Advice Please!
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Generally a guy wants to be at least 15% before bulking, 20% is too high.
The OP might find it useful to check out RP (Renaissance Periodization), but the meal timings on that program might be an issue for him.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
I dont see where OP has a lot of body fat maybe the midsection area sure. but the rest doesnt look like a lot. not arguing with you I just dont see where its too much to gain weight. he is 6ft and 192 lbs. but ultimately its his choice and maybe a recomp would be the best thing at the moment.
His bodyfat is easily in the 20-22% range, regardless of his weight. Bulking at high bodyfat levels isn't a good idea because you're more likely to put on fat than muscle. Read the part about p-ratio here.
I know bulking puts on bodyfat,but wouldnt 20-22% be in the normal ranges or no? I also thought the more fat you had would help to gain muscle a bit easier as the fat is used for energy since its stored? or is that wrong?
Are you thinking of bodyfat in women maybe? But @usmcmp explained it well... Bulking at higher bodyfat typically leads to more fat gain2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
I dont see where OP has a lot of body fat maybe the midsection area sure. but the rest doesnt look like a lot. not arguing with you I just dont see where its too much to gain weight. he is 6ft and 192 lbs. but ultimately its his choice and maybe a recomp would be the best thing at the moment.
His bodyfat is easily in the 20-22% range, regardless of his weight. Bulking at high bodyfat levels isn't a good idea because you're more likely to put on fat than muscle. Read the part about p-ratio here.
I know bulking puts on bodyfat,but wouldnt 20-22% be in the normal ranges or no? I also thought the more fat you had would help to gain muscle a bit easier as the fat is used for energy since its stored? or is that wrong?
Are you thinking of bodyfat in women maybe? But @usmcmp explained it well... Bulking at higher bodyfat typically leads to more fat gain
no im not thinking of women. and someone already said that that amount for men is in the normal range.0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
I dont see where OP has a lot of body fat maybe the midsection area sure. but the rest doesnt look like a lot. not arguing with you I just dont see where its too much to gain weight. he is 6ft and 192 lbs. but ultimately its his choice and maybe a recomp would be the best thing at the moment.
His bodyfat is easily in the 20-22% range, regardless of his weight. Bulking at high bodyfat levels isn't a good idea because you're more likely to put on fat than muscle. Read the part about p-ratio here.
I know bulking puts on bodyfat,but wouldnt 20-22% be in the normal ranges or no? I also thought the more fat you had would help to gain muscle a bit easier as the fat is used for energy since its stored? or is that wrong?
Are you thinking of bodyfat in women maybe? But @usmcmp explained it well... Bulking at higher bodyfat typically leads to more fat gain
no im not thinking of women. and someone already said that that amount for men is in the normal range.
Correct
Just because it's average or normal doesn't put it as a good starting point concerning fitness. This is just a health index for the average person. For what the OP is saying he is looking for recomp would have some initial visual improvements, but then little to no obvious improvement for a few years after that.1 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
I dont see where OP has a lot of body fat maybe the midsection area sure. but the rest doesnt look like a lot. not arguing with you I just dont see where its too much to gain weight. he is 6ft and 192 lbs. but ultimately its his choice and maybe a recomp would be the best thing at the moment.
His bodyfat is easily in the 20-22% range, regardless of his weight. Bulking at high bodyfat levels isn't a good idea because you're more likely to put on fat than muscle. Read the part about p-ratio here.
I know bulking puts on bodyfat,but wouldnt 20-22% be in the normal ranges or no? I also thought the more fat you had would help to gain muscle a bit easier as the fat is used for energy since its stored? or is that wrong?
Are you thinking of bodyfat in women maybe? But @usmcmp explained it well... Bulking at higher bodyfat typically leads to more fat gain
no im not thinking of women. and someone already said that that amount for men is in the normal range.
Correct
Just because it's average or normal doesn't put it as a good starting point concerning fitness. This is just a health index for the average person. For what the OP is saying he is looking for recomp would have some initial visual improvements, but then little to no obvious improvement for a few years after that.
thanks for the info. even after 3 years Im still learning things.2 -
I would not recommend a calorie deficit. You can reduce your body fat % and still gain muscle but timing is important. It’s about keeping your body in an anabolic state. When your body is in an anabolic state it is using fat for energy and it’s building muscle. If you are not in an anabolic state you are catabolic, which is storing fat and burning muscle for energy. Just eat clean-ish the cleaner the better and make sure you have a protein source every 2-3 hours whether or not it comes from a shake or a meal. And make sure you are in a calorie surplus.8
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natester15 wrote: »I would not recommend a calorie deficit. You can reduce your body fat % and still gain muscle but timing is important. It’s about keeping your body in an anabolic state. When your body is in an anabolic state it is using fat for energy and it’s building muscle. If you are not in an anabolic state you are catabolic, which is storing fat and burning muscle for energy. Just eat clean-ish the cleaner the better and make sure you have a protein source every 2-3 hours whether or not it comes from a shake or a meal. And make sure you are in a calorie surplus.
Thanks for the advice. I was planning to go fully clean, and eating/having a shake every 3 hours or so but then from what people have said I thought it was a bad idea. What do you mean by keep my body in an anabolic State?
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natester15 wrote: »I would not recommend a calorie deficit. You can reduce your body fat % and still gain muscle but timing is important. It’s about keeping your body in an anabolic state. When your body is in an anabolic state it is using fat for energy and it’s building muscle. If you are not in an anabolic state you are catabolic, which is storing fat and burning muscle for energy. Just eat clean-ish the cleaner the better and make sure you have a protein source every 2-3 hours whether or not it comes from a shake or a meal. And make sure you are in a calorie surplus.
That is not how the body works. The body utilizes fat and glycogen well before muscle. Hell, converting amino acids to glucose is very metabolically taxing. So its unlikely to burn muscle for energy.4 -
What is a good way to lose fat without losing muscle?0
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What is a good way to lose fat without losing muscle?
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Good lifting program, adequate protein and a smaller deficit.5 -
natester15 wrote: »I would not recommend a calorie deficit. You can reduce your body fat % and still gain muscle but timing is important. It’s about keeping your body in an anabolic state. When your body is in an anabolic state it is using fat for energy and it’s building muscle. If you are not in an anabolic state you are catabolic, which is storing fat and burning muscle for energy. Just eat clean-ish the cleaner the better and make sure you have a protein source every 2-3 hours whether or not it comes from a shake or a meal. And make sure you are in a calorie surplus.
That's not how it works.3 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
I dont see where OP has a lot of body fat maybe the midsection area sure. but the rest doesnt look like a lot. not arguing with you I just dont see where its too much to gain weight. he is 6ft and 192 lbs. but ultimately its his choice and maybe a recomp would be the best thing at the moment.
His bodyfat is easily in the 20-22% range, regardless of his weight. Bulking at high bodyfat levels isn't a good idea because you're more likely to put on fat than muscle. Read the part about p-ratio here.
I know bulking puts on bodyfat,but wouldnt 20-22% be in the normal ranges or no? I also thought the more fat you had would help to gain muscle a bit easier as the fat is used for energy since its stored? or is that wrong?
Are you thinking of bodyfat in women maybe? But @usmcmp explained it well... Bulking at higher bodyfat typically leads to more fat gain
no im not thinking of women. and someone already said that that amount for men is in the normal range.
Normal sure, ready to bulk no. Eta: unless OP was close to or underweight1 -
Would setting MFP to losing 1lb per week be too much?0
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Or should I go for 2lbs?0
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Or should I go for 2lbs?
Small deficit = slow rate of loss. The smaller the deficit the higher the chance of adding some muscle as you slowly lose fat, with a big deficit and you have next to no chance of adding muscle. I had to come right down to 1lb/month loss when I was fine tuning things (losing 2lb of fat and gaining 1lb of lean mass a month) but I was twice your age with loads of training years. As you are young'ish and new to training 1lb/week would probably work (at least initially). If that impacts your training performance or recovery you could go to half a pound a week.
Don't make something simple more complex for no good reason.
It's not special foods, eliminating foods or particular timing of food that matter.
Concentrate on the big ticket items:
Really good training, good recovery, small deficit, good overall diet including adequate protein.
Can't emphasise enough that it all starts with your training, that starts the process - diet supports it.
Don't be one of those (mostly) young men flitting aimlessly around the gym with a protein shaker in their hand and doing a crappy workout!
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Or should I go for 2lbs?
Small deficit = slow rate of loss. The smaller the deficit the higher the chance of adding some muscle as you slowly lose fat, with a big deficit and you have next to no chance of adding muscle. I had to come right down to 1lb/month loss when I was fine tuning things (losing 2lb of fat and gaining 1lb of lean mass a month) but I was twice your age with loads of training years. As you are young'ish and new to training 1lb/week would probably work (at least initially). If that impacts your training performance or recovery you could go to half a pound a week.
Don't make something simple more complex for no good reason.
It's not special foods, eliminating foods or particular timing of food that matter.
Concentrate on the big ticket items:
Really good training, good recovery, small deficit, good overall diet including adequate protein.
Can't emphasise enough that it all starts with your training, that starts the process - diet supports it.
Don't be one of those (mostly) young men flitting aimlessly around the gym with a protein shaker in their hand and doing a crappy workout!
Thanks! I’m meeting the trainer on Weds to design a program. Anything specific I should be asking/telling him? I think I’ll go for 1lb per week initially and see if I need to decrease it
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Also, what should I do in terms of eating back exercise calories?0
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Also, what should I do in terms of eating back exercise calories?
I'd transition to the TDEE method, where you eat the same amount of calories and monitor weight loss over a 2 to 4 week period. There are plenty of TDEE calculators online, like fitnessfrog, where you can get an estimate of calories.0 -
Or should I go for 2lbs?
Small deficit = slow rate of loss. The smaller the deficit the higher the chance of adding some muscle as you slowly lose fat, with a big deficit and you have next to no chance of adding muscle. I had to come right down to 1lb/month loss when I was fine tuning things (losing 2lb of fat and gaining 1lb of lean mass a month) but I was twice your age with loads of training years. As you are young'ish and new to training 1lb/week would probably work (at least initially). If that impacts your training performance or recovery you could go to half a pound a week.
Don't make something simple more complex for no good reason.
It's not special foods, eliminating foods or particular timing of food that matter.
Concentrate on the big ticket items:
Really good training, good recovery, small deficit, good overall diet including adequate protein.
Can't emphasise enough that it all starts with your training, that starts the process - diet supports it.
Don't be one of those (mostly) young men flitting aimlessly around the gym with a protein shaker in their hand and doing a crappy workout!
Thanks! I’m meeting the trainer on Weds to design a program. Anything specific I should be asking/telling him? I think I’ll go for 1lb per week initially and see if I need to decrease it
A word of caution - not all trainers are the same. Entry level PT qualifications aren't very demanding and what you want may not be your trainer's speciality (ask them!). e.g. at my gym there's PTs who are bodybuilders, powerlifters, semi pro cyclists, semi pro rugby players, crossfitters.....
I wouldn't ask the 300lb powerlifter how to improve my one hour bicycle time trial speed.
Be really clear about your goals, ask to be taught the big compound lifts as a minimum, they are the foundation of your training. It's perfectly OK to pick a program designed by an expert (see list already posted) and ask your PT for help in how to follow it.
Eating back exercise calories - yes. But that doesn't have to be the MyFitnessPal style, it can also be wrapped up into your daily goal using the TDEE method. Personal preference and remember your long term weight change is your best guide to balancing out all the many estimates involved.1
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