Precision Nutrition
Replies
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
Your logic/argument/view is pretty skewed and severely biased to the point it's of no help in this thread because it's so far out. People get help and coaching in so many different aspects of life yet you feel nutritional coaching isn't worth it. And self admitted that your opinion doesn't make sense. It's a bit insulting to anyone who has sought help and that anyone who offer those services is a money grubbing hack.7 -
If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
There's this wonderful invention called "Google", use it.
3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
There's this wonderful invention called "Google", use it.lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
There's this wonderful invention called "Google", use it.
You're the one who made the claim about "professional guidance." I think it's up to you to offer evidence that the guidance is, in fact, professional.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
Your logic/argument/view is pretty skewed and severely biased to the point it's of no help in this thread because it's so far out. People get help and coaching in so many different aspects of life yet you feel nutritional coaching isn't worth it. And self admitted that your opinion doesn't make sense. It's a bit insulting to anyone who has sought help and that anyone who offer those services is a money grubbing hack.
This thread probably was not the place for me to try to work out why I feel the way I do, but I'd like to note that your response is really not fair to what I said. I was pretty open about acknowledging that I'd realized from the discussion that it was coming from a bias, which the point about personal trainers was causing me to think about (I had a post immediately after the one you quoted that was even more clear).
I do think the kinds of things offered by PN are available without spending the money and the history of people selling dieting services is perhaps why my reaction to this is so negative, but I acknowledge that it might be worth it to someone to out-source those services (since when people make the same points about "why spend money to get workout help" I think they are wrong).
Anyway, while I do still think my point to OP initially (you probably want to learn for yourself what good nutrition is and what works for you), I think people familiar from a personal perspective with the services and what specifically they involve can say whether they think they are worth the money and for whom (as I would if someone asked me about using a trainer, since I have, and would say that can be part of learning for yourself how to formulate a workout plan and workout correctly, as perhaps this can be too).2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
I feel like you're saying that the fact that this program is helping me means I am a sheep and I don't feel like figuring out myself.
That was not my intention.Nothing could be further from the truth. I learned a lot in 2012/2013 when I used mfp to lose weight. But I still ended up failing. So I'm trying this program with mfp to help solidify habits. The program has forced me to answer questions I hadn't even considered. I'm still doing the work.
You're in these forums as much as I am, if not more. People struggle and have problems figuring things out all the time.
And this isn't a preset eating plan. I don't know where people are getting that idea.
Again, I did not say it was a preset eating plan, so I don't know why you keep saying it's not. If it's more about habits and not nutrition, I can see how that might be useful, and I do think people find different things helpful. My impression from some coach who posted here and their information I've seen that it was more about how to choose food (without using MFP) -- basically a kind of glorified "fill half your plate with veg, eat protein, use your hand and thumb and so on to judge portions and if you are X size you want Y portion" kind of thing (which I would not call a preset eating plan).
I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything).
That said, I don't think calorie counting is the one right way for everyone, let alone long term, and generally don't count at maintenance myself. I admitted that my reaction that paying for "how to eat" (or whatever you want to call it -- I don't think that means a preset diet plan, again) advice was inconsistent with the fact I think paying for other things (including workout help) is totally normal, and that I've even recommended to some that they go to a dietitian. I am interested (although you don't have to go into, obviously) in what you think you get from PN that you wouldn't get on your own, since I think if someone knows how to structure a sensible diet and that sustaining it is about things like habits that it's not really about "figuring things out" as in academic stuff someone could teach you. But goodness knows I don't have everything figured out -- indeed, it's the "how to structure a diet" stuff I think is easy and commonly known already, and yet there are all kinds of services paying to tell you what to eat (and again, I don't mean a preset meal plan), when usually actually doing it is the issue. My prior post (with the one right after it) was SUPPOSED to be a hey, maybe I am being too hasty here kind of thing, as well as identifying the things I didn't quite get, it was hardly an argument or a claim that I was right -- discussion, not argument. I'm genuinely trying to understand what one would learn from it that makes it worthwhile. (I'm also not meaning to derail -- this actually is the question that OP would presumably want to know about also, no?)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »...I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything)...
I saw the exact same kind of stuff from PN and that was what turned me off to them. I've read a lot of their stuff in the past that was pretty solid, but I think they jumped the shark at some point and started getting off base and too esoteric. I now can't shake a feeling that they're at least somewhat shady/woo-ey because of their CICO denial stuff.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »...I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything)...
I saw the exact same kind of stuff from PN and that was what turned me off to them. I've read a lot of their stuff in the past that was pretty solid, but I think they jumped the shark at some point and started getting off base and too esoteric. I now can't shake a feeling that they're at least somewhat shady/woo-ey because of their CICO denial stuff.
I know back in the early days (like 2014) timeframe, I enjoyed their stuff. Now, I think they are trying to be too trendy and staying away from the science a bit.
But ultimately, it's really all about finding the right coach. Hell, if I had the money, I would hire SideSteel in a heart beat. It's not that I don't have the knowledge to achieve my goals, but having that additional accountability and someone more knowledgeable to run ideas off of, would be highly beneficial.
And in all fairness, the people I have coach have done it for a variety of reason; 1. busy jobs, 2. busy families, 3. didn't want to spend the time to learn everything, 4. etc...
And let's also consider the fact that many of us spend years sorting through all the junk and refining our own plans, that some people just don't want to go through those struggles. Hell, as knowledgeable as I am, I still deal with struggles, which is why I still don't have a 6 pack like I have been striving for.3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
There's this wonderful invention called "Google", use it.lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
There's this wonderful invention called "Google", use it.
You're the one who made the claim about "professional guidance." I think it's up to you to offer evidence that the guidance is, in fact, professional.
I did, I recommended that you Google.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »...I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything)...
I saw the exact same kind of stuff from PN and that was what turned me off to them. I've read a lot of their stuff in the past that was pretty solid, but I think they jumped the shark at some point and started getting off base and too esoteric. I now can't shake a feeling that they're at least somewhat shady/woo-ey because of their CICO denial stuff.
Actually, this is a very fair criticism. And it is one of the reasons I mentioned both times that I do calorie count with MFP. I am working on habits and eventually I do want to learn how to eat without logging every day. But I personally think calorie counting helps me a lot, so I continue to do it.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
I hesitated to come back in here because I certainly don't want anyone to think I am an active supporter of PN
. I am enjoying it, so I thought I would address some things.
The coaches are certified through PN. I don't know what that entails, and I know there are levels of certification. I like my coach, but in all honesty, the main reason I am doing it is because I like PN. All the lessons etc are online and standardized through PN, and the coaches are there to help, etc. I was just thinking about this yesterday, and I realized that others may have a different experience with different coaches. My coach will help with nutrition issues, but doesn't offer meal plans or even look at my logs (although I am sure he would if I asked). Maybe some coaches approach it different.
1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
I feel like you're saying that the fact that this program is helping me means I am a sheep and I don't feel like figuring out myself.
That was not my intention.Nothing could be further from the truth. I learned a lot in 2012/2013 when I used mfp to lose weight. But I still ended up failing. So I'm trying this program with mfp to help solidify habits. The program has forced me to answer questions I hadn't even considered. I'm still doing the work.
You're in these forums as much as I am, if not more. People struggle and have problems figuring things out all the time.
And this isn't a preset eating plan. I don't know where people are getting that idea.
Again, I did not say it was a preset eating plan, so I don't know why you keep saying it's not. If it's more about habits and not nutrition, I can see how that might be useful, and I do think people find different things helpful. My impression from some coach who posted here and their information I've seen that it was more about how to choose food (without using MFP) -- basically a kind of glorified "fill half your plate with veg, eat protein, use your hand and thumb and so on to judge portions and if you are X size you want Y portion" kind of thing (which I would not call a preset eating plan).
I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything).
That said, I don't think calorie counting is the one right way for everyone, let alone long term, and generally don't count at maintenance myself. I admitted that my reaction that paying for "how to eat" (or whatever you want to call it -- I don't think that means a preset diet plan, again) advice was inconsistent with the fact I think paying for other things (including workout help) is totally normal, and that I've even recommended to some that they go to a dietitian. I am interested (although you don't have to go into, obviously) in what you think you get from PN that you wouldn't get on your own, since I think if someone knows how to structure a sensible diet and that sustaining it is about things like habits that it's not really about "figuring things out" as in academic stuff someone could teach you. But goodness knows I don't have everything figured out -- indeed, it's the "how to structure a diet" stuff I think is easy and commonly known already, and yet there are all kinds of services paying to tell you what to eat (and again, I don't mean a preset meal plan), when usually actually doing it is the issue. My prior post (with the one right after it) was SUPPOSED to be a hey, maybe I am being too hasty here kind of thing, as well as identifying the things I didn't quite get, it was hardly an argument or a claim that I was right -- discussion, not argument. I'm genuinely trying to understand what one would learn from it that makes it worthwhile. (I'm also not meaning to derail -- this actually is the question that OP would presumably want to know about also, no?)
That's perfectly fine. But in both my earlier posts, I did tell you what I was learning. It is apparent what I am learning would not be useful to you because it was something you picked up early on on your own. But I am finding the habits part useful. Look in all the forums right now and you will see so many people starting over (and over, and over). I started over in August. I don't want to do this again, so I am trying this to see if I can put things in place so that I don't re-gain it all again. I am willing to pay for it. I certainly don't think anyone should have to pay for it. And I was never coerced into joining.
0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you can afford it, I don't think it would hurt to get some professional guidance for a few months to help get you started or you can just get conflicting advice from random strangers on the internet.
Are Precision Nutrition coaches professional in any sense other than that they get paid? (I.e., do they they training, education, certificates, a professional licensing board that oversees their practices?)
I hesitated to come back in here because I certainly don't want anyone to think I am an active supporter of PN. I am enjoying it, so I thought I would address some things.
The coaches are certified through PN. I don't know what that entails, and I know there are levels of certification. I like my coach, but in all honesty, the main reason I am doing it is because I like PN. All the lessons etc are online and standardized through PN, and the coaches are there to help, etc. I was just thinking about this yesterday, and I realized that others may have a different experience with different coaches. My coach will help with nutrition issues, but doesn't offer meal plans or even look at my logs (although I am sure he would if I asked). Maybe some coaches approach it different.
I looked at their site, and it looks as though a big part of their business plan is selling the courses to coaches that enable them to obtain the certification. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly creates certain incentives for them that may not be in the best interest of the end users (clients).
Also, they have a section emphasizing to coaches what kind of nutritional advice someone who isn't an R.D. can provide without running into legal problems: basically, nothing aimed at treating actual medical problems -- although then they offer advice on weaselly ways to phrase advice aimed at treating actual medical problems that would arguably leave them in a safe place legally. So it seemed to me like they might just be covering their own a***s, since they're certifying non R.D.s to offer nutritional advice.
My overall impression just from the website was that it wasn't the woo-iest or scammiest thing I've ever seen, but that there were a few red flags.4 -
.0
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
I feel like you're saying that the fact that this program is helping me means I am a sheep and I don't feel like figuring out myself.
That was not my intention.Nothing could be further from the truth. I learned a lot in 2012/2013 when I used mfp to lose weight. But I still ended up failing. So I'm trying this program with mfp to help solidify habits. The program has forced me to answer questions I hadn't even considered. I'm still doing the work.
You're in these forums as much as I am, if not more. People struggle and have problems figuring things out all the time.
And this isn't a preset eating plan. I don't know where people are getting that idea.
Again, I did not say it was a preset eating plan, so I don't know why you keep saying it's not. If it's more about habits and not nutrition, I can see how that might be useful, and I do think people find different things helpful. My impression from some coach who posted here and their information I've seen that it was more about how to choose food (without using MFP) -- basically a kind of glorified "fill half your plate with veg, eat protein, use your hand and thumb and so on to judge portions and if you are X size you want Y portion" kind of thing (which I would not call a preset eating plan).
I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything).
That said, I don't think calorie counting is the one right way for everyone, let alone long term, and generally don't count at maintenance myself. I admitted that my reaction that paying for "how to eat" (or whatever you want to call it -- I don't think that means a preset diet plan, again) advice was inconsistent with the fact I think paying for other things (including workout help) is totally normal, and that I've even recommended to some that they go to a dietitian. I am interested (although you don't have to go into, obviously) in what you think you get from PN that you wouldn't get on your own, since I think if someone knows how to structure a sensible diet and that sustaining it is about things like habits that it's not really about "figuring things out" as in academic stuff someone could teach you. But goodness knows I don't have everything figured out -- indeed, it's the "how to structure a diet" stuff I think is easy and commonly known already, and yet there are all kinds of services paying to tell you what to eat (and again, I don't mean a preset meal plan), when usually actually doing it is the issue. My prior post (with the one right after it) was SUPPOSED to be a hey, maybe I am being too hasty here kind of thing, as well as identifying the things I didn't quite get, it was hardly an argument or a claim that I was right -- discussion, not argument. I'm genuinely trying to understand what one would learn from it that makes it worthwhile. (I'm also not meaning to derail -- this actually is the question that OP would presumably want to know about also, no?)
That's perfectly fine. But in both my earlier posts, I did tell you what I was learning. It is apparent what I am learning would not be useful to you because it was something you picked up early on on your own. But I am finding the habits part useful. Look in all the forums right now and you will see so many people starting over (and over, and over). I started over in August. I don't want to do this again, so I am trying this to see if I can put things in place so that I don't re-gain it all again. I am willing to pay for it. I certainly don't think anyone should have to pay for it. And I was never coerced into joining.
Okay. I find "habits" kind of vague, so that's why I asked again, but I'm not trying to be a pain or insulting or to force you to defend something. I tend to think people regain (or start over) for reasons other than not understanding nutrition. When I regained some years ago (I did keep it off for around 5 years), it was because I stopped doing stuff I knew I should do (and I don't mean eating vegetables -- man o man I wish identifying sources of protein and vegetables and adding them to my meals would keep me from overeating, but maybe I'm being too dismissive in thinking that if this worked no one would have problems). Anyway, why did I stop with perfectly good habits I'd been doing for years? I have theories, but don't know for sure. If I could pay someone to make me not do that in the future, great, of course I would, but I don't think that would work, because I don't think it's about something I don't know in an academic sense.
But I'm NOT saying that what you are getting isn't valuable for you or is not addressing whatever your own issues were, and perhaps having someone to talk through things with is really useful for you and worth the money (I'm sure it is). It's probably why I found it useful to waste way too much time here for ages (although I'm not convinced it still is). I just think that when someone comes to MFP having regained or stopped losing weight or whatever, there are lots of reasons, it's not necessarily evidence that what they need to do is pay for something. Sometimes it is just spending more time NOT following someone else's plan or diet (I know you are saying that's not what PN is, but it often is what a newbie is looking for), but learning how nutrition (and calories!) actually works and how they can balance that with how they like to eat, figuring out what foods make them satisfied and satiated, so on.
Anyway, I probably won't get it, but no reason I should; I'm not saying anything bad about those who enjoy coaching (or sell their own coaching services in many cases). I enjoyed doing a tri training group with information that I could have found on my own, because it was social and reassuring to talk to people who were more expert, so maybe that's a good analogy.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's better to figure out for yourself how to have a good sustainable diet as opposed to having someone else do it for you.
But you actually do it yourself in PN. The thing I have found most useful are the daily lessons (every day but Saturday). In the beginning the lessons centered around determining why and when you overeat. We didn't even get to nutrition until several weeks later. There is a worksheet you can use after a really bad eating day (overeating) that helps you pinpoint what circumstances may have lead it. They do encourage keeping a food log short term at one point to help identify which foods/meals may be working for you, and which do not. They encourage you to add good sources of protein, vegetables, and complex carbs to your meals.
I am not encouraging anyone to spend money on this. I'm just trying to correct what I think are misconceptions. They don't tell you what to eat. They give guidelines.
First, I totally admit that I am kind of biased on this, and I'm not entirely sure where it's coming from.
However, I am not assuming hat they give you a specific meal plan (I did think they probably gave you macros or the like or some structure, and if they are encouraging you to add protein, veg, and complex carbs they are -- and wouldn't someone already know to do that?).
The kinds of things you mention are the things I have worked on on my own, and find important, but in my head -- and again this may not make actual sense -- it seems valuable to figure those things out on one's own (or I should say "on my own") vs. having someone else do it (based on their own preconceptions).
For example, I think structure is important for eating, and figured out that for me eating three meals, not snacking, seems to work. I sort of intuitively realized that eating meals structured around protein, vegetables, and some starch (but that can vary a lot based on calorie goal) plus some healthy fat as accent works well. Someone else telling me how to structure a meal is something I react against, it seems like I wouldn't learn that way but just do it without understanding why it works, the underlying point.
Same with things like seeing how foods work or not -- good advice, but isn't that what one does with MFP, normally? Look at how things go and make changes?
When I first started MFP, I journaled about eating and stopped and I should probably go back to it (it was helpful for a while and I've been struggling with emotional eating again).
For some reason those things seem sensible and good, but as soon as they become someone else telling me what to do it feels like it would be "one size fits all" and substituting someone else's judgment for my own.
Like I said, this may not make sense, as I have no issue with the idea of following a preset strength training program as a starting point or being taught how to structure my own from someone else vs. figuring it all out from the beginning. I really am not sure why the idea of selling "how to plan your diet" seems so wrong to me, except that that basics do strike me as really simple and the rest needs to be personal (IMO) to be workable.
Some do better following plans, probably, whereas other people's plans often make me feel rebellious (even if my own plan is really conventional and similar to standard nutrition advice, heh).
I feel like you're saying that the fact that this program is helping me means I am a sheep and I don't feel like figuring out myself.
That was not my intention.Nothing could be further from the truth. I learned a lot in 2012/2013 when I used mfp to lose weight. But I still ended up failing. So I'm trying this program with mfp to help solidify habits. The program has forced me to answer questions I hadn't even considered. I'm still doing the work.
You're in these forums as much as I am, if not more. People struggle and have problems figuring things out all the time.
And this isn't a preset eating plan. I don't know where people are getting that idea.
Again, I did not say it was a preset eating plan, so I don't know why you keep saying it's not. If it's more about habits and not nutrition, I can see how that might be useful, and I do think people find different things helpful. My impression from some coach who posted here and their information I've seen that it was more about how to choose food (without using MFP) -- basically a kind of glorified "fill half your plate with veg, eat protein, use your hand and thumb and so on to judge portions and if you are X size you want Y portion" kind of thing (which I would not call a preset eating plan).
I get angry about people charging for dieting advice, basically, and usually they have their own "one right way" to do it -- which does not mean a preset meal plan. I've seen stuff from PN that suggested that counting calories doesn't work and exaggerates how important the inaccuracies are, for example, that led me to put them in that category and I am inherently skeptical about dieting advice to pay for (other than a dietitian for someone who needed that kind of help). I really DON'T think this makes me so unusual or way out, as others suggested; I think seeing what we do at MFP it's a good starting place, to be skeptical of those who try to sell dieting services as necessary or providing some huge advantage (I don't mean you, I don't think you are selling anything).
That said, I don't think calorie counting is the one right way for everyone, let alone long term, and generally don't count at maintenance myself. I admitted that my reaction that paying for "how to eat" (or whatever you want to call it -- I don't think that means a preset diet plan, again) advice was inconsistent with the fact I think paying for other things (including workout help) is totally normal, and that I've even recommended to some that they go to a dietitian. I am interested (although you don't have to go into, obviously) in what you think you get from PN that you wouldn't get on your own, since I think if someone knows how to structure a sensible diet and that sustaining it is about things like habits that it's not really about "figuring things out" as in academic stuff someone could teach you. But goodness knows I don't have everything figured out -- indeed, it's the "how to structure a diet" stuff I think is easy and commonly known already, and yet there are all kinds of services paying to tell you what to eat (and again, I don't mean a preset meal plan), when usually actually doing it is the issue. My prior post (with the one right after it) was SUPPOSED to be a hey, maybe I am being too hasty here kind of thing, as well as identifying the things I didn't quite get, it was hardly an argument or a claim that I was right -- discussion, not argument. I'm genuinely trying to understand what one would learn from it that makes it worthwhile. (I'm also not meaning to derail -- this actually is the question that OP would presumably want to know about also, no?)
That's perfectly fine. But in both my earlier posts, I did tell you what I was learning. It is apparent what I am learning would not be useful to you because it was something you picked up early on on your own. But I am finding the habits part useful. Look in all the forums right now and you will see so many people starting over (and over, and over). I started over in August. I don't want to do this again, so I am trying this to see if I can put things in place so that I don't re-gain it all again. I am willing to pay for it. I certainly don't think anyone should have to pay for it. And I was never coerced into joining.
Honestly, I think one of the best reasons to have a coach is help with goal setting, habit change, and accountability. It would be a waste for some, but some people are really helped by it. It's something you can figure out on your own, but if you've struggled with it your whole life it can be worth it to pay for help. I could batch prep microwavable lunches for the week, but I always end up forgetting or being lazy. So I buy Lean Cuisines. They aren't necessary and some would say a waste of money, but they help me in an area where I tend to epic fail. Same idea IMHO.3 -
Thank you all for the comments!!!
0 -
I am not a PN coach. I am paying for the support, coaching and accountability. The program works with me about creating durable life long habits and shifting my mindset about what my priorities are and how to act on them consistently. I usr my own body's internal cue for hunger fullness energy muscle soreness etc. My fitness pal is great for getting some raw data but I would not want to build a lifestyle around it. I want my own hard won healthy habits- not a calorie counter on a regular basis.
I find that PN is worth the money to me.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393K Introduce Yourself
- 43.7K Getting Started
- 260.1K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.8K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 416 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.9K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.6K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.5K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions