Is Keto any good?
Replies
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Kind of a long post ahead here, but I want to make sure to give you some of the great feedback that others gave to me when I first started.
Keto for me has been a life saver. I look at Keto as more of a medical/healing/metabolic diet hack for those you have extremely damaged metabolisms. It's a significant lifestyle change that isn't necessary for those who have healthy metabolisms, no markers of disease and just need to drop 20-30 pounds. So make sure you do your research to determine if you need to go full keto or if you can reach your goals with just low carb (or some other standard CICO diet). Also, really consider making Keto a way of life instead of a diet. This is a powerful tool that will hack your metabolism and fundamentally change the way you burn fat, store fat, burn energy, etc. So I don't suggest playing around with it casually. TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR FIRST, get them on board. If you have already done the research and you are confident that Keto is for you, then it will possibly change your life, your health and your control over food. Again, Keto has been a miracle for me. There is an initial Swoosh of weight loss that can be really motivating, but after that initial weight loss, keto becomes very similar to other diets in that you must stick closely to your macros, get some exercise and stay committed. Keto's advantage is that it is easier to do all of these things because of the quality of food that you eat and how it works to satisfy you and keep you full.
Also, keto DOES NOT require you to avoid all fruit and veggies. Some veggies/fruit are relatively high in carbs, so those should be avoided, but raspberries, strawberries, blueberries are part of the keto diet. Lower carb higher fiber veggies are also ok. Higher carb veggies will fall into the "if it fits your macros" category. You will have to experiment to see how many carbs/what type of carbs you can tolerate and still remain in Ketosis. So here are my tips for going keto:
1) Make sure to set your macros correctly. Someone above gave the specifics. (less than 20 g carbs, protein grams based on lean body weight and fat to round it out. This site will help tremendously with figuring out your macros
https://www.ruled.me/keto-calculator/
2) If you don't feel well under Keto and you start to experience problems, then switch to a Low Carb instead of strict Keto or possibly go with a different diet. Keto is not for everyone. Listen to your body
3) During the first week or so while you are becoming Keto adapted, you will not feel your best. Keep your magnesium and potassium up. There are hundreds of articles there on KETO FLU and how to work through it. After the first couple of weeks, you should begin to feel much better. If you do not, please refer to #2
4) Join support groups and forums. There are so many WONDERFUL forums that can help you through the Ketogenic lifestyle. Also watch some of the youtube videos. Start with Butter Bob-butter makes your pants fall off, Keto Christine and Two Keto Dudes (they actually healed type 2 diabetes through Keto)
5) Friend me =0) I am five months into Keto and down 61 pounds. I have reversed my pre-diabetes, my BP is perfect, cholesterol is perfect and for the first time in 15 years, I am on my way to weighing less than 200 pounds. But I use Keto as a lifestyle not a diet. And I plan to continue eating this way even after I reach goal weight. My fat loss has been amazing with very little lean muscle loss. I have a dexascan scheduled for Feb in order to get the exact percentages but preliminary tests looked good.
6) I strongly suggest that you count Total Carbs, not NET carbs. Once you get acclimated and understand how your body responds, then you can make decisions
There is a TON of scientific research to support this WOE for certain individuals. I wish you luck. Enjoy the Keto journey.
This is all great advice. I would only add that increasing sodium will reduce the need to increase magnesium and potassium.
Most people who do a ketogenic who stick with it seem to do so for a couple of reasons:
1. It improved their health (IR, PCOS, NAFLD, CVD, dementia, autoimmune inflammation, migraines) to such a degree that eating carbs are not worth the trade off.
2. It allowed people greater control of the appetite and satiety. I used to fill up on carbs too. The problem was that it did not leave me full for long and I was shaky and hungry just 2-3 hours later. The keto diet reduced my appetite, greatly reduced my carb cravings, and helped me replace refined or sugary carbs with more healthful and nutritious foods. I too am gluten free and know that gluten free substitute foods are lacking nutrition.
For people who see themselves above, keto is sustainable for years or even life. If you experience no great benefits, most will not bother restricting carbs like breads, cereals, rice, noodles or grapes. It is a bit inconvenient.1 -
abbefaria4 wrote: »People talk about the calorie deficit with respect to the keto diet, but what is the cause of the deficit.
Depends. Some people just log calories, so same as everyone else. Others naturally reduce calories because they are eating in a way they find more filling. Just as likely it's because people are cutting out foods they were in the habit of overeating or changing their diet a lot and it takes a while to find replacement foods so you just end up undereating. When I first dieted I did something similar, cut down on some things without increasing portions of others to compensate so calories were really low. (Similarly when I went 100% plant-based one Lent I lost a bunch of weight not feeling hungry and not meaning to (I wasn't dieting), because I'd cut out a bunch of foods I'd normally eat more mindlessly.)I've read an alternate theory that says it's very hard to find foods with the correct ration of fats to carbs so people just end up eating less.
It's really not. You don't need foods with a specific ratio of fats to carbs, and it's not that hard to find high fat foods.
If carbs/starches fill you up or you need volume, it might be harder to be satisfied.1 -
Keto can be good if:
1. You have diabetes or IR
2. You are satiated by fat
3. You are not a volume eater
4. You do not enjoy carb foods such as fruits, oats, legumes
Really, the best diet is the one that you can sustain and comply with.
But of all maro based diets, high protein > all. Protein helps maintain muscle and metabolic functions, burns more calories through digestion and has the higher satiety factor.
Keto is inferior if:
1. You like volume foods
2. You are satiated by carbs
3. You partake in anearobic exercise or ultra endurance events.
ETA: if you do keto, you will need close to 5000mg of sodium.
Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior. For example, I believe the 100 mile record holder in the U.S. uses a ketogenic diet. I think his name is Bitter? Keto tends to cut down on GI problems too which is often a factor for those with a DNF in long events.
For very short explosive exercise, like a 100 m race, fats may not be as good of a fuel as glucose. I agree with you there.6 -
Keto can be good if:
1. You have diabetes or IR
2. You are satiated by fat
3. You are not a volume eater
4. You do not enjoy carb foods such as fruits, oats, legumes
Really, the best diet is the one that you can sustain and comply with.
But of all maro based diets, high protein > all. Protein helps maintain muscle and metabolic functions, burns more calories through digestion and has the higher satiety factor.
Keto is inferior if:
1. You like volume foods
2. You are satiated by carbs
3. You partake in anearobic exercise or ultra endurance events.
ETA: if you do keto, you will need close to 5000mg of sodium.
Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior. For example, I believe the 100 mile record holder in the U.S. uses a ketogenic diet. I think his name is Bitter? Keto tends to cut down on GI problems too which is often a factor for those with a DNF in long events.
For very short explosive exercise, like a 100 m race, fats may not be as good of a fuel as glucose. I agree with you there.
And he eats more carbs and uses gels during events.
http://running.competitor.com/2013/12/news/zach-bitter-ran-100-miles-in-less-than-12-hours_91741
This has been pointed out to you before.
No one who is an athlete ever does pure keto.11 -
I am totally overwhelmed with the number of responses I have had, it's been invaluable and definately given me "food" for thought! I wish there was an option to respond to each comment personally, or maybe I've missed it (I'm still learning how to use MFP).
I've started to look at some of the links and books, which have been recommended on this thread, but for now, a reduction in calories seems to be the agreed starting point! Thanks all, I really appreciate it.6 -
abbefaria4 wrote: »People talk about the calorie deficit with respect to the keto diet, but what is the cause of the deficit. Is it that your appetite is suppressed so one naturally eats less calories? I've read an alternate theory that says it's very hard to find foods with the correct ration of fats to carbs so people just end up eating less. If so, the hunger pangs would likely make this diet hard to maintain. Does anyone have any experience with this diet or know of any research to shed light on this? Thanks.
Some people find that eating a lot of dietary fat is satiating and thus they do not have hunger or hunger pangs...I am not one of those people.
Beyond that, basically cutting out an entire macro-nutrient is likely to lead to a calorie deficit for most people.3 -
Keto can be good if:
1. You have diabetes or IR
2. You are satiated by fat
3. You are not a volume eater
4. You do not enjoy carb foods such as fruits, oats, legumes
Really, the best diet is the one that you can sustain and comply with.
But of all maro based diets, high protein > all. Protein helps maintain muscle and metabolic functions, burns more calories through digestion and has the higher satiety factor.
Keto is inferior if:
1. You like volume foods
2. You are satiated by carbs
3. You partake in anearobic exercise or ultra endurance events.
ETA: if you do keto, you will need close to 5000mg of sodium.
Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior. For example, I believe the 100 mile record holder in the U.S. uses a ketogenic diet. I think his name is Bitter? Keto tends to cut down on GI problems too which is often a factor for those with a DNF in long events.
For very short explosive exercise, like a 100 m race, fats may not be as good of a fuel as glucose. I agree with you there.
Bold is false and has been explained to you multiple times.
You need more oxygen when you are using a higher proportion of fat for fuel - a.k.a. working harder, the exact opposite of what you want to happen.
You also lose some ability to utilise carbs, even with event specific carb loading and fuelling.
Elite athletes, and even recreational athletes, follow the most successful protocols - which is why the vast majority of endurance athletes are carb monsters.3 -
Lord this thread went off the rails.
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With the insulin resistance that being overweight is causing, just cutting calories is not going to fix your health. If you eat limited calories, but very high carb and high glycemic index, it will continue to make your insulin resistance worse and likely lead you to become fully diabetic.Hi all
I'm gluten intolerant and now, due to increased weight, have become insulin resistant.
The absolute best thing you can do to control your blood sugar levels is to control your carb intake.
For "filling up" use veggies with low net carbs (total carbs - fiber) and eat whatever protein and fat that you want. I know the calorie counters are gonna hate this, but Keto/atkins/low carb are NOT About calories, they are about CARBS. I have done atkins in the past, and lost a lot of weight. It didn't matter how many total calories, as long as I kept net carbs around 20 per day, I would lose on average a little under 1 pound per week.
Being gluten intolerant, you've already had to cut out a lot of the most common carbs (bread, pasta, pastries) and probably a lot of packaged foods as well. Cut out other grains like rice and corn and starchy vegetables like potatoes. Cut out anything with added sugar and limit fruits to lower carb fruits like tomatoes, avocado, small servings of berries.
My problem was that I kept looking at Atkins as a "diet" and after reaching my goal, I stopped, gained all the weight back plus 2x more over the following years. I was diagnosed diabetic about a year ago. I am starting off the new year with Keto. I have to adjust my mindset to this being a permanent lifestyle change, because this is the ONLY thing that I can do to keep blood sugar levels under control without being dependent on taking a lot of very expensive medications that have terrible side effects.
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catherineg3 wrote: »
With the insulin resistance that being overweight is causing, just cutting calories is not going to fix your health. If you eat limited calories, but very high carb and high glycemic index, it will continue to make your insulin resistance worse and likely lead you to become fully diabetic.Hi all
I'm gluten intolerant and now, due to increased weight, have become insulin resistant.
The absolute best thing you can do to control your blood sugar levels is to control your carb intake.
For "filling up" use veggies with low net carbs (total carbs - fiber) and eat whatever protein and fat that you want. I know the calorie counters are gonna hate this, but Keto/atkins/low carb are NOT About calories, they are about CARBS. I have done atkins in the past, and lost a lot of weight. It didn't matter how many total calories, as long as I kept net carbs around 20 per day, I would lose on average a little under 1 pound per week.
Being gluten intolerant, you've already had to cut out a lot of the most common carbs (bread, pasta, pastries) and probably a lot of packaged foods as well. Cut out other grains like rice and corn and starchy vegetables like potatoes. Cut out anything with added sugar and limit fruits to lower carb fruits like tomatoes, avocado, small servings of berries.
My problem was that I kept looking at Atkins as a "diet" and after reaching my goal, I stopped, gained all the weight back plus 2x more over the following years. I was diagnosed diabetic about a year ago. I am starting off the new year with Keto. I have to adjust my mindset to this being a permanent lifestyle change, because this is the ONLY thing that I can do to keep blood sugar levels under control without being dependent on taking a lot of very expensive medications that have terrible side effects.
You probably are more satiated by carbs. But science has repeatedly found that calories are the only thing that matters for weight loss. Adjustments in macros can support specific goals, address medical conditions and sustainability.
Day in and out people complain about why they arent losing weight following a diet protocol and each time its found they arent tracking and eating too many calories. This occurs whether they are keto, vegan, or anywhere in between.4 -
Keto can be good if:
1. You have diabetes or IR
2. You are satiated by fat
3. You are not a volume eater
4. You do not enjoy carb foods such as fruits, oats, legumes
Really, the best diet is the one that you can sustain and comply with.
But of all maro based diets, high protein > all. Protein helps maintain muscle and metabolic functions, burns more calories through digestion and has the higher satiety factor.
Keto is inferior if:
1. You like volume foods
2. You are satiated by carbs
3. You partake in anearobic exercise or ultra endurance events.
ETA: if you do keto, you will need close to 5000mg of sodium.
Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior. For example, I believe the 100 mile record holder in the U.S. uses a ketogenic diet. I think his name is Bitter? Keto tends to cut down on GI problems too which is often a factor for those with a DNF in long events.
For very short explosive exercise, like a 100 m race, fats may not be as good of a fuel as glucose. I agree with you there.
Bold is false and has been explained to you multiple times.
You need more oxygen when you are using a higher proportion of fat for fuel - a.k.a. working harder, the exact opposite of what you want to happen.
You also lose some ability to utilise carbs, even with event specific carb loading and fuelling.
Elite athletes, and even recreational athletes, follow the most successful protocols - which is why the vast majority of endurance athletes are carb monsters.
It's not been proven to me, although people have discussed it. I have not yet read anything that shows that people who eat a ketogenic diet perform at an inferior level at an ultra endurance event. It seems a ketogenic, fat adapted athlete would be better suited to taking advantage of fat stores to use as energy than someone who typically relies on glucose for their main daily fuel.
Even if more inhaled oxygen is used, a fat adapted athlete will avoid hitting the wall because their brain does not become starved for glucose if the body is using ingested glucose in muscles during an event. They have plenty of fat to use as fuel otherwise. They can keep going longer - even elite athletes need to worry about that. Also fat oxidation levels among those athletes is high. They can often continue burning fats at higher VO2 max intensities than they could before becoming fat adapted.
A fat adapted athlete may have some transient insulin resistance in the first day of reintroducing a high carb diet, but if athletes choose to use some glucose on race day, they can easily reintroduce a higher level of carbs a day earlier to compensate. I sort of doubt they are eating high carb meals right before the race so they don't have to deal with GI issues. And there really is no rule saying a fat adapted athlete cannot use glucose gels or whatever to their advantage on race day. A fat adapted athlete is metabolically flexible - they are not as locked into using one type of fuel as other athletes may be.
Please note, I did not say a ketogenic diet is superior. I wrote, "Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior." In all of my reading, the only disadvantage to keto due to a need for more oxygen was a 10k racewalk where 3-week ketogenic dieters slowed 23 seconds. It wasn't an ultra endurance event and it is arguable by the leading LCHF researchers that 3 weeks is not enough to be completely fat adapted.
I don't see a long term ketogenic diet as being proven inferior here.
7 -
Keto can be good if:
1. You have diabetes or IR
2. You are satiated by fat
3. You are not a volume eater
4. You do not enjoy carb foods such as fruits, oats, legumes
Really, the best diet is the one that you can sustain and comply with.
But of all maro based diets, high protein > all. Protein helps maintain muscle and metabolic functions, burns more calories through digestion and has the higher satiety factor.
Keto is inferior if:
1. You like volume foods
2. You are satiated by carbs
3. You partake in anearobic exercise or ultra endurance events.
ETA: if you do keto, you will need close to 5000mg of sodium.
Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior. For example, I believe the 100 mile record holder in the U.S. uses a ketogenic diet. I think his name is Bitter? Keto tends to cut down on GI problems too which is often a factor for those with a DNF in long events.
For very short explosive exercise, like a 100 m race, fats may not be as good of a fuel as glucose. I agree with you there.
Bold is false and has been explained to you multiple times.
You need more oxygen when you are using a higher proportion of fat for fuel - a.k.a. working harder, the exact opposite of what you want to happen.
You also lose some ability to utilise carbs, even with event specific carb loading and fuelling.
Elite athletes, and even recreational athletes, follow the most successful protocols - which is why the vast majority of endurance athletes are carb monsters.
It's not been proven to me, although people have discussed it. I have not yet read anything that shows that people who eat a ketogenic diet perform at an inferior level at an ultra endurance event. It seems a ketogenic, fat adapted athlete would be better suited to taking advantage of fat stores to use as energy than someone who typically relies on glucose for their main daily fuel.
Even if more inhaled oxygen is used, a fat adapted athlete will avoid hitting the wall because their brain does not become starved for glucose if the body is using ingested glucose in muscles during an event. They have plenty of fat to use as fuel otherwise. They can keep going longer - even elite athletes need to worry about that. Also fat oxidation levels among those athletes is high. They can often continue burning fats at higher VO2 max intensities than they could before becoming fat adapted.
A fat adapted athlete may have some transient insulin resistance in the first day of reintroducing a high carb diet, but if athletes choose to use some glucose on race day, they can easily reintroduce a higher level of carbs a day earlier to compensate. I sort of doubt they are eating high carb meals right before the race so they don't have to deal with GI issues. And there really is no rule saying a fat adapted athlete cannot use glucose gels or whatever to their advantage on race day. A fat adapted athlete is metabolically flexible - they are not as locked into using one type of fuel as other athletes may be.
Please note, I did not say a ketogenic diet is superior. I wrote, "Keto is well suited to ultra endurance events - it is certainly not inferior." In all of my reading, the only disadvantage to keto due to a need for more oxygen was a 10k racewalk where 3-week ketogenic dieters slowed 23 seconds. It wasn't an ultra endurance event and it is arguable by the leading LCHF researchers that 3 weeks is not enough to be completely fat adapted.
I don't see a long term ketogenic diet as being proven inferior here.
All your readings from from two people who only have done research on LCHF. Not saying that the works of Vokey and Phinney aren't providing good data, but if keto was even well suited for any high endurance training, there would be a lot more athletes using it. And the ones on keto wouldn't have to still use Gels and carb loading prior to races. The fact that pro athletes aren't using it, demonstrates it's inferior.
Btw, the GI issues aren't from carbs, it's from the ingredients that many gels use (e.g., maltadextrine), which is no different that those who have adverse reactions from nutritional sweeteners.5 -
www.dietdoctor.com
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ketofire51 wrote: »www.dietdoctor.com
And Jason Fung both appear on the site.....
https://nutritionasiknowit.com/blog/2016/1/13/nutrition-sources-you-should-avoid1
This discussion has been closed.
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