myself at least, and based on your prior descriptions, it sounds as if your behavior towards food swings hand in glove with your mood state.
Hopefully the moderating effect of the current medication will continue throughout the cycle.3 -
My suggestion is, find a psychologist, counselor, or other licensed mental health professional who is experienced working with folks with bipolar disorders as well as eating disorders. The aforementioned CBT and DBT are often used with eating disorders, as well as the relatively recent treatment modality called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). Do you have a psychiatrist who works with you, not just your general practitioner? The ideal situation would be having someone for the talk therapy and a psychiatrist to manage your meds, and sign releases so they can talk to each other. Some psychiatrists partner with a mental health professional for the talk therapy - their charge rates are generally lower than the psychiatrist's. You do NOT need to wait until you actually have a bingeing incident to get help.4
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For the record.. i did not say he had to wait, however i did say that it would be more beneficial if he was experiencing the emotions and issues during the therapy, I can easily describe my emotions from past experiences but it's not going to be the same raw emotion i felt when going through it, it's not going to give the psychologist the same emotional communication when dealing with the experience in the now instead of from the past. The shame i felt from binge eating and the dark place my mind goes during that experience where i express raw emotions gives the psychologist a chance to coach me through a real life scenario, as apposed to if i went and described how i felt and they offered suggestions on how to cope.. Cause you know what? When a binge would finally happen, especially if any strategies given to help possible prevention did not work, it would take seconds for the shame and dark place to wash over me.. so negative.. so self hating.. when you hate yourself.. really truly hate yourself.. you believe you are hopeless and when someone feels hopeless, there is a good chance that the suggestions given while you were there probably won't even be considered at that point because you would of convinced yourself whats the point they probably won't even work anyway. Where as, if you are in therapy during these episodes, being coached while in that raw hatred and shame and negativity, and the method does bring you around quicker before the binge eating becomes very out of control like it did, the next time when it happens, you will know it does work, you will put forth some effort to try it again.. because when people feel depressed, hate themselves and feel the way they feel, there is never a point in that period where they wish they could stay that way, they desire to feel happy.. which is what will give that push to try something they have already experienced that works.1
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Another vote for CBT, preferably with a professional, but meanwhile, this book on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well.
The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person
Can thinking and eating like a thin person be learned, similar to learning to drive or use a computer? Beck (Cognitive Therapy for Challenging Problems) contends so, based on decades of work with patients who have lost pounds and maintained weight through Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Beck's six-week program adapts CBT, a therapeutic system developed by Beck's father, Aaron, in the 1960s, to specific challenges faced by yo-yo dieters, including negative thinking, bargaining, emotional eating, bingeing, and eating out. Beck counsels readers day-by-day, introducing new elements (creating advantage response cards, choosing a diet, enlisting a diet coach, making a weight-loss graph) progressively and offering tools to help readers stay focused (writing exercises, to-do lists, ways to counter negative thoughts). There are no eating plans, calorie counts, recipes or exercises; according to Beck, any healthy diet will work if readers learn to think differently about eating and food. Beck's book is like an extended therapy session with a diet coach. (Apr.)
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I would talk to your physician or psychiatrist and get a referral to a mental health professional who deals in this field, and discuss options for your personal situation with them. Just because one person responds to a certain type of therapy does not mean that it will be the best approach for your situation. Please don't listen to people on the internet about what type of therapy will be beneficial for you, or try to define/diagnose your situation based on their experiences.
MFP has a page with eating disorder resources that you may find helpful: https://myfitnesspal.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1575987-eating-disorder-resources0 -
All of this is such good advice. There is one thing not mentioned yet that is make or break for me: avoid undereating. Sure, you don't want to overeat if you are trying to lose weight, but people often don't recognize undereating is just as counterproductive. When my deficit is too steep, I can hang onto it for a few days, but basically I am a binge waiting to happen. The ultra-lo-cal-weekdays-binge-weekends describes the whole decade of my 20's, so I can relate.
Seriously, it is worth taking a moment to reevaluate whether your calorie goal is appropriate (deficit not too aggressive) for your current weight/goal. Then plan meals so that you get enough on average to avert a binge. I'm not saying it is the whole answer and professional consultation on mental aspects would not help, too -- it would! But this is something you can take into your own hands starting tonight. It's amazing how much proper nutrition can impact how we feel mentally. Best to you!5 -
I do have a psychiatrist and therapist for medication and counseling, respectively. I chose my therapist based on expertise in mood disorders and substance abuse, but I should probably broach this subject as well.3
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All of this is such good advice. There is one thing not mentioned yet that is make or break for me: avoid undereating. Sure, you don't want to overeat if you are trying to lose weight, but people often don't recognize undereating is just as counterproductive. When my deficit is too steep, I can hang onto it for a few days, but basically I am a binge waiting to happen. The ultra-lo-cal-weekdays-binge-weekends describes the whole decade of my 20's, so I can relate.
Seriously, it is worth taking a moment to reevaluate whether your calorie goal is appropriate (deficit not too aggressive) for your current weight/goal. Then plan meals so that you get enough on average to avert a binge. I'm not saying it is the whole answer and professional consultation on mental aspects would not help, too -- it would! But this is something you can take into your own hands starting tonight. It's amazing how much proper nutrition can impact how we feel mentally. Best to you!
I am actively working on that with some success. I did undereat for over two months this time. I have done it for longer in the past. I have only been tracking for the last couple of months and found out just how low my extreme diet was. I got a thread shut down for discussing it. The last few days I have gotten up to the suggested minimum or within 15% and just today saw the scale move down a pound, which helps overcome the ridiculous paranoia that I won't lose weight if I eat that much. It all sounds so simple when I discuss it rationally, but I am not always a reasonable person.3 -
CarvedTones wrote: »All of this is such good advice. There is one thing not mentioned yet that is make or break for me: avoid undereating. Sure, you don't want to overeat if you are trying to lose weight, but people often don't recognize undereating is just as counterproductive. When my deficit is too steep, I can hang onto it for a few days, but basically I am a binge waiting to happen. The ultra-lo-cal-weekdays-binge-weekends describes the whole decade of my 20's, so I can relate.
Seriously, it is worth taking a moment to reevaluate whether your calorie goal is appropriate (deficit not too aggressive) for your current weight/goal. Then plan meals so that you get enough on average to avert a binge. I'm not saying it is the whole answer and professional consultation on mental aspects would not help, too -- it would! But this is something you can take into your own hands starting tonight. It's amazing how much proper nutrition can impact how we feel mentally. Best to you!
I am actively working on that with some success. I did undereat for over two months this time. I have done it for longer in the past. I have only been tracking for the last couple of months and found out just how low my extreme diet was. I got a thread shut down for discussing it. The last few days I have gotten up to the suggested minimum or within 15% and just today saw the scale move down a pound, which helps overcome the ridiculous paranoia that I won't lose weight if I eat that much. It all sounds so simple when I discuss it rationally, but I am not always a reasonable person.
@CarvedTones , I've read several of your posts and commented on one or two. I'm in here on this one just to say how happy I am to read that you've managed to raise your calories to a healthy level, and are seeing reinforcing weight loss results.
None of us makes perfect progress perfectly, but you are clearly progressing in managing your challenges, and getting your feet on the path to success.
So wonderful - kudos! You can do this, just keep up this beautiful persistence when able, and return to it if there are any few difficulties along the way. Granny is cheering from the sidelines over here!
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CarvedTones wrote: »All of this is such good advice. There is one thing not mentioned yet that is make or break for me: avoid undereating. Sure, you don't want to overeat if you are trying to lose weight, but people often don't recognize undereating is just as counterproductive. When my deficit is too steep, I can hang onto it for a few days, but basically I am a binge waiting to happen. The ultra-lo-cal-weekdays-binge-weekends describes the whole decade of my 20's, so I can relate.
Seriously, it is worth taking a moment to reevaluate whether your calorie goal is appropriate (deficit not too aggressive) for your current weight/goal. Then plan meals so that you get enough on average to avert a binge. I'm not saying it is the whole answer and professional consultation on mental aspects would not help, too -- it would! But this is something you can take into your own hands starting tonight. It's amazing how much proper nutrition can impact how we feel mentally. Best to you!
I am actively working on that with some success. I did undereat for over two months this time. I have done it for longer in the past. I have only been tracking for the last couple of months and found out just how low my extreme diet was. I got a thread shut down for discussing it. The last few days I have gotten up to the suggested minimum or within 15% and just today saw the scale move down a pound, which helps overcome the ridiculous paranoia that I won't lose weight if I eat that much. It all sounds so simple when I discuss it rationally, but I am not always a reasonable person.
@CarvedTones , I've read several of your posts and commented on one or two. I'm in here on this one just to say how happy I am to read that you've managed to raise your calories to a healthy level, and are seeing reinforcing weight loss results.
None of us makes perfect progress perfectly, but you are clearly progressing in managing your challenges, and getting your feet on the path to success.
So wonderful - kudos! You can do this, just keep up this beautiful persistence when able, and return to it if there are any few difficulties along the way. Granny is cheering from the sidelines over here!
^^^^^^^ All of that.3 -
CarvedTones wrote: »All of this is such good advice. There is one thing not mentioned yet that is make or break for me: avoid undereating. Sure, you don't want to overeat if you are trying to lose weight, but people often don't recognize undereating is just as counterproductive. When my deficit is too steep, I can hang onto it for a few days, but basically I am a binge waiting to happen. The ultra-lo-cal-weekdays-binge-weekends describes the whole decade of my 20's, so I can relate.
Seriously, it is worth taking a moment to reevaluate whether your calorie goal is appropriate (deficit not too aggressive) for your current weight/goal. Then plan meals so that you get enough on average to avert a binge. I'm not saying it is the whole answer and professional consultation on mental aspects would not help, too -- it would! But this is something you can take into your own hands starting tonight. It's amazing how much proper nutrition can impact how we feel mentally. Best to you!
I am actively working on that with some success. I did undereat for over two months this time. I have done it for longer in the past. I have only been tracking for the last couple of months and found out just how low my extreme diet was. I got a thread shut down for discussing it. The last few days I have gotten up to the suggested minimum or within 15% and just today saw the scale move down a pound, which helps overcome the ridiculous paranoia that I won't lose weight if I eat that much. It all sounds so simple when I discuss it rationally, but I am not always a reasonable person.
@CarvedTones , I've read several of your posts and commented on one or two. I'm in here on this one just to say how happy I am to read that you've managed to raise your calories to a healthy level, and are seeing reinforcing weight loss results.
None of us makes perfect progress perfectly, but you are clearly progressing in managing your challenges, and getting your feet on the path to success.
So wonderful - kudos! You can do this, just keep up this beautiful persistence when able, and return to it if there are any few difficulties along the way. Granny is cheering from the sidelines over here!
Over the 10 days prior to today, my average is within 15% of 1500 (the weekly report notes days within 15% since you don't hit the mark exactly each day). I still need to bump it up; only Thanksgiving exceeded 1500, and not by much.
It isn't just the paranoia about whether I will lose that is keeping my counts on the low side; I always ate light outside of bingeing. I am including "mini binges" like getting a couple of extra donuts in the break room or eating a dozen fun size candy bars from a candy dish during the day and "meal binges" where I went way overboard on purpose. A lot of the time I would have just a banana for breakfast and a salad for lunch.0
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