Squat rack noobie

anyWendy
anyWendy Posts: 97 Member
edited November 23 in Fitness and Exercise
I'm comfortable using all of the weight machines at my gym, and have done a fair amount of dumbbell work, butt am just starting to progress to barbells.

If I can leg press 180 (3x8) on the machine, where should I start with barbell squats? Best to start with an empty bar and work on form, or something else?

I've been practicing form with just bodyweight squats and feel good with them.
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Replies

  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    Agreed, start with the bar. It's not so much the weight as it is the technique. Squatting free weights is much different than pressing guided, stabilized weight.
  • leggup
    leggup Posts: 2,942 Member
    edited December 2017
    I started with barbell squats-- 20 lbs, one 10 lb weight on each shoulder. Then I went up to 30 lbs total with barbells, then the women's bar (it weighs less--- 33 lbs total), then just the standard olympic bar- 45 lbs. Barbells are harder than the empty bar. They have more to stabilize.
  • TJ_Rugger
    TJ_Rugger Posts: 166 Member
    Agreed with everything here. Start light and go deep in the squat. You want your thighs parallel to the ground. Some people say "*kitten* to Grass" but that can often cause a lot of stress on your knees.

    Another tip might be to put a bench in the squat rack so that when you squat, you go down until your butt touches the bench and then go back up. You want just a part of the bench in the rack, not the whole thing where you’re straddling it. Just enough so that when you go down your butt hits it. It might be good for getting started so that you get used to getting all the way down. Just my $0.02. Also, if you have any trainers at your gym walking around you might just ask them for some quick tips and maybe ask them to look at your form as you're getting started.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    Buy Starting Strength book 3rd addition read and follow it. It's by far the best investment besides a qualified lifting coach one can do.

    Your first day should be three sets of five at a weight that challenges you but holds form described in the book.
  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Concur with starting with the bar to get comfortable with the postural and form differences. Do some reading on form and bracing with your core.
  • pogiguy05
    pogiguy05 Posts: 1,583 Member
    I also agree with empty bar and get the form right first. you do not want to hurt your knees. then add weight in increments and eventually you will find your window.
  • anyWendy
    anyWendy Posts: 97 Member
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.
  • lorrpb
    lorrpb Posts: 11,463 Member
    leggup wrote: »
    I started with barbell squats-- 20 lbs, one 10 lb weight on each shoulder. Then I went up to 30 lbs total with barbells, then the women's bar (it weighs less--- 33 lbs total), then just the standard olympic bar- 45 lbs. Barbells are harder than the empty bar. They have more to stabilize.

    I think you mean dumbbell rather than barbell? But a progression like this is good. Some people start with a broomstick pole to master form.
  • leggup
    leggup Posts: 2,942 Member
    lorrpb wrote: »
    leggup wrote: »
    I started with barbell squats-- 20 lbs, one 10 lb weight on each shoulder. Then I went up to 30 lbs total with barbells, then the women's bar (it weighs less--- 33 lbs total), then just the standard olympic bar- 45 lbs. Barbells are harder than the empty bar. They have more to stabilize.

    I think you mean dumbbell rather than barbell? But a progression like this is good. Some people start with a broomstick pole to master form.

    Yes haha I meant dumbbell, wooops.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    Slightly off topic but related question. My gym has a few barbells with fixed weights instead of plates. I think they range from 30- 100+ pounds. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does the indicated weight include the weight of the bar? If not, how would I know how to account for the bar? Like OP, I am very new to barbells. My trainer just had me squat with this the other day and I assumed the 30 pound barbell she gave me was 30 lbs total.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    edited December 2017
    A 30 pound "long dumbbell" weighs 30 pounds including the bar.

    So yes, the indicated weight includes the bar.

    Long dumbbell is just how I think of them.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Slightly off topic but related question. My gym has a few barbells with fixed weights instead of plates. I think they range from 30- 100+ pounds. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does the indicated weight include the weight of the bar? If not, how would I know how to account for the bar? Like OP, I am very new to barbells. My trainer just had me squat with this the other day and I assumed the 30 pound barbell she gave me was 30 lbs total.

    Yep, we have those too. The weight marked on them is the total weight, including the bar. As stanman said, think of them as really long dumbbells.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    TJ_Rugger wrote: »
    Agreed with everything here. Start light and go deep in the squat. You want your thighs parallel to the ground. Some people say "*kitten* to Grass" but that can often cause a lot of stress on your knees.

    Another tip might be to put a bench in the squat rack so that when you squat, you go down until your butt touches the bench and then go back up. You want just a part of the bench in the rack, not the whole thing where you’re straddling it. Just enough so that when you go down your butt hits it. It might be good for getting started so that you get used to getting all the way down. Just my $0.02. Also, if you have any trainers at your gym walking around you might just ask them for some quick tips and maybe ask them to look at your form as you're getting started.

    In both cases your advice is not very good. Squatting lower tends to put more of the strain on your hips. Squatting higher tends to put the strain on your knees. Squatting to or past parallel is good advice for just about everyone.

    Using a bench for a quasi box squat is also not a good idea. The benches are way too tall for just about everyone (they're too tall for me and I'm 6'3"). If you want to box squat, use an actual box designed for the purpose. I really don't recommend box squats for beginners regardless.
  • BusyRaeNOTBusty
    BusyRaeNOTBusty Posts: 7,166 Member
    edited December 2017
    I would add that when people say "to parallel" the top of your legs should be parallel with the ground, not the bottom. If you have big thighs and butt (eh-hem), then there's a good 6" or more difference.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    I would add that when people say "to parallel" the top of your legs should be parallel with the ground, not the bottom. If you have big thighs and butt (eh-hem), then there's a good 6" or more difference.

    Actually "parallel" is when your hip crease passes your knees. It's possible for that to happen before the top of your legs passes strictly level.

    You'll need a spotter or a video to get a proper evaluation
  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    What if one struggles with getting "low enough." Is that a form issue or a keep working at it issue?
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    edited December 2017
    What if one struggles with getting "low enough." Is that a form issue or a keep working at it issue?

    It's a It depends issue.

    It could be form, it could be structure(which is form). It could be misunderstanding of form.

    Post a video thread and you'll probably get some quality commentary.
  • chispaza
    chispaza Posts: 153 Member
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    chispaza wrote: »
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.

    Stronglifts is suboptimal compared to Starting Strength for a novice lifter who wants to get strong ASAP whole holding form.

    Five sets of five is unnecessary higher volume and will stall earlier than three sets of five. Twenty five reps is more appropriate for a intermediate.
  • chispaza
    chispaza Posts: 153 Member
    edited December 2017
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    chispaza wrote: »
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.

    Stronglifts is suboptimal compared to Starting Strength for a novice lifter who wants to get strong ASAP whole holding form.

    Five sets of five is unnecessary higher volume and will stall earlier than three sets of five. Twenty five reps is more appropriate for a intermediate.

    I started Strong Lifts as a novice lifter and it has worked well for me. I do work hard to keep good form and I don't always increase the weight every time if I feel like form is suffering, I'll keep weight the same until I can do that weight with good form. And I did just change my squats to 3x5 instead of 5x5 as it's just too much for me right now to do 5x5 on those as the weight increased. I am planning on working back up to 5x5 on them soon. Just wanted to give OP another option for a beginner program.
  • fitoverfortymom
    fitoverfortymom Posts: 3,452 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    chispaza wrote: »
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.

    Stronglifts is suboptimal compared to Starting Strength for a novice lifter who wants to get strong ASAP whole holding form.

    Five sets of five is unnecessary higher volume and will stall earlier than three sets of five. Twenty five reps is more appropriate for a intermediate.
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    chispaza wrote: »
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.

    Stronglifts is suboptimal compared to Starting Strength for a novice lifter who wants to get strong ASAP whole holding form.

    Five sets of five is unnecessary higher volume and will stall earlier than three sets of five. Twenty five reps is more appropriate for a intermediate.

    TBH, I was dead set on doing Stronglifts (just starting out) until I remembered I purchased a digital copy of starting strength. Just followed the instructions on "how to squat" and lo and behold I squatted. I am very much a beginner (in fact, I ditched the notion of lifting back in March because I was a bit overwhelmed by it and intimidated to go to the gym, still being quite a bit overweight).

    I stuck with running, which I am glad I did because I have also achieved some great success running--but it's clear I need to work on retaining and gaining some lean muscle mass from a near 100lb weight loss. I'll still do running, but lifting will make me a better runner and get my body looking more like I want it to look like. I'm roughly 10lbs from maintenance and am very tired of eating in a deficit (even at losing .5lbs per week). I feel like a steady beginner lifting program complimented by *some* running is where I want to be at the moment.

    And the gym doesn't scare me any more.

    OP--sorry I derailed your thread--but it helped me have my "aha" moment I needed to find and work toward my next fitness goal.
  • Lean59man
    Lean59man Posts: 714 Member
    Squatting is pretty natural.

    healthy-pee-or-urinate-squatting-posture-for-male_07.jpg
  • lorrpb
    lorrpb Posts: 11,463 Member
    What if one struggles with getting "low enough." Is that a form issue or a keep working at it issue?

    It can be a weight/strength issue. Can you get to parallel at body weight, bar only, whatever is a lighter weight for you and just have trouble when going up? If so, it could be just keep working on it. You need to increase strength perhaps with more intermediate weights.
  • shor0814
    shor0814 Posts: 559 Member
    chispaza wrote: »
    anyWendy wrote: »
    Thank you all! I had originally planned to wait until I'm a little closer to goal weight to start on a real free weight lifting program (sw 225 cw 201 gw 165, 5'8"), but I am feeling like I'm ready to jump in now.

    Will get Starting Strength - have seen lots of recommendations for it.

    Strong Lifts is another one you might look at. It's simple and there's an app you can get and just follow what it tells you to do.

    Arguments about SS vs SL aside, the Starting Strength book is invaluable and extremely detailed. Even if you use SL, get the Starting Strength book and read cover to cover.

    The other thing to consider is that Rippetoe is a known quantity, the other guy, not so much.
  • ijsantos2005
    ijsantos2005 Posts: 306 Member
    edited December 2017
    The StrongLifts app has settings that allow you to switch the rep scheme to 3x5, so there’s that.

    But I would recommend Starting Strength as well do to reasons posted above.
  • anyWendy
    anyWendy Posts: 97 Member

    OP--sorry I derailed your thread--but it helped me have my "aha" moment I needed to find and work toward my next fitness goal.

    Totally not necessary! I'm enjoying the additional questions and comments that have come off of my original question! Glad it was helpful for you, too!
  • anyWendy
    anyWendy Posts: 97 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Slightly off topic but related question. My gym has a few barbells with fixed weights instead of plates. I think they range from 30- 100+ pounds. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does the indicated weight include the weight of the bar? If not, how would I know how to account for the bar? Like OP, I am very new to barbells. My trainer just had me squat with this the other day and I assumed the 30 pound barbell she gave me was 30 lbs total.

    Another question:
    Any reason not to start by squatting with these "long dumbells"?

    I get that at higher weights, the rack is needed to safely get in and out of position, but if I'm starting at low weights to practice form, any reason not to use these? (I ask more because of availability. Racks are more often in use. )
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    anyWendy wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Slightly off topic but related question. My gym has a few barbells with fixed weights instead of plates. I think they range from 30- 100+ pounds. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Does the indicated weight include the weight of the bar? If not, how would I know how to account for the bar? Like OP, I am very new to barbells. My trainer just had me squat with this the other day and I assumed the 30 pound barbell she gave me was 30 lbs total.

    Another question:
    Any reason not to start by squatting with these "long dumbells"?

    I get that at higher weights, the rack is needed to safely get in and out of position, but if I'm starting at low weights to practice form, any reason not to use these? (I ask more because of availability. Racks are more often in use. )

    If you can sit it comfortably on your back and get your hands placed correctly then it's perfectly fine.
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