Dangerous levels of protein recommended on myfitnesspal?
dolphin2389
Posts: 5 Member
So I have literally just started a health kick (again!) on 1st Jan 2018 that as well as dry January includes using myfitnesspal for the first time, and have marvellously already lost 4 pounds and gained some muscle too -woohoo! I quickly ended up paying the extra few quid a month to see my macronutrient distribution (as we fitness fanatics say, ahem). But I have stumbled on a confusing situation. In this blog on Jamie Oliver's site (https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-features/features/perfect-homemade-protein-shake/) a nutritionist says that we should be aiming at .0.8g of protein per kilo, which in my case would be 66g a day. But my "goals" page on myfitnesspal says that for 30% protein I should eat something like 130g? That's double. I am not a mega body builder although I have started doing weights for 40 minutes twice a week on top of my usual desultory efforts on the cross trainer - I did one two days ago, and am practically bed bound and in agony today. I must admit I have been struggling to hit that protein target of 130g even with efforts to eat more proteinanceous foods. Given that too high levels of protein can eventually damage the kidneys this is quite an important point. Anyone with knowledge out there who can enlighten me?
29
Replies
-
Myfitnesspal defaults to 20% protein, so you must have changed your macros yourself?14
-
There are so many recommendations, and even more ways to calculate needs, ane then there is the definition of needs. MFP uses percentage (the default is 20%, not 30%, btw), the WHO recommends 0.8g of protein per kilo to avoid malnutrition, bodybuilders recommend 0.8g of protein per pound for maximum muscle growth. A reasonable amount for a normal guy/gal is probably somewhere in the middle; you have to find your own sweet spot where you have energy and still eat tasty meals, where you fill all your nutritional needs but don't spend all your money in the grocery store.10
-
0.8g protein per kg is barely sufficient for a sedentary person eating at maintenance - this amount would be ok just to function like that, not ok for someone in a deficit, or training with any intensity.14
-
Science doesn't support high protein damaging non-impaired kidneys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91CxhNLmO_o
13 -
Protein needs aren't the same for everyone - the minimum RDA for a sedentary person isn't at all suitable for many on here....
If you are in a calorie deficit - higher is better.
If you do endurance cardio - more is better.
If you lift weights - more is better.
"Dangerous levels of protein recommended on myfitnesspal?"
Nope - not at all.22 -
1.5-2.2g/kg is the recommended during weight loss to maintain muscle. And there is no evidence that even higher for extended periods of time can cause harm11
-
pippakeech2389 wrote: »So I have literally just started a health kick (again!) on 1st Jan 2018 that as well as dry January includes using myfitnesspal for the first time, and have marvellously already lost 4 pounds and gained some muscle too -woohoo! I quickly ended up paying the extra few quid a month to see my macronutrient distribution (as we fitness fanatics say, ahem). But I have stumbled on a confusing situation. In this blog on Jamie Oliver's site (https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-features/features/perfect-homemade-protein-shake/) a nutritionist says that we should be aiming at .0.8g of protein per kilo, which in my case would be 66g a day. But my "goals" page on myfitnesspal says that for 30% protein I should eat something like 130g? That's double. I am not a mega body builder although I have started doing weights for 40 minutes twice a week on top of my usual desultory efforts on the cross trainer - I did one two days ago, and am practically bed bound and in agony today. I must admit I have been struggling to hit that protein target of 130g even with efforts to eat more proteinanceous foods. Given that too high levels of protein can eventually damage the kidneys this is quite an important point. Anyone with knowledge out there who can enlighten me?
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
The default for protein on MFP is 20%. If it says 30% it has been altered. Reset protein goal to 20%.
26 -
Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
Don't stop doing what you're doing though, and keep your protein higher while you're in a to help your body maintain the muscle it does have34 -
Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
OK.29 -
Our bodies do have muscle memory and even the slightest effort can get us feeling pumped up and our muscles feeling bigger. There are growing bodies of evidence that we do not need nearly as much protein as myth would have us eat. Check out Thomas Delauer's YouTube channel, it has a lot of science-based information. there was a recent Denmark study that debunks the need for copious amounts of protein to gain muscle for the average Joe. If you are an extreme athlete and/or bodybuilder powerlifter then you will need a bit more and your kidney health is an important part of that equation. I've lost 112 lbs and have gained lean muscle mass on about 80-100 grams of protein a day, which equates to .8-1gm per Kg. of my goal weight. Experiment and find what macro combination works for you and go with that because everybody's body functions at different levels. What works for me may not work for you and on and on. Also, do your own research that is the best way to know for sure what you should do.9
-
I eat up to 200g of protein per day on 3000 cals to bulk and grow muscle. In deficit it is very important so lean mass is not sacrificed and I try to get 1g/lb bodyweight, so 172g per day in three weeks when I go back to a 500 cal deficit. Also for women, especially in the menopause like I am higher protein is essential. As is resistance work/training/weight lifting in the gym...
I lift heavy, always have. I am also active at work (not sat at a desk) and in general (walk, cycle, swim and run)
So the protein levels suggested on here are just right or slightly lower for my needs. Protein and fat also help with satiation. So bear that in mind...4 -
Gaining strength is not the same thing as gaining muscle. People confuse that all the time. I lost muscle when losing, nearly everyone does, it's pretty much impossible not to, but I gained a LOT of strength.28
-
pippakeech2389 wrote: »In this blog on Jamie Oliver's site (https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-features/features/perfect-homemade-protein-shake/) a nutritionist says that we should be aiming at .0.8g of protein per kilo, which in my case would be 66g a day.
That's a minimum, not the amount it's dangerous to go above.
Here's a good article on protein from a reputable site: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/
The concern on the Jamie Oliver site seems to be people thinking they need to consume a bunch of protein shakes, and you don't, most can easily get the needed protein from food, but if you like to have some protein powder in your diet (because you use it in a way that tastes good or are avoiding some other protein sources), there's nothing wrong with it. Some do have inflated ideas of how much protein is needed, but the alternative is not deciding that more than the minimum is bad for you. And when losing weight more than the minimum is probably better, as you are more likely to lose muscle.But my "goals" page on myfitnesspal says that for 30% protein I should eat something like 130g?
Why are you aiming for 30%?
MFP uses percentages to make it easier, but they don't fit everyone. Think of the difference between a smaller woman eating 1200 to lose -- 20% is only 60 g (too little for many, for muscle maintenance). But yeah, someone bulking at 3000 will get 150, which will be more than many need.
I like .65-.85 g per healthy goal weight in lbs, which for me (120 is my goal) = 78-102 g (and I think lower than that, but not by a lot, is okay when at maintenance). BUT, as a woman in my later 40s losing muscle is a concern even at maintenance and I'd like to recomp, so those are reasons to stay within my range.
Would higher be dangerous, as in MFP's default -- 20% of my maintenance when active (2200)? No, that's 110, which I think is more than I need, but not dangerous at all. (There's no evidence that high protein is dangerous to those without kidney issues, but I would prefer to avoid super high protein as it crowds out other foods and I don't get a benefit from it personally. But even 110 g, though I see no need for it and usually don't eat that much these days just because I'm eating less meat, would not be super high protein, so saying MFP provides for that when most are eating at a deficit seems wrong to me.)5 -
Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
Increases to strength are adaptations to the central nervous system (i.e., muscle efficiency). It is rather difficult, especially for women to gain muscle. And even in a caloric surplus, women can ideally gain .25 to .5lbs per week. The difference you are seeing are, fat loss and muscle fullness; whether that is from additional water weight/blood flow to increase recovery (muscle pump) or increased glycogen from training. Is there a chance that there is muscle.. maybe, that that depends on the nature of the exercise. But just going to the gym, and seeing improvements, absolutely does not mean muscle gain.29 -
Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
Increases to strength are adaptations to the central nervous system (i.e., muscle efficiency). It is rather difficult, especially for women to gain muscle. And even in a caloric surplus, women can ideally gain .25 to .5lbs per week. The difference you are seeing are, fat loss and muscle fullness; whether that is from additional water weight/blood flow to increase recovery (muscle pump) or increased glycogen from training. Is there a chance that there is muscle.. maybe, that that depends on the nature of the exercise. But just going to the gym, and seeing improvements, absolutely does not mean muscle gain.
...and she says she's been at it since mid-December...so...
8 -
From the article mentioned above ... "Here's a good article on protein from a reputable site: " https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/
Editors note ...
If you are obese, using a protein intake relative to body weight is a bad idea. Either calculate your lean mass (overall weight after subtracting fat mass, which can be calculated by body fat percentage) or use your goal/target weight for calculations.11 -
Christine4507 wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
Increases to strength are adaptations to the central nervous system (i.e., muscle efficiency). It is rather difficult, especially for women to gain muscle. And even in a caloric surplus, women can ideally gain .25 to .5lbs per week. The difference you are seeing are, fat loss and muscle fullness; whether that is from additional water weight/blood flow to increase recovery (muscle pump) or increased glycogen from training. Is there a chance that there is muscle.. maybe, that that depends on the nature of the exercise. But just going to the gym, and seeing improvements, absolutely does not mean muscle gain.
Yeah. Talk to my doctor's. I saw him on December 2nd. Went back on January 11th to change the medication that was having bad side effects. He agrees with everything I've just said. But, glad so many people can diagnose people and understand their complex bodies just through a couple forum comments. Wish I had that ability!
You went to see your doctor about changing medication and talked about whether or not you were gaining muscle when you had started a new workout routine? And he said you were building muscle while eating in a calorie deficit? It's actually you that has superpowers!33 -
Yeah, that's why I always recommend using a healthy goal weight (or current weight if it's a healthy weight).0
-
WinoGelato wrote: »You went to see your doctor about changing medication and talked about whether or not you were gaining muscle when you had started a new workout routine? And he said you were building muscle while eating in a calorie deficit? It's actually you that has superpowers!
Having a supply of fat to burn for energy is not a superpower. Dietary calorie deficit does not mean you have a total energy deficit. If your diet is providing sufficient protein and micronutrients, you're doing the work, and you have fat reserves above the healthy functioning range, it is entirely possible to add muscle mass while eating under TDEE and losing overall weight. The gains will be a fraction of the fat mass that is burned to achieve them, but they are there.
I will agree, however, that increases in actual muscle tissue are not going to be very visible in a short period of time, but on the other hand it was pointed out that strength training does pump additional fluid and glycogen into the existing tissue -which makes it visibly larger- even if there's no (or very small) net gain in LBM.
Most people who see an increase in muscle volume and strength are going to interpret that as building muscle. Those no need to nit-pick and poo-poo them over whether or not those gains actually represent an increase in tissue mass.
14 -
Christine4507 wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
Increases to strength are adaptations to the central nervous system (i.e., muscle efficiency). It is rather difficult, especially for women to gain muscle. And even in a caloric surplus, women can ideally gain .25 to .5lbs per week. The difference you are seeing are, fat loss and muscle fullness; whether that is from additional water weight/blood flow to increase recovery (muscle pump) or increased glycogen from training. Is there a chance that there is muscle.. maybe, that that depends on the nature of the exercise. But just going to the gym, and seeing improvements, absolutely does not mean muscle gain.
Yeah. Talk to my doctor's. I saw him on December 2nd. Went back on January 11th to change the medication that was having bad side effects. He agrees with everything I've just said. But, glad so many people can diagnose people and understand their complex bodies just through a couple forum comments. Wish I had that ability!
Doctors aren't geniuses. My Doctor doesn't know the first thing about nutrition or body building. He thought I should go lower weights so I didn't get bulky.
Strength and muscle growth are different. You can and do gain strength without gaining muscle.28 -
Christine4507 wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Seeing more definition means you've lost fat - well done! It doesn't necessarily mean you've gained muscle, nor does getting stronger...
There are different types of definition. For example, when you flex your arm and can feel the muscle and see the muscle and it is way different from before when you would flex your arm. That's muscle, not fat loss. And when you can pick up those 50lb boxes with no issue when just two months ago you always needed a team lift. That's muscle, not fat loss. When you are at the gym using weights and you notice that the weight and reps you are doing is not as hard so you add another 5 lbs to the resistance to feel the same burn/fatigue, that's muscle, not fat loss.
I get what both of you are trying to say to the OP...but it is so incredibly irritating to try to have productive conversations on these boards just to have people answer in a slightly condescending voice to imply you are wrong, without ever even asking for further clarification! People just assume they know every detail of your habits and how your body looks by the three sentences you wrote.
Increases to strength are adaptations to the central nervous system (i.e., muscle efficiency). It is rather difficult, especially for women to gain muscle. And even in a caloric surplus, women can ideally gain .25 to .5lbs per week. The difference you are seeing are, fat loss and muscle fullness; whether that is from additional water weight/blood flow to increase recovery (muscle pump) or increased glycogen from training. Is there a chance that there is muscle.. maybe, that that depends on the nature of the exercise. But just going to the gym, and seeing improvements, absolutely does not mean muscle gain.
Yeah. Talk to my doctor's. I saw him on December 2nd. Went back on January 11th to change the medication that was having bad side effects. He agrees with everything I've just said. But, glad so many people can diagnose people and understand their complex bodies just through a couple forum comments. Wish I had that ability!
Have you done multiple hydrostatic or dexa scans? If not, your doctor is guessing or doesnt have a clue, which is understandable since they have little to no education in training and nutrition.20 -
Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Gee, I just asked how the OP figured they gained muscle in 12 days with a not super vigorous sounding program to find out if they had some measurement done or something to decide they had actually gained muscle in so short a time period. I did not actually tell them they were wrong or lecture them in my post. How is asking how they figured something being salty or condescending?
Why you gotta read a negative tone into a simple question?
No one has ever called me salty before. I feel more interesting.38 -
Christine4507 wrote: »
Have you done multiple hydrostatic or dexa scans? If not, your doctor is guessing or doesnt have a clue, which is understandable since they have little to no education in training and nutrition.WinoGelato wrote: »
You went to see your doctor about changing medication and talked about whether or not you were gaining muscle when you had started a new workout routine? And he said you were building muscle while eating in a calorie deficit? It's actually you that has superpowers!
Doctors aren't geniuses. My Doctor doesn't know the first thing about nutrition or body building. He thought I should go lower weights so I didn't get bulky.
You all really need to stop making assumptions about people you don't know! My primary doctor apparently has "little to no education in training and nutrition." Yeah, his training is Gastroenterology. He's also the most sought after doctor in this clinic, which happens to be repeatedly rated as one of the top 3 clinics in the United States and one of the top 10 clinics worldwide for my particular condition, which falls under neurogastroenterology. The majority of the most effective treatments that have been found for treating this condition are lifestyle related...aka diet and exercise, mainly. There are also three clinical dietitian specialists and two occupational therapists who work at this same clinic and work as a team to care for patients with this condition. I've seen one of those nutritionists twice as part of my therapy with my primary doctor in the two years I've been a primary patient. Sorry you guys have some cruddy doctors and clinics, but don't make the mistake of assuming that's the case for everyone.
My December appointment was my last of my 4 regularly scheduled appointments of the year. I had a full work-up and we discussed many things, one of them being my desire to take the actions they've always suggested, which was regular cardio and strength training plus changing my diet. Because I am part of a multi-year lifestyle research study, we had a thorough appointment. I was there two hours and that doesn't include being sent for my physical early (should have been February) to gauge my health before making these changes. I went back in this January because after a month on this higher dosage of my medication, I was noticing several of the warning signs they told me to look for. So they changed the dose after checking me out, and we further discussed my health goals and progress.
The biggest problem these forums have is that people take THEIR pre-concieved notions and apply it to what other people are saying as if it is fact. Apparently my doctors are quacks because you've had some bad experiences. That's your pre-concieved notion of doctors. Apparently it is impossible for me to gain any muscle because you haven't experienced that. That's your pre-concieved notion about fat and muscle based on YOUR body and whatever "research" you've done. Apparently when someone says "I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December" that means that I'm starting from an absolute couch potato and it is hilarious that I might see changes in my body after a mere month. That's YOUR pre-concieved notion of what "serious" means based on your lifestyle and has nothing to do with MY lifestyle.
Actually, you should probably take a step back and take a breath (especially since you came into this thread making assumptions and saying people are "salty"). I never said one couldn't gain muscle in a deficit. In fact, I firmly believe one can do that, but it's not something that happens quickly (like you suggest), nor does it happen unless one is under certain conditions (non aggressive calorie deficit, adequate protein, adequate volume and frequency of lifting). That is what the science states.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611633/gaining-muscle-in-a-deficit/p1
Basically, what I would get out of your post, is that you do not have any quantifiable data to support your claims of "muscle gains". And guess what, most of us do not either. As much as I would have liked to say I gained muscle, I can't with confidence say that. Is it possible, sure, because I have gained an inch in my biceps, but that doesn't always means that was muscle growth. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter as long as you are happy with your results.
For your strength training program, what are you even doing? What moves are you focused on? Is it a split or full body? Are their deloads or is it periodized to ensure progressive overload?
Personally, I run a 4 day Upper Lower Split that consists of two strength and two hypertrophy days. Strength days are focused on lower reps (3 to 5 for the core lifts, 6-10 for accessories) and hypertrophy days are higher reps (8-12 for the core lifts, 12 to 20 for accessories). The base of the program is based on DeadLift, Squat, Bench and Press; the main purpose is this maximizes muscle recruitment with the least amount of time required to lift. In fact, the below link should allow you to view the focused program.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6t63TSpf1SAZDhCSTBFcE93Xy1UT2hRd2tHRVcxd3pUcVVn
This was designed to specifically address my goals and my lifting partners goals. It incorporates moves that we enjoy and moves that are difficult for both of us. He seems to favor higher rep work, while I favor lower rep work. I suspect this is due to a difference in the make up of our muscle fibers.23 -
Christine4507 wrote: »
You say you lost 4 lbs and gained muscle. You are lifting weights for 40 minutes twice a week and using a cross trainer sometimes in the last 12 days since Jan 1. How do you figure you gained muscle in that time?
Why you gotta be so salty?!
It's fairly easy to tell when you are gaining muscle. You can see it and feel it. I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December and I started noticing at about three weeks. I'm not doing intense daily workouts or severely undercutting my calories, either, as I am going for slow long-term sustainable changes. I could see more definition in my arms and legs. It was getting steadily easier lifting the heavy boxes and bags of compost at work, which I had previously struggled with every day for over a year. Etc, etc. That's muscle.
Gee, I just asked how the OP figured they gained muscle in 12 days with a not super vigorous sounding program to find out if they had some measurement done or something to decide they had actually gained muscle in so short a time period. I did not actually tell them they were wrong or lecture them in my post. How is asking how they figured something being salty or condescending?
Why you gotta read a negative tone into a simple question?
No one has ever called me salty before. I feel more interesting.
15 -
I'm not sure if we're still on the original subject anymore but I eat an average of 100g of protein a day. I'm 66kg so I should be aiming for 53g of protein. Like others said pretty sure 0.8g/kg is more of a minimum. I love me some chicken and tuna. My 180g of chicken and can of tuna alone would be 66g of protein. I would be so sad if that was all the protein I could eat
5 -
Christine4507 wrote: »
Have you done multiple hydrostatic or dexa scans? If not, your doctor is guessing or doesnt have a clue, which is understandable since they have little to no education in training and nutrition.WinoGelato wrote: »
You went to see your doctor about changing medication and talked about whether or not you were gaining muscle when you had started a new workout routine? And he said you were building muscle while eating in a calorie deficit? It's actually you that has superpowers!
Doctors aren't geniuses. My Doctor doesn't know the first thing about nutrition or body building. He thought I should go lower weights so I didn't get bulky.
You all really need to stop making assumptions about people you don't know! My primary doctor apparently has "little to no education in training and nutrition." Yeah, his training is Gastroenterology. He's also the most sought after doctor in this clinic, which happens to be repeatedly rated as one of the top 3 clinics in the United States and one of the top 10 clinics worldwide for my particular condition, which falls under neurogastroenterology. The majority of the most effective treatments that have been found for treating this condition are lifestyle related...aka diet and exercise, mainly. There are also three clinical dietitian specialists and two occupational therapists who work at this same clinic and work as a team to care for patients with this condition. I've seen one of those nutritionists twice as part of my therapy with my primary doctor in the two years I've been a primary patient. Sorry you guys have some cruddy doctors and clinics, but don't make the mistake of assuming that's the case for everyone.
My December appointment was my last of my 4 regularly scheduled appointments of the year. I had a full work-up and we discussed many things, one of them being my desire to take the actions they've always suggested, which was regular cardio and strength training plus changing my diet. Because I am part of a multi-year lifestyle research study, we had a thorough appointment. I was there two hours and that doesn't include being sent for my physical early (should have been February) to gauge my health before making these changes. I went back in this January because after a month on this higher dosage of my medication, I was noticing several of the warning signs they told me to look for. So they changed the dose after checking me out, and we further discussed my health goals and progress.
The biggest problem these forums have is that people take THEIR pre-concieved notions and apply it to what other people are saying as if it is fact. Apparently my doctors are quacks because you've had some bad experiences. That's your pre-concieved notion of doctors. Apparently it is impossible for me to gain any muscle because you haven't experienced that. That's your pre-concieved notion about fat and muscle based on YOUR body and whatever "research" you've done. Apparently when someone says "I've only been at my fitness and health regime seriously since mid-December" that means that I'm starting from an absolute couch potato and it is hilarious that I might see changes in my body after a mere month. That's YOUR pre-concieved notion of what "serious" means based on your lifestyle and has nothing to do with MY lifestyle.
Absolutely none of this suggests that your doctor would be able to tell that you had gained muscle.
In any case, you are hijacking OP's thread.
Back to protein!
OP, are you feeling more comfortable with the MFP default? Do you remember how to change the protein goal, since it does seem likely that 30% at your current calorie goal is more than you need?19 -
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/3/738 The actual scientific data.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127132741.htm Easy to understand.
This above study was conducted on young overweight men. They hope to do the study with women. Problem with women is we don't easily build muscle. Hence why we don't get suppah bulky. It takes very hard work. Also, to point out that in the stated research these men were put under conditions that were not normal and hard to maintain at an everyday normal person level. Their lives were eat, sleep, diet and exercise supervised by professionals on a daily basis. But it was done in four weeks. So it is possible to gain muscle in four weeks under certain conditions. Kinda like a perfect storm.
There is proof that when beginning a lifting routine there are noob gains. There is also proof that we all have muscle memory that is triggered when we begin lifting again. There will also be a plateau eventually.7 -
I eat 150 grams+ a day; that is not an unhealthy amount for me. Kidney function and all bloodwork is normal.
If you are worried, consult your dr (especially if you have any medical conditions).3 -
pippakeech2389 wrote: »a nutritionist says that we should be aiming at .0.8g of protein per kilo, which in my case would be 66g a day. But my "goals" page on myfitnesspal says that for 30% protein I should eat something like 130g? That's double. I am not a mega body builder although I have started doing weights
As has already been mentioned, 0.8g per kg of body weight is just a basic need level for the average (not obese) sedentary to lightly active person. It will provide a general level of good health under those conditions and is neither a bare survival minimum, nor is it adequate for a highly active/athletic person. The guideline for those looking to gain muscle with strength training is 0.8 to 1gram of protein per -pound of lean body mass-. This will indeed be about double the less active guide, as a pound is roughly .45 of a kilogram. Serious competitive body builders will go even higher.
I personally am getting ready to start a training program that will focus heavily on strength , so I've set my macros to match up with 1g protein daily per pound of my goal Lean Body Mass. This meshes up with 30% of a 2500 calorie diet for me.
I, too, have been having some difficulty hitting my protein target. Having type2 diabetes, I'm also set for low(er) carbs at 20% net carbs(or less). The combination is tough because there seems to be a limited range of foods that meet both goals without having enough fat to end up over my calorie target. And the range of foods within that range aren't necessarily ones that I desire to consume in that quantity in that these high protein, low fat, low carb foods are quite filling. It would be nice to find something that is also low in volume. About the best I've come up with so far is non-fat Greek yogurt. I get the plain and doctor it up using Splenda as a sweetener so I don't add carbs/calories. Cocoa powder, vanilla extract, and frozen berries have all been tasty additions with the Splenda.
Likely I will end up getting some protein powder to make it easier to reach my macro targets.
2 -
Thanks for the video fuzzylop and also interesting science angel7472. It is true that doctors in UK are not trained in the minutiae of nutrition - I should know as I am one. I am trained in how to interpret science papers though so shall spend some time checking these sources out. It seems that a higher protein intake will help me get more toned (I dare not say musclier in view of the fights going on oop there) but no-one has mentioned it making you fuller. The thing that I find challenging is knowing what the percentages really mean - 50% carbs - why? Who says? And what foods are these? It's fun, but quite specialised. I would be surprised if a British gastroenterologist knew much about it either because this ain't medicine, this is nutrition baby!!! Which I am considering doing a masters in from September. So give us a break with the doctor slamming - believe me in the UK we are becoming a rare and lesser spotted breed and yes, Christ knows why I expect sympathy from this bunch of hyenas.15
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions